RV Drivers License

[Maxzd]

In the province of British Columbia (Canada) it's required by law to have a special drivers license to tow anything over 4600kg or 10,000+lbs.

After a couple of years of managing weight in my trailer to stay under this limit I decided to finally write the test and go for a road test to get this towing endorsement.

The written test was 25 questions some RV related. That gets you a learner license to drive with a qualified instructor or someone with same designation license or better. You have one year to book a driving test which is about half hour pre-trip inspection and half hour road test. The pre trip required committing everything they believe needs to be checked to memory. A half hour of me describing every action and observation listening to the sound of my own voice was a real treat!

I passed but had a couple of misses on the Pre trip. One which I keep shaking my head - I would never think to check a ladder which is bolted to the back of an RV. Not every RV ladder is permanent, I guess that is why it is a separate check..

So my question to the folks out there. How many of you hold a special license to drive or tow an RV? Does your area have any restrictions or conditions?

[Festus2]

Maxzd -
While an endorsement is required by law, it is rarely if ever, enforced. I've spoken with dozens of BC RVers who exceed the 10000 lb restriction but do not have an endorsement. Many do not even know that such a requirement exists - some do but can't be bothered to take the test.

Until such time as this law is enforced, it is essentially meaningless - until such time as you are involved in an accident at which time you better have deep pockets and a good lawyer to get you out of deep ka-ka.

Like BC, I think most states and provinces have some sort of restrictions and the 10000 lb limit seems to be a common figure.

[Maxzd]

Originally Posted by Festus2

Maxzd -
While an endorsement is required by law, it is rarely if ever, enforced. I've spoken with dozens of BC RVers who exceed the 10000 lb restriction but do not have an endorsement. Many do not even know that such a requirement exists - some do but can't be bothered to take the test.

Until such time as this law is enforced, it is essentially meaningless - until such time as you are involved in an accident at which time you better have deep pockets and a good lawyer to get you out of deep ka-ka.

Like BC, I think most states and provinces have some sort of restrictions and the 10000 lb limit seems to be a common figure.

You are correct that many RVers do not know the requirement exists. Definitely one of the reasons I was interested in hearing from others.

Your point about insurance is arguably more concerning than any fines that an RV owner could be issued for being over the 10,000lbs. It is left up to the individual to know the actual weight of the RV at time of towing and requirements for adequate licensing. No dealer will talk you out of buying a large trailer because a license is required. No insurance agent mentions license requirement even though the weight of the trailer is required on insurance papers. Surprising as insurance and licensing are basically the same outfit in BC.

Here is a key excerpt from the insurance corp of BC (icbc) booklet titled: "Towing a Recreational Trailer - What Every Driver Towing a Recreational Trailer Should Know".

Warning: "It is your responsibility to ensure you have the appropriate driver's licence and driving skills for the trailer you are towing. Without the proper licence, you may be in breach of your insurance policy in the event of a crash. Your insurance claim may be denied including claims for your own injuries, or damage that you might cause to your vehicle or to other people or property. You may then be responsible for paying these costs".

Knowing my trailer with cargo can easily exceed 10,000lbs, I feel better not having to second guess what i want to bring along now.

[Avofarmer66]

I want to thank all who have responded to and commented on the Calif. Recreational Veh and Trailer licensing.

The Calif state does require an endorsement on your Class C license if your 5er is under 15000 lb. and my Farmers Insurance agent said I could be at risk of NO Accident Coverage if the insurer determins I'm not properly licensed.
Over 15000 lb. requires a Non-commerical class A license written and driving test.

Took the test today, there was some comfusion at the DMV in Escondido but I had called Sacremento DMV to claify the testing requirements and after 3 Escondido clerks had their discussion, I took the (20 question test #656) Not difficult...

Read the 44 page book #DL648 found on the web @ dmv.ca.gov.

O!!! stopped at Camping World on the way home to pick up some black streak remover and took some time to talk to a Montana saleperson. They know nothing about licenseing and do not advise their customers as to proper or required licensing.

SOOOO buy a new 5er pull out on the street get hit, found at fault... to bad so sad!!!

[crash]

In Va. there are no endorsments for rvs, but I have always kept my CDL class A lic,just incase I need to go back driving a semi.

[michael]

I have my cdl im lic for everything except school bus, doubles, and i let my haz mat go because i never haul anything to justifie keeping it.
For the folks out there that dont have any endorsements are they driveing illegaly thru thoes states that require it ?. So getting into Canada you need passport and the rv endorsment ?. Its odd that people dont find out they need it until they are in a jam. But an easy way out for the insurance co.

[jtyphoid]

8000 lbs might be the curb weight of a 350/3500 dually, but the laws are talking about GVWR. My F350 SRW is rated at 11,000 lb, so a dually will certainly be more than that.

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by jtyphoid

8000 lbs might be the curb weight of a 350/3500 dually, but the laws are talking about GVWR. My F350 SRW is rated at 11,000 lb, so a dually will certainly be more than that.

That was what I was saying - the base weight of the truck - 8000 lbs, the weight of your truck and RV fully loaded probably won't be over the 26,000 pound GVWR. I'm not sure what the heaviest Keystone 5ver is and it's gross capacity, but it looks right at 16,000 pounds, so you could load up your truck with about 1900 pounds of people and gear and still be less than 26,000. Looking at the Dodge Ram - that's what I have, even for the dually's there are only a few that even have a GCWR of more than 26,000 pounds, with most below 21,000 pounds.

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/201...ammlup3500.pdf

Not sure about the Fords or GM models, but I would have to imagine their similar.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

That was what I was saying - the base weight of the truck - 8000 lbs, the weight of your truck and RV fully loaded probably won't be over the 26,000 pound GVWR. I'm not sure what the heaviest Keystone 5ver is and it's gross capacity, but it looks right at 16,000 pounds, so you could load up your truck with about 1900 pounds of people and gear and still be less than 26,000. Looking at the Dodge Ram - that's what I have, even for the dually's there are only a few that even have a GCWR of more than 26,000 pounds, with most below 21,000 pounds.

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/201...ammlup3500.pdf

Not sure about the Fords or GM models, but I would have to imagine their similar.

Doesn't matter what it's loaded to - actual weight is irrelevant. GVWR is its "weight".

[Javi]

Originally Posted by SAD

Doesn't matter what it's loaded to - actual weight is irrelevant. GVWR is its "weight".

This... and in Texas the 26K don't matter what the truck is... if the trailer is over 10K you need a class A.

[Pmedic4]

Originally Posted by SAD

Doesn't matter what it's loaded to - actual weight is irrelevant. GVWR is its "weight".

The statement is the Illinois Driver classification book says:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

So, the law very clearly says for a Class B license "not in excess of 10,000 pounds" for the trailer, not GVWR. But it would probably be a big exception for the state to weigh an RV, but in an accident I'm sure your insurance company might question your classification, as I've seen someone say before.

You highlight the odd part of the Illinois( and probably other states because they follow the national guidelines) license classification for fifthwheel owners: Under 26,000 GVWR has no mention of trailer(Class C), Over 26,000 pounds GVWR(Class B) has the above mentioned restriction of 10,000 pound trailer weight. So, if you go buy the big heavy duty 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 30,000, for your ALPINE or Montana, you need to get a Class A license. Seems the permutations are endless, but the good part, is that all you have to do for a RV driver, license upgrade is take a written test and driving test with the vehicle/trailer combo. Nothing serious like the CDL requirements.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

The statement is the Illinois Driver classification book says:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

So, the law very clearly says for a Class B license "not in excess of 10,000 pounds" for the trailer, not GVWR. But it would probably be a big exception for the state to weigh an RV, but in an accident I'm sure your insurance company might question your classification, as I've seen someone say before.

You highlight the odd part of the Illinois( and probably other states because they follow the national guidelines) license classification for fifthwheel owners: Under 26,000 GVWR has no mention of trailer(Class C), Over 26,000 pounds GVWR(Class B) has the above mentioned restriction of 10,000 pound trailer weight. So, if you go buy the big heavy duty 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 30,000, for your ALPINE or Montana, you need to get a Class A license. Seems the permutations are endless, but the good part, is that all you have to do for a RV driver, license upgrade is take a written test and driving test with the vehicle/trailer combo. Nothing serious like the CDL requirements.

That book is not the law. That book is a paraphrased guide book.

In my state, the guide book has similar statements... So does the back of my license for that matter.... However, Oklahoma Title 47 is "the law" and is a bit more specific than that.

Not saying you're right. Not saying you're wrong.... All I'm saying is understand the true law. The whole thing.... Including definitions section and scope.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

The statement is the Illinois Driver classification book says:

Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.

So, the law very clearly says for a Class B license "not in excess of 10,000 pounds" for the trailer, not GVWR. But it would probably be a big exception for the state to weigh an RV, but in an accident I'm sure your insurance company might question your classification, as I've seen someone say before.

You highlight the odd part of the Illinois( and probably other states because they follow the national guidelines) license classification for fifthwheel owners: Under 26,000 GVWR has no mention of trailer(Class C), Over 26,000 pounds GVWR(Class B) has the above mentioned restriction of 10,000 pound trailer weight. So, if you go buy the big heavy duty 3500 DRW with a GVWR of 30,000, for your ALPINE or Montana, you need to get a Class A license. Seems the permutations are endless, but the good part, is that all you have to do for a RV driver, license upgrade is take a written test and driving test with the vehicle/trailer combo. Nothing serious like the CDL requirements.

I don't know about your book but the one we have in Texas gets a lot of RV owners in trouble because they don't read the complete text. If you only read the section for class A or B it appears that unless the combined GCWR is in excess of 26K you don't need the classification, BUT read the section of class C that I've highlighted it throws a big kink in that thinking.

Class A Driver License
A Class A driver license permits a person to drive:
1. Any vehicle or combination of vehicles described under a Class B or Class C driver license; and
2. A vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001
lbs. or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess

of 10,000 lbs.

Class B Driver License
A Class B driver license permits a person to drive:
1. Any vehicle included in Class C;
2. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more and any such vehicle towing either a vehicle with a GVWR that does not exceed 10,000 lbs. or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lbs.; and

3. A bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more including the driver.

Class C Driver License
A Class C driver license permits a person to drive:
1. A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that are not included in Class A or Class B; and
2. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 26,001 lbs. towing a trailer not to exceed 10,000 lbs. GVWR or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lbs.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by ctpd814

The .04 limit is for operating a commercial vehicle. The limit is still .08 even if you have a cdl if you are not operating a commercial vehicle.

It is zero tolerance while operating a commercial vehicle. It is .04 for a commercial driver otherwise.

I believe I misspoke. Sorry. I will research a bit further, I think the zero tolerance is they sit you for 24 hours with any detection of alcohol. .04 is DWI.

[allmi01]

I don't want to start a flame war but all vehicles that can tow have a GCWR specified by the manufacturer. It's in the owners manual. This is in addition to the GVWR and GAWR ratings on the sticker on the door post.

Most if us (yes I am guilty) don't bother to read this section in the owners manual or towing supplement but it is there.

The trick is that the Illinois law states over 26,000 GCWR is class B / class A territory as I remember it. That is why I decided to go the class A route due to the GCWR of my F350 even though my current TT is 10,000 GVWR. Future 5th wheels will definitely be over the 10,000 limit so I figured to do this once and be done.

Now the big question, will the Sec State folks at the DL facility consider my current rig of the proper class for the class A test? We'll see I guess.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by allmi01

I don't want to start a flame war but all vehicles that can tow have a GCWR specified by the manufacturer. It's in the owners manual. This is in addition to the GVWR and GAWR ratings on the sticker on the door post.

Most if us (yes I am guilty) don't bother to read this section in the owners manual or towing supplement but it is there.

The trick is that the Illinois law states over 26,000 GCWR is class B / class A territory as I remember it. That is why I decided to go the class A route due to the GCWR of my F350 even though my current TT is 10,000 GVWR. Future 5th wheels will definitely be over the 10,000 limit so I figured to do this once and be done.

Now the big question, will the Sec State folks at the DL facility consider my current rig of the proper class for the class A test? We'll see I guess.

I do not want to start a flame war either. I just want to help you understand where you are mis-understandthing things.

Your owners manual GCWR is not recognized by any authority. It is not "real". It is for manufacturer recommendation and warranty purposes only. Your vehicle has NO recongized GCWR.

If you read through the vehicle code, you will likely find that it accounts for this fact - something paraphrased as, "in the absence of a GCWR, the sum total of the GVWR plus the GTWR will apply"...

Suppose you drive a SRW 1T with a GVWR of 11K.

Pull a 5000 GTWR utility trailer and your GCWR is recognized as 16K (11K GVWR plus the 5K GTWR)

Take that same 1T and pull a 14K GTWR 5er and your GCWR is 25K.

[diugo]

Originally Posted by SAD

Your owners manual GCWR is not recognized by any authority. It is not "real". It is for manufacturer recommendation and warranty purposes only. Your vehicle has NO recongized GCWR.

That may be the case at the moment, but there is obviously interest in getting the GCWR onto the placard:

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...cwr-definition