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Old 02-16-2021, 09:52 PM   #1
Skyband1
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Frozen pipes

I have a 2015 Passport Ultralite that is all season equipped. I live in it and when the temperature gets down to below freezing the pipes freeze, even if I am heating the interior. I need to find a schematic of the water lines so I can better insulate or heat them, but I can't seem to find one. Does anyone know where to find it?
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:08 PM   #2
travelin texans
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You won't find schematics for any of the systems on your Passport or any other model in the Thor stable of rvs.
Also by now you've figured out that any cute gimmicky all season name rv manufacturers give their RVs it's just that, a sales gimmick.
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Old 02-17-2021, 03:46 AM   #3
Gary Rivers
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I have a Keystone springdale with enclosed bottom. I found that they ran my pex lines along the support beam closest to the water inlet. These lines are against the steel without insulation. This summer I plan to pull back the cover and put foam rubber insultation on those lines or at least move them off of the metal.
I have skirted my camper and put heat source underneath. Our Campco heated waterline froze at -4 although rated to -8 wish you luck.
We just used bottled water until the lines thawed.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:12 AM   #4
B-O-B'03
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Many have asked and I am fairly certain that no such schematics exist, even on the production line, since no two trailers seem to be built the same.

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Old 02-18-2021, 06:43 AM   #5
Ken / Claudia
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I question what have you done to prepare the RV to use it in the winter. If you were under the impression you could just park it and use it throughout the winter without any winterizing you are going have problems.
So, to keep the pipes from freezing along with everything else, what are you are you doing now? If you ask for help to get through a cold winter while living in a RV you will get good advice on here.
There is a lot more than just knowing were the pipes are and putting foam around them.
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Old 02-18-2021, 07:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
I question what have you done to prepare the RV to use it in the winter. If you were under the impression you could just park it and use it throughout the winter without any winterizing you are going have problems.
So, to keep the pipes from freezing along with everything else, what are you are you doing now? If you ask for help to get through a cold winter while living in a RV you will get good advice on here.
There is a lot more than just knowing were the pipes are and putting foam around them.
To add to that last statement, in some situations, maybe in "many situations when using an RV" putting insulation around the pipes does more harm than good. Depending on where the pipes are located, putting foam "pipe wrap" on them may actually cause them to freeze and prevent them from thawing. If the foam is put on pipes near the frame rails, then allowed to "lay against the steel rail" the foam can compress, reducing the insulation and allowing the pipe to freeze. As you heat the bottom/belly of the trailer, the foam around the pipe can prevent the heat from reaching the frozen pipe, making it impossible to thaw it for much longer than if the pipe was "open to the warmth"....

I don't know of any Keystone product, from the cheapest entry level to the most expensive "luxury" model that will remain functional in extremely cold weather without using outrageously large amounts of propane, electricity or both. By "outrageously large amounts" I mean that you can easily use as much energy to heat/live in a 30' (240 square foot) RV as you would use in a 1000 square foot "conventional house"....

So, don't believe the "sales hype" (trying to refrain from calling it BS) from the RV brochures and salesmen. While some models are a "bit better in staying warm" no Keystone trailer will remain "functional and cozy warm" in below zero weather without using every BTU of propane, electric heating and often times, also the stovetop burners to keep it above 70.

Now, with additional measures like skirting, insulation on the windows, sealing the slides to prevent air leaks, possibly adding foam sheeting to the outside ends of the slides and to the slide floors you can reduce propane consumption a bit, but plan on a 30 pound tank every 3 or 4 days when it's below freezing and the wind is blowing..... Even then, you won't be casually walking from your "nice warm bed" to the toilet in the middle of the night in your skivvies.....

Oh, and don't forget the three or more "plastic single layer domes" over all the roof vents. They "leak heat" through that plastic dome at the same rate as opening a window or the front door. Use "vent pillows" or foam blocks cut to fit to help reduce the heat loss... Don't forget to remove the bathroom vent pillow and turn on the fan when showering or you'll have "rain on the inside of the windows. Same with boiling water, cooking on the stove. Any excess moisture will collect, first on the windows, next on the cooler wall surfaces, like behind the sofa, against the spot where the mattress touches the wall, etc. So even using "insulation" sometimes you have to adjust using it to prevent even "worse things" from happening.
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Old 02-18-2021, 08:31 AM   #7
Wilco
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My hot and cold water lines run together along a beam of my trailer. I ran heat cable (like is used to keep gutters from freezing) along the hot and cold water lines. I used electrical tape to bundle it all together. I then placed the bundle inside large pool noodles to insulate them. I used zip ties to hold this to the beam under the trailer instead of the metal clamps to limit heat loss. I keep the fresh water tank full because the water hose can still freeze. I wrapped the excess heat cable around the black and grey water valves to keep them from freezing. I used roof repair tape to secure the heat cable to the valves. The plug for the cable is at the black water valve.

If extended cold weather is forecasted, I close the gray water valve and only dump it when the tank is full. This prevents the drain hose from freezing solid.
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Old 04-26-2024, 07:40 AM   #8
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I have the same model and I am currently dropping some of the coroplast and making my own schematic.
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Old 04-28-2024, 01:27 PM   #9
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I am afraid that a Passport is not an all season trailer. It is easy for the manufacturer to add some marketing hype and an All-Season or Arctic Pac sticker.

We full timed for 10 years in a true full-time and all season rated 5er and were in temperatures as low as 10 degF and as high as 110 degF. It had extra insulation, dueal pane windows, heated basement, radiant heat barrier. It was expensive and heavy. You could buy several Passport trailer for what that trailer cost.

Your best bet for cold weather is to enclose under the trailer using an insulating barrier and heat this under area. Add a double barrier at the windows.

Ken
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Old 04-28-2024, 02:06 PM   #10
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Our Passport says “Extended Season Camping”. It is not a 4-season camper, nor is it rated for full time living, nor does my insurance cover full time use.

While you may have your reasons for trying to live in the camper in the winter, your camper wasn’t designed, engineered or built for year-round use, regardless of what the promotional literature leads you to believe.
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Old 04-30-2024, 10:42 AM   #11
9546mt
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Frozen Water Pipes Insulation & Cold Bedrooms

There are many posts regarding frozen water pipes and little or no heat in the fifth wheel front bedrooms, but I've never seen anyone mention insulating the inside of the frame rails. They are huge heat sinks! Has anyone insulated their frame rails and if so, how did you deal with the potential for condensation? It seems like spray on foam would work in some areas.

My cold bedroom was the result of poor workmanship and using flex tubing for 20 foot runs. They crushed the tubing where it passed through the floor by the furnace and where it went through some crossmembers. In some places the opening was only about 2 inches.

Insulating the underbelly would also help with air condition.
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