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Old 10-14-2014, 10:13 PM   #1
denverpilot
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Upgrades ...

So some may have seen my other thread that the new trailer needs a little TLC at the dealer for some water getting in where it shouldn't be.

While it's there I'll probably have them do one or more of these things listed below... But not all. Some are listed just for fun. Not going to do them.

Thought I'd strike up a discussion on priorities and whether you've done or would do any of these...

- Slide awnings/covers.
Haven't really seen much of a problem with dirt and stuff on top of the slides and around here stuff dries out quickly with our low humidity if we're camping close to home. But they seem like a "good idea" for not an incredibly high amount of money.

- Inverter for TV.
It's just a luxury. Don't really "need" it. Already did my own triple battery install with surplus 12VDC stuff I had access to and capable of re-doing it to golf cart batteries when the others die. I have six spares of the 12VDC variety being kept on a proper charge and maintained. Long story but I got them cheap. Sooo... Electrical work isn't a problem here and if I really needed a TV "fix" without the generator set up, I know how to hook one up temporarily and route the AC back to the TV. But there's a point where you just say, "It is nice to pay someone else to crawl around and do this."

- Mount a TV in the bedroom.
Again a luxury, not really needed. Probably not. It's a short trip to the recliner if I want to watch something.

- Speaking of TV... Still debating on Dish in my head. Annoyed that DirecTV has NFL but doesn't do the "turn on the receiver for a few months when you need it" thing that Dish does for RVers.

- Go ahead and install the bedroom A/C.
Trailer is pre-wired and ready for one. 50A service. Again a luxury. Not a need.

- Auto-leveler.
Don't like the prices. Love the idea of hitting a button and not messing with it. We do tend to get into camp late on Friday nights and often don't bother leveling much to keep the noise down for neighbors until the next day. Sometimes even just stay hitched up for the night.

- Stabilizer bars.
If not the auto leveling maybe stabilizers. We really don't mind the trailer wiggle but the 80 lb dog can get a pretty good wiggle going if he's wandering around. May have another rescue dog soon too.

- Built in surge suppressor/voltage cutout.
This one is almost a guaranteed done one on my list. Would like not only to have it built in but also have some telemetry to see what's up with it.

- Solar
Not super enthused about this one. We get a lot of hail and the trailer is stored outside. Unless I could find a way to cover damage on the insurance reasonably, it'll just end up trashed eventually. Of course the trailer will too, but I'd rather save up for a nice pole barn for it. Seems a waste of money for mostly weekend campers. If we were doing long trips, I'd think harder about it.

- Sewage hose storage tube underneath
Another one of those "I can do that myself but nice to let someone else crawl under there" ones.

- LED marker lights
Already replaced almost all interior bulbs. I missed a couple in the underneath storage so I need to do another eBay order. Just thought it'd be nice to do all the markers and tail lights. Probably do this one myself.

- Better speakers
Another I will probably do myself. Too easy.

- If they offer it, I think I'd pay 'em to scrub it and then wax it with my choice of wax. :-)
I'm probably not going to get off that easy though! Haha!!!

Already done...
- Vent covers
- LED disco light strip on awning (grin)
- upgraded tires
- came with upgraded suspension
- tire minder sensors on wheels
- led lights (already mentioned)

What did I forget???
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:26 PM   #2
denverpilot
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Adding to the list...

- Hard start capacitor kit for existing A/C and if we install the 2nd, same thing.
Mostly as another "good idea" more than a need.
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:44 PM   #3
Festus2
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Your list looks like an edition of "wants" vs "needs" and in a number of the priorities you listed above, you may have already answered your own question. Do I want it or do I need it? Is it just a "good idea" or a priority?

When I look at your "wish list", it appears as though you see the Inverter for a TV, a second TV in the bedroom, bedroom A/C, auto levelers, solar panels and the hard-wired capacitor kits as "wants" or "good ideas" but not needs or priorities.

Why not focus and set aside some money for those items that appear to be priorities - but even these don't seem crucial to you: Slide awning/covers, stabilizer bars and a satellite dish?

Everybody will have a different list than yours as our needs and wants are not the same and they also change over time. What seems important now may not seem so important a few years down the road. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you will have to decide on your own wants and needs. What I've done or what I would consider doing really doesn't matter to anyone but myself.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:49 PM   #4
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Upgrades ...

Completely understand. Just started the thread as a conversation point.

Figured also there's always that chance that someone might pop up and say, "You haven't done X yet?! Oh it's the best thing since sliced bread!" ... and it'd be something I've never heard of.

There's always something.

I know a guy who built in a stripper pole into his Class A. And no, not for strippers.

His wife got into pole dancing as exercise when they lived in Vegas.

Yeah, apparently that's really a thing... In Vegas. Non-stripper girls go to pole dancing exercise classes.

Because? Heck if I know... It's Vegas!

By the way, he tried to hide it when he asked on Facebook how to anchor a pole properly in a Class A. We all guessed what he was up to by the second reply comment on his post. LOL!!!

He's still embarrassed that we all figured it out that easily!

So yeah, completely understand that one man's desires for his RV won't ever be the same as another's!
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:49 AM   #5
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During the past 18 months while the DW and I were "discussing" the new trailer... Okay she discussed why we should, while I made excuses as to why we shouldn't...

The only things that either of us felt we needed on the new trailer other than the floor plan were slide toppers, auto levelers, vent covers and bedroom a/c.. Funny thing is while we... I ... procrastinated Keystone took care of the auto levelers and the front a/c by announcing the High Country model of the Cougar..

I added the toppers, and vent covers in the deal...
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:50 AM   #6
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The stabilizers are a great mod! I installed the Steadyfast system myself and the fronts did such a good job that I've never done the rear bar.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:19 AM   #7
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Just curious..what dealer?
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverpilot View Post
- Slide awnings/covers.
Had the dealer install them at the signing of the contract. I like them and I like the way they work. WHITE would not be my choice of color now. IF we keep camper long enough to replace them they will be black.
- Inverter for TV.
Nope havent done it and probably wont.
- Mount a TV in the bedroom.
Did that and use every night with timer on for 1 hour I have yet to see it cut off.
- Speaking of TV... Still debating on Dish in my head. Annoyed that DirecTV has NFL but doesn't do the "turn on the receiver for a few months when you need it" thing that Dish does for RVers.
We use Direct TV at home and I bought a NON HD receiver($5 extra a month) and use it only the main tv in the living room. I carry a 18" dish and tripod mounted pole and can ge the signal within 5 minutes most times i set it up.
- Go ahead and install the bedroom A/C.
Dealer installed with the signing of the contract. Was on my list if we ever bought a 5er the main thing over the slide out awning. I knew I wanted this and it has been more than wonderful in our NC/SC summer with heat and humidity.
- Auto-leveler.
LOvE it don't have it, wish I did.
- Stabilizer bars.
Steady fast installed one Saturday last year. MORE than enjoy this setup and I have not used my PIN tripod but one or two times with steadfast installed.PUT it up because it was in way.
- Built in surge suppressor/voltage cutout.
Inline version that goes in at the power pole then my 50 amps plugs into it.
- Solar
NO big deal to me as we don't boondock since we quit going to CA$HCAR races.
- Sewage hose storage tube underneath
did it for the Blue hose but now use the rhino hose and it wont fit. so it sits empty under my camper. I keep rhino in the clear plastic tub/bin in basement.
- LED marker lights
Not yet but I keep saying I am. Probably do this one myself.
- Better speakers
Not a big deal for me.
- If they offer it, I think I'd pay 'em to scrub it and then wax it with my choice of wax. :-)
I did this, this past spring at the beach campground. BUT I have hand waxed with Protect-All my front cap and most of my decals over the course of the summer.
Already done...
- Vent covers
- LED light strip on awning
- upgraded tires(Maxxis)
- New kitchen counter top, new kitchen sink(don't ask)
- New handheld cordless Dyson Vacuum for camper(the wife wanted it)
- Took two chairs out of dining area for storage and use of a Pack&Play (grandchildren)
have fun doing these mods.
randy
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:43 AM   #9
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Stabilizers are on my to-do list for the winter. Wife complains that I "really rock the boat" when I get up and make coffee 3 hours before she's ready to be up and moving.

I pondered and voted No on roughly the same list you have, Nate. Oh, I do have the hard start capacitor in my toolbox, waiting for installation ... for 2 seasons now!

Probably going to dive into the belly this winter as well for some cleanup and insulation.

edit

forgot - added flagpole on rear ladder. Paid way too much (Camping World - need I say more?) but wanted one before 4th of July. Was pondering building a mount that bolted to a couple empty holes on the hitch but never got past the planning stages

adding or thinking about ...

Fishing pole holders in forward compartment

Rifle cabinet in forward closet ... yeah, well ... maybe

Coat hooks in back corner of living room

key hangar board on kitchen wall next to exit door

weather station with indoor/outdoor thermometer

Upgrade thermostat

would love to vent the range hood fan outboard but I am probably NOT going to cut a hole in the side of momma's 5er...

Suspension upgrade during this winter's bearing repack/brake check

extra propane QD for BBQ

slide out floors in forward storage compartment

heavier gauge wire from WFCO to batteries

another 12V outlet in bedroom (for CPAP)
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:11 PM   #10
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Just reviving the old thread...

Trailer is at the dealer hunting down the nose cap leak while the first year warranty is still barely intact.

Having them quote a few of these things and will report back what we end up doing. I think it'll be slide awnings and the second A/C and I'll mess with the rest over time, when I feel like puttering.

I added wet bolts to the "I would really like the dealer to mess with that" list, and asked them to quote swapping them... or so I thought. They (or at least the tech working on the quote) had absolutely no idea what they were and ended up calling me early this week to ask.

I didn't want to be rude and point out that the very first thing that comes up for that phrase on a Google search is the Mor/Ryde kit. Sigh. I just kinda hinted at it as I explained what they were.

Heh. Oh well. Will see what the quotes come out at.

Loved the comment about the bedroom TV and never seeing it shut off. That made me laugh out loud. Typically no insomniac behavior on camping trips, is there? Heh. Great point.

Thanks for all the thoughts so far.

Hey GK, for the key hanger we put Command hooks near the door for jackets/hoodies, and found that by adding a lanyard to the keys, they hang great from the hooks and we don't forget where they are, etc. Works good. Plus you can get yourself a nice US Navy one at your next Blue Angels air show for free. You can't have my LockMart C-130 one, however. Heh. Plus that one stays at home for the tractor.

Those Command hooks would work for your actual jacket application further back in yours too. They work really well.

If you decide you need help with that cracked door, holler and I can head your direction sometime. Preferably when it's warmer, but whatever. I'll survive.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:04 AM   #11
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Hey Nate,

I already have the command hooks for keys 'n stuff at the door ... I've been browsing around Cabelas and Bass Pro and Hobby Lobby for something like this

for my SoCal beach girl wife

or something like this for me



and haven't found the right size .... so I chased down some scrap oak, bought some brass hooks and parked the stuff on my "next project" pile ... where it still sits.

I'm going to call or stop by Windish and talk about the door issue ... we'll see what they say. I have a feeling I'll be removing and rebuilding the door.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:34 AM   #12
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When you get ready to rebuild the door, remember that it's much more than a simple "aluminum frame with two sheets of fiberglass, some styrofoam, a window and a door handle. There is an adjustable brace system also mounted in the door to keep it "square" as well as the hinge assembly for not only the solid door but also the screen door. At initial glance, it does seem "quite simple", but once you get all the components apart and laid out on the ground, there's more than meets the eye.

Pay attention to how it comes apart or you will likely have issues trying to get it all back together again.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:05 PM   #13
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Upgrades ...

Well I got my call from Windish today.

On the nose cap leak. They said the tech found cracks in the Dicor and that led to the rubber roof bulging right behind that.

No mention at all of the screw that looked like it had stripped and the trim piece that holds that down being loose, which is all I saw when I took it over there. What do you bet it did that on the trip over?

Sigh. RV build quality = crap. But I knew that going in.

Keystone staying true to form, denied the claim saying it was caused by bad maintenance.

Windish recommended I call and talk to them because (so they claim), "customers get better service from them than we do". There's a nice summary of the industry these days. Sigh.

They want $2K to repair it. $1800 of that is labor. Im guessing the rest is a bucket of Dicor. Haha. Sad. But reasonable. They say they'd have to scrape and remove all of the Dicor all the way across the front seal, reattach the rubber roof and trim, and then reapply the Dicor all the way across. And as a belt and suspenders type of repair person, I think they're recommending the right way to do it. Most of the labor is to get all the existing Dicor off.

Trying to decide how many phone calls and how much time it will take to argue with Keystone. $1800 makes it worth a few hours I guess, except those hours have to come from my working hours and not after hours. Sigh. Maybe not.

Anyone want to pretend they're me and call them? I'll pay a percentage of the repair bill! LOL! Kidding of course. But sure would be nice if I had a "personal assistant" for this kind of crap. Oh and friends in high places. Don't really have either in this case. :-)Maybe a case of beer to someone at Keystone? LOL!!

Some of the other quotes from the wish list:

Over $2K to hardwire install a surge suppressor. I have ample electrical background so there's no way in Hades that I'll pay that. I'll be doing that one myself. Yeah, I get it that it takes a few hours to do it right. Not an awful price if you consider the labor time. Sounds like a good spring project when it's warmer as prep for the next camping season. I know a lot of folks aren't handy (or safe) doing electrical work, but I've got a long background in more dangerous electrical work (data center / telecom -48VDC battery plants and distribution) so wiring up the suppressor will be a no-brainer.

Slide toppers: Metal encased ones (they say metal "wrap", I assume they're talking about a cover they retract into? I've never seen anything that looks like it "wraps" anything in any slide topper photos I've ever seen) $2025 parts and labor.

Non-metal "wrapped", $1695.

Three slides.

Not awful. And not a project I want to tackle.

Could probably beat it at Camping World during one of their $25 installation sales. But even then, CW will get most of that back in price difference of "parts", I think. Anyone think that price is way out of the ballpark?

Installing 2nd AC in pre-wired bedroom vent: $964.

Also not awful. Have a friend who's done several who says we could do it for just over half of that on a nice day, but again... Takes a full day by the time I drag the trailer to his storage lot area where we work on projects, and set up, and hoist the thing up on the roof, etc. Not my idea of a fun Saturday.

I was not too surprised (thanks to this forum) when the rep told me they have zero clout with Keystone.

I can only imagine how angry that must make folks who buy stuff there and don't participate in online forums or educate themselves on the truly terrible customer service practices in the RV industry before purchasing.

I would be steaming mad if it weren't for going in with lower than low expectations. Even then, I still feel like I'd dump Keystone in a heartbeat for a manufacturer who charged a little more (not orders of magnitude more) and actually stood behind their products. I know, they do it because folks simply won't pay enough for these things.

But seriously, sincere thanks to folks here for the many warnings that "warranty" means almost nothing to manufacturers in this biz.

Oh I mentioned that we had an extended warranty from another place and he actually laughed. He said "no way" would an extended warranty company cover something the manufacturer won't. I also knew this was going to be the case from this forum, if only I hadn't been suckered by that thing before I read the fine print. That was just a timing thing. And I appreciate that the forum and members try to educate on those, too. I'll take my lumps on that one, and never do it again. No biggie.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:33 PM   #14
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denverpilot -
I'm both amazed and impressed with how positive you have remained throughout this whole process. Most of the news you have received has been negative and your wallet will be considerable lighter when you get finished with the repair and those other "goodies".

However, it's unfortunate that you came to learn about warranties and other consumer pitfalls a bit too late but as you said, those mistakes and assumptions won't happen again. An expensive lesson to be sure. And yes, duking it out with Keystone may be a lengthy and certainly frustrating experience and you may be right in deciding to forget about it and just "get 'er done".

I'd phone Keystone and pretend I am you but as you know I can't say "Y'all" properly and would have a lot of trouble posing as American - especially since y'all have a funny accent.

Do you plan on keeping your signature as is? I'm talking about being a "happy 5er owner".
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:12 AM   #15
denverpilot
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denverpilot -

I'm both amazed and impressed with how positive you have remained throughout this whole process. Most of the news you have received has been negative and your wallet will be considerable lighter when you get finished with the repair and those other "goodies".



...



Do you plan on keeping your signature as is? I'm talking about being a "happy 5er owner".

Ahh, too many years worrying about things I couldn't change broke me of that habit. Well, I had to make a little effort, but dad (RIP) liked to use a phrase, "Will it matter in ten years?" to assess whether something was worth getting fired up about.

I'll definitely keep the sig!

You should see the repair bills on airplanes. I wouldn't own one without co-owners to commiserate with, often over a beer. A couple of years ago we needed a piano hinge replaced that attaches the right aileron to the wing. Mechanic said it'd be $40 for parts and then a bit of labor. After finding the only place the FAA will allow to make the part, it was $930.

Either we replaced the hinge, or we had a really big expensive paperweight that could make loud noises but not fly.

Maintenance sucks but it is still necessary to get the maximum utility out of these things we own.

The joke in airplane circles goes like this:

What are the happiest two days of an airplane owner's life?

The day he buys it and the day he sells it.

Heh. Works for RVs, boats, houses, sometimes spouses...
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