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Old 07-18-2023, 07:31 AM   #21
SargeW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindy46 View Post
We had a similar situation with a Grand Design transcend we bought new in 2020. One problem after another. We were permanently set up in a park and couldn't take it in for service. GD wouldn't pay for mobile service calls so I ended up making most repairs myself. Seems like I spent all my time at the camper doing repairs, no time to enjoy camping. I wrote a 5 page letter to the President of GD stating that we got a lemon and asked for a refund or replacement. They would do nothing. I ended up repairing all known problems and sold the unit. I would never buy a new unit again. We now have a used 2019 unit and I fixed a few minor problems when we first got it, but for the most part we haven't had any problems on our our trips since then. Enjoying camping again!
I understand your frustration, but buying used isn't always the answer either. I moderate on a major RV forum, and monitor several others. Sometimes the "gently used" unit that you buy is just another "problem child" that someone else had dumped (like yours).

Either way, I'm glad that it's working out for you.
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Old 07-18-2023, 09:54 AM   #22
wiredgeorge
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I have a 2002 Cougar and have not faced the quality issues the OP had. Most of the things I have needed to fix were old age related (plastic crumble), a slide motor (worn out) but not a lot more. The roof was totally replaced with an RV-Armor roof so I don't spend much time on the roof. Now if I got the urge to buy a new camper from a dealer, seems these days it more like buying a course in RV repair and patience.

I think the decision to buy a used camper should better be made by someone who has owned campers and knows what to look for as far as old damage, possible repairs, etc. A first time buyer should likely hire an inspection by a reputable tech if buying used. Heck, if buying new, a reputable tech's inspection might prove worthwhile if the dealer would allow it. Give the dealer a laundry list of fixes before signing might be a good idea.
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Old 07-18-2023, 02:31 PM   #23
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Agree the quality is lacking for sure!

I've owned two 2021 Bullets. The first was manufactured I think in early 2020 as we bought it in Sept 2020. The second was purchased in Sept 2021. To me there is a huge gap in the quality of the finishings...although essentially the trim, cabinets, etc are all the same. (we upgraded since we wanted a separate bunk room for the grandchildren). Anyways there isn't one "area" of the trailer that I haven't worked on. Some are not big fixes, but I can't justify hooking up the trailer to go to the dealer and wait for the back/forth to get approval to fix it. If it isn't fixed...then the small problem could become a large problem. But when you sit on the couch and look at small things that you didn't notice before...like someone using a finish nailer as if it was a machine gun to attach a small trip piece...come on.



Anyways I've learned the following from my experiences:


1. I don't think I will every buy a "service plan" again as they are useless....my unit would be on the lot 80% of the time "waiting to be fixed".



2. All my friends that want to "get into RVing", unless they are handy I just tell them don't bother...at least now.


3. Although I had planned on "upgrading again":
  • I will probably not buy a Keystone product unless some known authority puts them closer to the top of the list of "quality".
  • I probably will not use the dealer I've used in the last two purchases unless they step up to the plate on "solving a slide issue" (I know the issue but don't want to make the modifications necessary). So it will be a test of not only the dealer but the dealer/keystone relationship.
  • I am balking at buying another trailer as once I've worked through the slide issue, I think there really isn't anything else that needs modification.
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Old 07-18-2023, 03:23 PM   #24
wiredgeorge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
I've owned two 2021 Bullets. The first was manufactured I think in early 2020 as we bought it in Sept 2020. The second was purchased in Sept 2021. To me there is a huge gap in the quality of the finishings...although essentially the trim, cabinets, etc are all the same. (we upgraded since we wanted a separate bunk room for the grandchildren). Anyways there isn't one "area" of the trailer that I haven't worked on. Some are not big fixes, but I can't justify hooking up the trailer to go to the dealer and wait for the back/forth to get approval to fix it. If it isn't fixed...then the small problem could become a large problem. But when you sit on the couch and look at small things that you didn't notice before...like someone using a finish nailer as if it was a machine gun to attach a small trip piece...come on.



Anyways I've learned the following from my experiences:


1. I don't think I will every buy a "service plan" again as they are useless....my unit would be on the lot 80% of the time "waiting to be fixed".



2. All my friends that want to "get into RVing", unless they are handy I just tell them don't bother...at least now.


3. Although I had planned on "upgrading again":
  • I will probably not buy a Keystone product unless some known authority puts them closer to the top of the list of "quality".
  • I probably will not use the dealer I've used in the last two purchases unless they step up to the plate on "solving a slide issue" (I know the issue but don't want to make the modifications necessary). So it will be a test of not only the dealer but the dealer/keystone relationship.
  • I am balking at buying another trailer as once I've worked through the slide issue, I think there really isn't anything else that needs modification.
Read 'em and weep! Look at the 5th wheel and bumper pull rankings! Keystone #1 out of 27 5th wheel ranking and #3 out of 14 bumper pull. Only Airstream and Winnebago were higher in the bumper pull rankings.

Them be experts that rank these campers....

https://rvbrands.org/best-rv-brands/
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Old 07-19-2023, 06:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Read 'em and weep! Look at the 5th wheel and bumper pull rankings! Keystone #1 out of 27 5th wheel ranking and #3 out of 14 bumper pull. Only Airstream and Winnebago were higher in the bumper pull rankings.

Them be experts that rank these campers....

https://rvbrands.org/best-rv-brands/

Its interesting...in the summary they rank Grand Design as a leader, but it isn't on the rank list? Maybe they are like Behr paint...they just make/sell more units and have influence due to self justification?


My next purchase will be an interesting one for sure as I'm probably going to understand the manufacturer->dealer->parts relationship better. Although this is the need/justification for this forum you get much better information/knowledge from here than any interaction with Keystone or the dealers I've been to.
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Old 07-19-2023, 08:27 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
Its interesting...in the summary they rank Grand Design as a leader, but it isn't on the rank list? Maybe they are like Behr paint...they just make/sell more units and have influence due to self justification?


My next purchase will be an interesting one for sure as I'm probably going to understand the manufacturer->dealer->parts relationship better. Although this is the need/justification for this forum you get much better information/knowledge from here than any interaction with Keystone or the dealers I've been to.
I am a member of a couple Ford truck forums. Chevy/GMC or Ram are the ENEMIES. People hate them. The interesting thing about this forum is that i have never heard anyone claim Keystone is some sort of superior product. Now when someone is asked about their television or tires, brand loyalties will reflect who owns what and everyone owns the finest. Never heard anyone bash another trailer manufacturer here as I think most of us understand that most coming off the line are pretty decent workmanship and a few not so good.

When a new member comes on and rants and calls out Keystone, I have found this happens on almost all brand forums. I posted that list of "best of 2022" as a joke as the author probably doesn't have any positive proof that Keystone or XYZ is in any way a better buy. Almost all manufacturers use the same materials and appliances and the same workforce goes from one factory to the other. Perhaps there is a higher quality manufacturer. If so, I have never seen it but then again, I ain't seen it all.
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Old 06-09-2024, 09:02 AM   #27
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We havenít had any issues except the danged toilet starts leaking every time we go out camping. Weíve had it in the shop 4 times now with them replacing the toilet the last time. Weíre out now and the toilet is once again leaking from the base.
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Old 06-09-2024, 09:31 AM   #28
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Where do you see the water? Is it at the floor or the toilet lip where the mounting bolts are? Where is the water showing up, left side, right side, front, back?
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Old 06-09-2024, 04:33 PM   #29
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You are not alone. I had over 80 issues my first year of ownership with my Keystone Montana High Country fifth wheel. Many of those issues I fixed myself. But things like the entrance door with a gap big enough to stick your finger through and the door frame in the bed room simply fell off the wall, and brakes that went bad because the springs inside them actually broke were all things bigger than I could deal with. (there were many). But the rest I fixed myself.

Year 2 of the camper, not a single problem. Year 3 onward, it's been a constant steady slow list of wear and tear issues. So far, everything I can fix myself.

The bottom line is... your camper will never be 100%. There will always be something breaking or wearing. It's a never ending repair job. NEVER ending!

Welcome to RV 101!
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Old 06-10-2024, 09:32 AM   #30
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Yep, the best thing you can do for yourself is to inspect all areas of the RV on a regular basis. Catching stuff that may need an adjustment now, can prevent a more in depth repair later. I'm headed out now to investigate some sewer dump valve issues (joy). But better now than when I'm on the road traveling and something fails.
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Old 06-10-2024, 09:42 AM   #31
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Went to the Tampa RV show on Saturday and discovered Alliance RV's, and I was impressed with the materials and incorporated upgrades, while still cheaper than a GD TT with similar amenities.
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