Ford's Diesel Engine - Earlier & Recent Designs

[geo]

Originally Posted by LittleJoe

The 6.0 and the 6.4 were also international engines and the reason Ford has been sued for staggering amounts of money.

The 6.7 is having valve issues(the exhaust valves overheat and break a piece off, which goes through the engine). It seems to be a programming issue as it is always same cylinder (cant remember which now). Ford is trying to keep this very quiet.

Most of the failures are in commercial high load/stress use...... The Scorpion engine has a long way to go before it earns its credibility (not just advertising hype)

(Trumpet fanfare). Yes! Let the Truck Wars commence!

Littlejoe - I think you are confusing the 2004-07 Navistar engine with the current Ford designed and manufactured 6.7L diesel engine. Don't worry, it's a well documented mistake on many forums and one used frequently by competing company dealers' salespeople. Basically it's FUD sales. It's well documented the the Navistar #8 cylinder exhaust valve would fail and the cause was likely glowplug failure. Big lawsuit against Ford, who in turn pressed a big lawsuit against IH Navistar. In fact, if you have one of these Navistar 6.0L diesel engines, you can still find class action lawyers to get you in to the fray!

But it's not the Scorpion ... sorry.

Ron

[LittleJoe]

Originally Posted by geo

(Trumpet fanfare). Yes! Let the Truck Wars commence!

Littlejoe - I think you are confusing the 2004-07 Navistar engine with the current Ford designed and manufactured 6.7L diesel engine. Don't worry, it's a well documented mistake on many forums and one used frequently by competing company dealers' salespeople. Basically it's FUD sales. It's well documented the the Navistar #8 cylinder exhaust valve would fail and the cause was likely glowplug failure. Big lawsuit against Ford, who in turn pressed a big lawsuit against IH Navistar. In fact, if you have one of these Navistar 6.0L diesel engines, you can still find class action lawyers to get you in to the fray!

But it's not the Scorpion ... sorry.

Ron

I am fully aware of the 6.0 and 6.4 problems and did not go into them. The 6.7L (code name scorpion during development) is having major engine failures caused by valve overheating and is supposedly related to software glitch in ecm programming. The engine is and instant boat anchor when this happens. Ford is trying to keep the low % failures quiet.

I hope they get it ironed out and not on the backs of the owners. I have nothing at all against Ford, I just get fed up with companies using the customer as the guinea pig , not only FORD.

The rush to bring new equipment to market is all that matters. The long term testing is not near long enough to show up these types of failures.

[geo]

Originally Posted by LittleJoe

I am fully aware of the 6.0 and 6.4 problems and did not go into them. The 6.7L (code name scorpion during development) is having major engine failures caused by valve overheating and is supposedly related to software glitch in ecm programming. The engine is and instant boat anchor when this happens. Ford is trying to keep the low % failures quiet.

I hope they get it ironed out and not on the backs of the owners. I have nothing at all against Ford, I just get fed up with companies using the customer as the guinea pig , not only FORD.

The rush to bring new equipment to market is all that matters. The long term testing is not near long enough to show up these types of failures.

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) is very common in sales and politics. I used it myself selling geophysical software. Not proud of doing that, but I did. Please back your hearsay with facts, references, or other documentation.

Thanks,

Ron

[LittleJoe]

FUD......too funny.

I am basing my info on what I have seen with my own eyes. I do not have pictures,but these failures were in Ont Hydro trucks. Ont Hydro ,at least in the Fleet that my close friend is a manager of is no longer buying F350-,450 or 550 with Diesel, and are using V10 gas which by the way is barely cracking 5mpg, because they cannot afford the unscheduled lengthy downtime.

I have been in and around the trucking industry for many years and and operated a successful business(with my brother) (Pacific Inland Powertrain).

I don't get on the forums much, and can only offer my learned opinion and experience. If you care to ignore it , thats fine. Think of me the first time you have to lift the cab off your ford to work on the engine(on your dime).

I wish you and or anyone the best of luck with there potential high $ repair costs in the diesel line. I am also rolling the dice with my older Dodge but am not willing to go newer until , they are proven, and only time will do that. JMO of course

[fla-gypsy]

Originally Posted by geo

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) is very common in sales and politics. I used it myself selling geophysical software. Not proud of doing that, but I did. Please back your hearsay with facts, references, or other documentation.

Thanks,

Ron

x2. Rumors and hearsay on supposed engine failures in no way serves to educate any of us. There have been a few reported fuel system failures initiated from the Bosch HPFP failures that has also taken place on another brand as well. The problem appears to be related to fuel lubricity and the number of failures has been statisticly irrelevant to the total number produced. Some owners unwisely did things (ignored warning indicators, failed to act immediately, did not follow recommended guidelines) that Ford has used to deny warranty claims in some cases which I feel is shameful but that is a different matter. These HP fuel systems are complicated, expensive, and can do a lot of damage downstream if they fail.

On to the V-10 which I am an owner of and your information is inaccurate. My V-10 gets 12.3 mpg around town in mixed driving.

[LittleJoe]

[On to the V-10 which I am an owner of and your information is inaccurate. My V-10 gets 12.3 mpg around town in mixed driving.[/QUOTE]


I was referring to F350,450, and 550. Read utility body, trucks that are at there GVWR rating with the equipment they carry.

My information is NOT inaccurate thankyou. Apparently realworld experiences, of what is really happening is not worth consideration. If you want to be closed minded and stick your head in the sand on info that dosen't suit you, then that's why this is a free country.

I'm done on this one

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

As I have a 6.0L Thought I'd check and see;

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/30/FordCA.pdf

It's long but interesting.....

hankaye

[geo]

Littlejoe -

I'm sure you feel your information is accurate. And I would encourage you to contact "Car and Driver" magazine and possibly some lawyers to bring action that would benefit all of us.

Here is the last article on the 6.7L Ford Diesel I can find in "Car and Driver":


http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-up...arly-adopters/

You might also be interested in the following link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/31/b...new-6-7-liter/


Hankaye -

I know you are probably maintaining and watching your truck quite closely, even before this information. Thank you so much for yours, and others, input, and particularly the link to some information. You might also want to look at:

http://classactionlawsuitsinthenews....diesel-engine/

http://hughesellzey.com/consumer-pro...-F-Series.html

http://www.newsinferno.com/defective...rompt-lawsuits

Ron

[LeeMedic]

I have a 2000 Ford Excursion with the 7.3! She pulls like a tank! I have been told by several mechanics that the 7.3 was the best out there and to never sell my Excursion.

I use her to pull my 35' RV trailer.

[Jim W]

Originally Posted by geo

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) is very common in sales and politics. I used it myself selling geophysical software. Not proud of doing that, but I did. Please back your hearsay with facts, references, or other documentation.

Thanks,

Ron

Ron,
Here is one artical from RV NET on the new 6.7L engine.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/25714993.cfm
This is from Turbo Diesel Register. COM
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...round-two.html
Here is another issue on the 6.7L also.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...6-7l-ford.html
Jim W.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by LeeMedic

I have a 2000 Ford Excursion with the 7.3! She pulls like a tank! I have been told by several mechanics that the 7.3 was the best out there and to never sell my Excursion.

I use her to pull my 35' RV trailer.

When Ford started messing with the 7.3 the Ford Diesel started to fade. I was a Ford man until it came time to chose a Diesel truck, I bought a Cummins, the Dodge came with it.

I am at 250K miles, and still pull my 12K#, 33' Copper Canyon just fine. I easily see getting 500K of strong towing out of this rig.

Hankaye, I think the Ford 6.0's issues are mostly preventable with good maintenance and some simple mods.
I believe that Diesel Tech just ran an article on a $500 fix to the issue.

[fivergeezer]

My son is a Certified H.D. Diesel mechanic for a mid-west municipality. He just completed a Ford Factory training session on the new 6.7 diesel as his city employer seems to purchase mostly Ford Trucks. He said the tech. trainer acknowledged the valve failures and said that if the new 6.7 diesel turns out to be as troublesome as the 6.0 and 6.4 I.H.'s, Ford will drop out of the light-duty diesel market and stick to its gas-powered trucks. They should've stuck with the 7.3. It was bulletproof!

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by hankaye

Howdy All;

As I have a 6.0L Thought I'd check and see;

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/30/FordCA.pdf

It's long but interesting.....

hankaye

Hankaye, i was wrong about the article May 2012 Diesel Power mag.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/f...ple_handtools/

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by fivergeezer

My son is a Certified H.D. Diesel mechanic for a mid-west municipality. He just completed a Ford Factory training session on the new 6.7 diesel as his city employer seems to purchase mostly Ford Trucks. He said the tech. trainer acknowledged the valve failures and said that if the new 6.7 diesel turns out to be as troublesome as the 6.0 and 6.4 I.H.'s, Ford will drop out of the light-duty diesel market and stick to its gas-powered trucks. They should've stuck with the 7.3. It was bulletproof!

It wasn't Fords choice to continue producing the 7.3 but rather the fact that the engine was too dirty for the new emission standards, the same low sulfur emission standards that put 80% of the WV coal mines out of business when the high sulfur coal could not be used in electric power generating plants.

[LouSlugger]

I have a 2009 F250 with the 6.4 and about 70K miles and it has run and pulled flawlessly.

[geo]

Originally Posted by Jim W

Ron,
Here is one artical from RV NET on the new 6.7L engine.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/25714993.cfm
This is from Turbo Diesel Register. COM
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...round-two.html
Here is another issue on the 6.7L also.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...6-7l-ford.html
Jim W.

Jim -

I am sure you would be interested in:

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-cu...g-failure.html

http://www.mycarlady.com/2011/10/12/...awsuit-update/

http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/6....s-recalls.html

If one printed off your references and took them to a lawyer, do you think that lawyer would consider it worthy of a lawsuit? The references you gave are again "hearsay". In fact, one of the forums you referenced also referenced another forum. I'm surprised it didn't reference this forum back!

Look, no matter how many people tell you that the material is exquisite, beautiful, elegant, and expensive, the fact of the matter is the emperor is still walking down the street naked.

To all -

We have let ourselves become too easily swayed by hearsay in so much of our everyday life. So far, everything anyone has said is "my buddy has a buddy that said . . ." or something similar. Has anyone else noticed that absolutely no member of our Forum has weighed in on this post to say "My Ford engine disintegrated!"? Not even the Forum Administrator who is also a 2011 Ford F350 diesel owner!

Now, have any of us run out to dump our Keystone RV based upon any of the scathing posts on this very Forum that lambast the Keystone RV product? Did all the Alpine owners run out and dump their Alpines after the one very persisitant person (now banned) crossposted and spammed the Forum with his accusations, even developed a Website to air his accusations, hoping to get some sort of restitution from Keystone? I see a lot of Keystone owners still on this Forum.

I do not doubt that there have been some "bad" 6.7L Ford diesel engines out there. Times past, I bought new a 1999 Dodge Dakota that had an engine electrical failure before I even got 1500 miles on it! Diamler Chrysler repaired it, and I drove it for 160,000+ miles until the second weekend of May 2010! And I hated selling it because it was a great truck! I still see it here in North Texas! But would I be one of those on the Forum to ask, "Can I Pull A 15,500 Pound Alpine 3650RL With A Dodge Dakota?"

These Truck Wars are senseless. All they do is drive discord in the Forum. You like your truck. I like my truck. We both feel that we made a good decision and are probably happy with our own decision. But should I FORCE my choice upon you? This is way too 1984!

Look, find some facts to share with all of us. Not hearsay, FACTS! If there is a problem, many of us would probably like to know what to watch out for. Look, Hankaye could have a Ford with a possible future problem, but I am sure he is thankful that the problem has been brought to his attention. I seriously doubt if he will go out Monday and sell his truck.

And I seriously doubt if any and all the lambasting and complaining posted on this Forum will cause Ford or Keystone to claim bankruptcy.

Ron

[geo]

Originally Posted by flybouy

It wasn't Fords choice to continue producing the 7.3 but rather the fact that the engine was too dirty for the new emission standards, the same low sulfur emission standards that put 80% of the WV coal mines out of business when the high sulfur coal could not be used in electric power generating plants.

Flybouy -

You are correct. The 7.3 was a Navistar engine. Due to the problems with the "whole" of the relationship between Ford, Navistar, and Ford's customers, Ford dropped IH Navistar as an diesel engine provider. The fact that the more stringent emissions standard came at the same time was just fortunate for the Ford engine design.

Ron

[hankaye]

geo, Howdy;

Please read some (first 20 or 30 pages), and you'll see that IH is still making the diesel engines, made the 6.0 and 6.4's.
You'll also note that Ford sued IH for not fixing the problems and the class action suit is using that against Ford.

I aim to join the suit and that way (hopefully ), will get a suitiable fix to the problem.

hankaye

[Str8shooter]

geo, well said - thank you!

A great source for the Ford 6.7L diesel owner and others is the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum205/ specific to the 6.7L engine, a great owners forum. Real posts from real owners.

Like you say, we don't run from our Keystones at every problem or potential problems others may have experienced. When the "perfect" truck company comes along I'll check them out. For me the only issue has been a replacement front steering stabilizer. I can't say enough good things at this point with just over 36,000 miles since driving off the lot on 6-3-2010. In those miles we have pulled our Keystone Raptor well over 5,000 miles. Bad stuff can happen but not so much with our truck so far.

I encourage others to review the forum and see what issues, problems, and accolades owners have posted.

Have a great day all!

[geo]

Originally Posted by hankaye

geo, Howdy;

Please read some (first 20 or 30 pages), and you'll see that IH is still making the diesel engines, made the 6.0 and 6.4's.
You'll also note that Ford sued IH for not fixing the problems and the class action suit is using that against Ford.

I aim to join the suit and that way (hopefully ), will get a suitiable fix to the problem.

hankaye

Hankaye -

Of course you are correct. Legal briefs are so lengthy! And, yes, the Navistar diesels are still being produced. Just not for Ford F-series trucks. And yes, the lawsuit for the Navistar problems are against Ford who is in-turn suing IH Navistar. Isn't our legal system great? Customers are suing Ford in a Class-Action Suit, and Ford is suing IH Navistar in response to that suit. The customers of Ford are not part of the Ford suit against Navistar. Too bad. The customers should be able to sue the responsible party!

I would encourage you to join the class action suit against Ford as soon as you can. You should do this to protect your investment and you. Please, PM me with your progress.

Ron