Raising Older 1/2 Tonne Series

[Penhall]

Just wondering if anyone has raised their old 1/2 tonne series 5th wheels to work with newer trucks. I have a 2006 276EFS that matches fairly well with my 03 F250 but the wife is hinting (pushing) for a newer crew cab which all appear to be quite a bit taller than my 03. Just curious on other's experiences.



Happy wife happy something something.

Thanks
George

[MattHelm21]

It’s difficult to see in the picture but it looks like on your trailer the axles are on top of the springs. On my previous 2000 Newmar American Star fifth wheel it was the same way. My 2000 Chevy 3500 fit perfectly it was so low even with 4WD. When I upgraded to the 2004.5 Duramax 3500HD, things were out of wack. My dealer was able to perform the “axle flip” which isn’t really a flip at all but the axles are removed, the perches are relocated from the bottom to the top, and the axles are remounted under the spring in turn raising the trailer. We pulled that trailer for another 12 years with only normal wear and tear issues.

[rhagfo]

Before hitting the panic button, measure. Measure your current truck, then measure other trucks as to their height. Our new 2016 Ram DRW 3500, is only 1” taller than our 2001 Ram.

[Penhall]

Thanks ... I didn't intend the pic to be of help in the current situation of the 5th wheel, just the current situation with the wife. ;-) The axles are currently below the springs so a traditional 'flip' isn't really an option. But Russ is right (or Paula or Belle, whichever one actually responded), I think I'll wait and see what the actual difference is; eye-ball measurement is 2-4 inches difference at tailgate freestanding but will have to see what the measurement is post-squat once I decide on a vehicle.

Cheers!

[Penhall]

Picked up a 2012 F350 and looks like I have to deal with an additional 2 1/2 inches, as measured wheel centres to top of box. I may be able to get an additional 1" from my king pin adjustment so probably a couple inches will make it level-ish with the new truck.

Hoping a suspension change, Morryde type will help, otherwise will probably have to weld new hangers or something.

Don't want to go too crazy expense wise as now the wife is hinting at a different 5th wheel but that won't be this year, or so I think.

But it's still January, so time to think it through is all I got.

[JRTJH]

If all you're going to need is a couple of inches, the Lippert Correct Track system may be your solution. Here's one source, it's DEFINITELY available cheaper, but this Amazon link will get you started on what it does complete with some reviews from people who have installed/used it:

https://www.amazon.com/Lippert-87220.../dp/B00JMHF15G

[Penhall]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If all you're going to need is a couple of inches, the Lippert Correct Track system may be your solution. Here's one source, it's DEFINITELY available cheaper, but this Amazon link will get you started on what it does complete with some reviews from people who have installed/used it:

https://www.amazon.com/Lippert-87220.../dp/B00JMHF15G

Thanks John, I will look into that option.

Cheers!

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If all you're going to need is a couple of inches, the Lippert Correct Track system may be your solution. Here's one source, it's DEFINITELY available cheaper, but this Amazon link will get you started on what it does complete with some reviews from people who have installed/used it:

https://www.amazon.com/Lippert-87220.../dp/B00JMHF15G

This got our 5er level!

[jsmith948]

I am considering adding the correct track system to our trailer in order to gain some additional clearance.
Concerned about adding stress (leverage) to the spring hangers. Has anyone had any problems adding the correct track to the stock hangers?
Our trailer is equipped with 4400# axles and the spring hangers are not too stout.

[Penhall]

Well, finally got the new (2012) truck hooked to the 'ol 5th wheel. So far without any modifications except raising the king pin, it sits levelish, but a bit nose high and my clearance isn't ideal. I think I'll have to go down the Lippert system suggested.

Yeah, I know, old thread now but thought it'd be useful to someone if I keep my quest for level documented.

[jsb5717]

Maybe you just need a newer 5er to go with than newer truck

[Penhall]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

Maybe you just need a newer 5er to go with than newer truck

You've been talking to my wife, haven't you?

[trucker LOU]

Hey Penhall, some F350s have a 3" spacer block between the axle housing and the spring, It can be replaced with 1 1/2' spacer from F250. check it out.-----Lou----

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by trucker LOU

Hey Penhall, some F350s have a 3" spacer block between the axle housing and the spring, It can be replaced with 1 1/2' spacer from F250. check it out.-----Lou----

Wouldn't that make the truck nose high? On Ford trucks the headlights are already pointed too high, wouldn't this shine them straight up?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Wouldn't that make the truck nose high? On Ford trucks the headlights are already pointed too high, wouldn't this shine them straight up?

The way I understand the "previous model SuperDuty" (2011-2016) the F250 used a 3" spring block and the F350 used a 2" spring block (to keep the trucks relatively the same height with the additional springs on the rear of the F350. Most F250's have 2 leaves with an optional overload leaf (3 total) while F350's have 4 leaves with a fifth which is the overload leaf.

All SuperDuty trucks in that model run (2011-2016) AFAIK, have a 2" rear axle rise on the body. That's a 3" block in 250's and a 2" block in 350's (because of the increased thickness in the rear leaf assembly). That causes the trucks to "sit lower in the front" by 2". When a "reasonable load" is placed in the bed, the truck is designed to sit level. Mine sits "nose down" when in the garage with an empty bed and sits "slightly nose high" when connected to the fifth wheel.

When you couple the above with the extremely long leaves used by Ford (to soften the unloaded ride for comfort) there is a need to "rake the truck" so as the load settles the rear of the truck, the "headlights don't shine on the stars"....

Many people install a 2" lift kit to the front axle to "bring the truck to level" when it is unloaded. That makes the "headlights in the sky" issue even more pronounced with that mod.

I don't know what (if any) mods have been done to the OP's truck that might affect how it sits "unloaded and with the fifth wheel pin weight on the rear axle", so it's a "best guess" whether a 2" a 3" spring block or air bags or ???? is the best way to level his trailer....

If the truck is "not modded in height" then I'd suspect there's no need to change the assembly until the trailer, hitch and pin box have all been properly adjusted.

Anyway, I wanted to point out that SuperDuty trucks do have "spring blocks" and there is a "rhyme and reason" to how they're installed by Ford.

[Penhall]

Originally Posted by trucker LOU

Hey Penhall, some F350s have a 3" spacer block between the axle housing and the spring, It can be replaced with 1 1/2' spacer from F250. check it out.-----Lou----

Actually, I'm already air bagged but thanks

Cheers

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Penhall

Actually, I'm already air bagged but thanks

Cheers

Is this some kind of right of passage for Ford owners?? Seems no matter what they are towing, they feel the need to put on Air Bags.
Never felt the need even when my 2001 Ram 2500 was carrying a 2,700 pin at 1,700# over GVWR.
This was also pointed out in another RV forum, to the point Ford should offer installed air bags as an option.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Is this some kind of right of passage for Ford owners?? Seems no matter what they are towing, they feel the need to put on Air Bags.
Never felt the need even when my 2001 Ram 2500 was carrying a 2,700 pin at 1,700# over GVWR.
This was also pointed out in another RV forum, to the point Ford should offer installed air bags as an option.

I guess I haven't followed the rituals very well. I've owned Ford trucks since 1973, F150's, F250/350's, Rangers and I've never felt the need to install air bags.

Ford does use "very long spring packs" in an effort to reduce the stiff ride when the truck is not carrying a lot of weight. That makes for a bit more compression when the truck is loaded. Translated, that means "sag"...

There's a "fine line" between when the springs compress enough to sag and when the springs compress enough to "hit the spring bump stops" and stop sagging (when the overload springs come into the suspension play).

People often "install air bags" to keep the truck from sagging, with the belief that it'll keep sagging more and more, when in fact, when the overload springs engage, sagging stops and "that's when the truck is actually riding level" (since there's 2" of rear height built into the truck from the factory).

So, personal preference, I suppose, but I've not felt the need for air bags in any of the (I lost count at about 25) Ford trucks that I've owned since 1973. Many people state, "If I could build my ideal truck, it would have a Cummins engine, a GM Allison transmission and a Ford body and chassis". The reason for that combination is to have what's "believed" to be the best in each area, engine, transmission and body. The Cummins has the "best reputation" for diesel engines, the Allison is reputed "best transmission" and the Ford, best ride, most durable body.... Whether that's a true assessment or whether recent years have totally "debunked the myths" is something I guess we'll be discussing for generations to come....

Anyway, Ford has long been believed to have the best ride... That may have spurred much of the "need to add air bags to make it a real truck ride" since it "sags under load"... Most of those people who install air bags never allow their springs to engage the overloads, so they're defeating the Ford engineering and suspension advantages that they "want the Ford body in their ideal truck"....

Of course, as usual, if there's 10 truck owners around a campfire, there'll be 10 opinions probably all different to some degree.... This is "just my opinion" based on nothing more than what I've seen under my trucks and what I've experienced with my trucks... So, like a certain body part, we all have one and they all do the same thing, just look different and like opinions, "they all smell to some degree"..... (I'm talking about noses, what did you think I meant) …..

[Penhall]

Thanks for that.

Cheers!

[Camp CA]

Love your truck's color scheme!!. I had the same on my 2002 F-250 super duty crew cab 4x4. After 17.5 years I sold it and purchased a white 2016 F-350 DRW 4x2 super duty crew cab with 2000 miles (lease return). Best move I ever made. Never needed the 4x4; only used it to pull a ski boat tandem trailer up a steep, wet ramp. So after that purchase guess what?.......my wife convinced me to purchase a longer (41 ft) and heavier (16,600 GVWR) fifth wheel trailer last January. Now I have to get a class A noncommercial driver's license since the trailer GVWR is > 15,000 lbs and guess what?...........the DMV is closed, not only for the written trailer test but for a driving test (and I am quite happy to do these with a N95 mask).

Since the truck sits lower than a 4x4 it is way easier to get into, has a really nice ride and probably better diesel mileage. Of course, I had to raise the hitch in the truck bed....no big deal with my hitch.