general question on water storage

[tibbar]

I plan to use one of these with a 55 gallon water barrel we have. On the farm we used these to fuel the trucks and they work great and you never have to worry about needing a battery. 10 gallon a minute is fast enough for my 40 gallon tank.

http://www.harborfreight.com/barrel-pump-45743.html

[Bigsky3625]

Never drink from or carry water in the water tanks. All plastic and that leaches a lot of chemicals.

We use bottles water to drink make coffee with. We use park water to shower and flush with.

Plus we don't need the extra weight.

After each black tank flush we put ateast 6 gallons back in and some dish soap. Just to make sure we don't get the pile of doom.

[labs4life]

Originally Posted by Bigsky3625

Never drink from or carry water in the water tanks. All plastic and that leaches a lot of chemicals.

We use bottles water to drink make coffee with. We use park water to shower and flush with.

Plus we don't need the extra weight.

After each black tank flush we put ateast 6 gallons back in and some dish soap. Just to make sure we don't get the pile of doom.

So, never use the water tanks. Why did they even bother to put them on there? I always carry a full tank with me and it has been very useful on more than one occasion. This is also with full hookup,campgrounds.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Bigsky3625

Never drink from or carry water in the water tanks. All plastic and that leaches a lot of chemicals.

We use bottles water to drink make coffee with. We use park water to shower and flush with.

Plus we don't need the extra weight.

After each black tank flush we put ateast 6 gallons back in and some dish soap. Just to make sure we don't get the pile of doom.

Some tanks do have an issue with chemical contamination, but not all tanks leach into the contents. The water tank is (should be) made of food grade plastic. You say you use bottled water to drink. Do you mean bottled water sold in plastic jugs or individual plastic containers?

[wva3185]

Originally Posted by labs4life

So, never use the water tanks. Why did they even bother to put them on there? I always carry a full tank with me and it has been very useful on more than one occasion. This is also with full hookup,campgrounds.

I have a seasonal site and I always have water on board. A) If the CG water system goes down, which it did 2 years ago, I have water. B) I always turn water off when I am going to be out for awhile. Sometimes I forget to turn it back on so I just flip the pump on and use the on board water till the next day.

[crash]

You say only a 1/4 cup of bleach for the whole fresh water tank?

[jsmith948]

Crash - To treat our 60 gal FW tank, we mix 1 1/2 cups of bleach in a 2 1/2 gal bucket of water. Then, using a funnel, we pour this miixture into the FW tank. Top off the tank, pump water into all of the lines and fill the HWH. Then top off again so all of the tank surfaces are in contact with the treated water. We let it sit for about a day, then, drain and flush.

[DanandDonna]

I am semi opposed to using Chlorine to clean a water system. I have found that using a Antibacterial Mouthwash works as well as Chlorine and if you end up with a little after taste at least it is fresh. Both Listerine and Scope make antibacterial mouthwashes that work perfectly to clean and sanitize your water system.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

I am semi opposed to using Chlorine to clean a water system. I have found that using a Antibacterial Mouthwash works as well as Chlorine and if you end up with a little after taste at least it is fresh. Both Listerine and Scope make antibacterial mouthwashes that work perfectly to clean and sanitize your water system.

How did you determine this? What testing method did you utilize?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

I am semi opposed to using Chlorine to clean a water system. I have found that using a Antibacterial Mouthwash works as well as Chlorine and if you end up with a little after taste at least it is fresh. Both Listerine and Scope make antibacterial mouthwashes that work perfectly to clean and sanitize your water system.

Back on April 28th you made a similar post claiming that Listerine can be used to sanitize the fresh water system. At that time there was much general discussion about the ineffectiveness of such claims. I asked you if you have any data to support your comments and you never replied to the request. Now you're again claiming that Scope/Listerine are "effective" to clean and sanitize an RV fresh water system. Again, would you please provide any data you have with regards to how well this method works?

I see no mention in any Scope, Listerine (or other mouthwash literature) to indicate that any of them clean or even have any chemical agent to remove casts or protozoa from the water. Please provide your data to support your claim.

Thank you,

[DanandDonna]

Well I have no Data to give you just me and a few friends that RV together that have been doing for a number of years now the longest is 4 years me just the last year. But so far none of us have gotten sick from the water systems and we all do a fair bit of off the grid camping. Number of people altogether is 11, ranging in age from 10 to 66, plus 3 cats and 3 dogs.

But to make sure I have a very good friend that works for the water board and will get him to do some checking when I get the results back I will post them here. I do agree that water departments use Chlorine and other agents to purify water, but up here in gods country we have the best water available with or without chlorine.

By the way JRTJH do you has anything scientific to say that an antibacterial solution will not work. Just so we get both sides of the story.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

Well I have no Data to give you just me and a few friends that RV together that have been doing for a number of years now the longest is 4 years me just the last year. But so far none of us have gotten sick from the water systems and we all do a fair bit of off the grid camping. Number of people altogether is 11, ranging in age from 10 to 66, plus 3 cats and 3 dogs.

You have anecdotal evidence that indicates using this method is OK because you (and others) have been doing it and have experienced no issues.

There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence from others who have done nothing (i.e. no sanitization at all) and have also experienced no issues.

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

But to make sure I have a very good friend that works for the water board and will get him to do some checking when I get the results back I will post them here. I do agree that water departments use Chlorine and other agents to purify water, but up here in gods country we have the best water available with or without chlorine...

I will be very curious to see what your friend has to say. He may have a personal opinion... But his professional opinion would likely be guided by the MSDS - which indicates the product is not to be ingested.

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

By the way JRTJH do you has anything scientific to say that an antibacterial solution will not work. Just so we get both sides of the story.

Asking someone to prove a negative is not productive to making an argument. Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent is also anti-bacterial. Should it also be proven that Dawn will not work?

I am fairly certain that bacteria cannot grow in a can of acetone... What about this solution for the job?

When making arguments for a suitable solution, I would defer to evidence that indicates a product has successfully been tested for a specific use. You can visit the FDA website for instructions on safe, tested methods of using chlorine bleach for drinking water sanitization purposes.

BTW... I use the bleach method.. Not 'religiously'... Probably not often enough actually... But then again, I will drink out of a garden water hose.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

Well I have no Data to give you just me and a few friends that RV together that have been doing for a number of years now the longest is 4 years me just the last year. But so far none of us have gotten sick from the water systems and we all do a fair bit of off the grid camping. Number of people altogether is 11, ranging in age from 10 to 66, plus 3 cats and 3 dogs.

But to make sure I have a very good friend that works for the water board and will get him to do some checking when I get the results back I will post them here. I do agree that water departments use Chlorine and other agents to purify water, but up here in gods country we have the best water available with or without chlorine.

By the way JRTJH do you has anything scientific to say that an antibacterial solution will not work. Just so we get both sides of the story.

I just sent an email to McNeil (Johnson and Johnson's parent company) requesting any data they have to support using Listerine mouthwash as a disinfectant to sanitize RV fresh water systems. The "autoreply" email I received indicates that they have received my question. I would hope to have a response from the manufacturers of Listerine in the next day or two indicating their research and recommendations on use of their product for the purposes you suggest.

You stated that you have a friend who works at the water department. When you talk to him, not only ask him if Listerine will work to sanitize your "cleanest water" but ask for his recommendations for use in questionable water supplies, since not all of us live where you enjoy that clean water.

As SAD commented, just because you haven't had any "ill effects" from using mouthwash to sanitize your system doesn't mean that it's effective. It simply means that you haven't ingested any harmful organic material from your water system. Is it because, as you say, "up here in gods country we have the best water available" and you have no "bugs" in your water? or is it because Listerine, in very dilute quantities, is effectively sanitizing your water system? I'd tend to think you have clean water with no need to sanitize at all and that you have been very lucky so far. Using your method south of the border in Mexico would certainly produce different results and I'd suggest to you that trying to keep your water system "pure" with mouthwash in that area would be futile.

On our last trip to Mexico with our RV (a Sansborne rail trip) we used the water filtration system in our airstream (Everpure) to remove the deal "bugs" that were killed by chlorinating our FW system. We went through 3 filters in a 21 day trip. Each filter weighed about 1 lb when new and weighed about 8 or 9 lbs when they finally stopped flowing water through them. Most of that weight was essentially "dead bodies of protozoa and other microbial organisms" almost all of which cause "Montezuma's Revenge" or severe diarrhea. I would certainly hesitate to dump a quarter cup of Listerine in a tank of that water and drink even one glass of the stuff.

At any rate, hopefully we will have an answer from the makers of Listerine on their recommendations for using their product as you describe before too long.

[Festus2]

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

But to make sure I have a very good friend that works for the water board and will get him to do some checking when I get the results back I will post them here. I do agree that water departments use Chlorine and other agents to purify water, but up here in gods country we have the best water available with or without chlorine.

.

Victoria (the poster's location) is the capital city of British Columbia and home to our provincial politicians. As such, it may not be God's country but it is a very beautiful place nevertheless.

Victoria's drinking water falls under the jurisdiction of the Capital Regional District which, by the way, adds chlorine to the water entering the water treatment plant and ammonia is also added about 10 minutes travel time downstream from the plant. (Source: Capital Regional District Home Page - Water Quality FAQ)

I'll leave this with you to draw your own conclusions.

[ctpd814]

This is from Wikipedia on Listerine:

The active ingredients listed on Listerine bottles are essential oils menthol 0.042%, thymol 0.064%, methyl salicylate 0.06%, and eucalyptol 0.092%. In combination all have an antiseptic effect and there is some thought that methyl salicylate may have an anti inflammatory effect as well[citation needed]. Ethanol, which is toxic to bacteria at concentrations of 40%, is present in concentrations of 21.6% in the flavored product and 26.9% in the original gold Listerine Antiseptic[citation needed]. At this concentration, the ethanol serves to dissolve the active ingredients.[citation needed]
Materials Safety Data Sheet for Listerine Antiseptic Mouthwash, Original-05/22/2008 [1]

I think that says enough to say that it is not effective. Alcohol can be an effective disinfectant but the concentrations are much higher than this provides. MAYBE if your entire system was filled with Listerine it may help but that doesn't seem very practical.

Here is the link if you would like it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listerine

[DanandDonna]

Just got off the phone with my friend at the CRD Water department. And I stand corrected and will eat humble pie on my statement about Listerine Antisepctic and antibacterial mouth wash. Listerine or Scope antiseptic will kill some bacteria on contact but diluted down in a 50 gallon RV water system how much contact will you get. According to my friend you would probably need at least a 50/50 solution if not greater than that to be totally effective.

My friend stated that if you just want to refresh you tank after a trip where you used good water but it has been sitting for a week or two Listerine or whatever mouth wash with antibacterial would do. For the long haul and for a good cleaning he would use a chlorine solution diluted in water.

To JRTJH and the others with many years of experience in Health Care you are not the only ones 28 years as a Paramedic and know that cleaning was always done with some kind of product that contained Chlorine of some kind ie. Precept. I'm pretty sure that Listerine and Scope will come back with a we do not recommend the use of our product to clean and sanitize your RV water system.

I just hat the smell and aftertaste but will do a really good job of flushing in the future after the use of Chlorine to clean my fresh water supply.

And apologies for getting a little snarky it was late and I was tired.

[Festus2]

If you cannot get rid of all the aftertaste and smell of the bleach (chlorine) when you sanitize your FW tank and it still bothers you, consider installing a water filter of some type on your faucet or one below the sink. We use a countertop Brita water filter and it does a pretty good job of eliminating smell and odours from tap water. As a "serious" water purifier, it isn't all that effective but for those two irritants, it does the job.

[SAD]

Originally Posted by DanandDonna

Just got off the phone with my friend at the CRD Water department. And I stand corrected and will eat humble pie on my statement about Listerine Antisepctic and antibacterial mouth wash. Listerine or Scope antiseptic will kill some bacteria on contact but diluted down in a 50 gallon RV water system how much contact will you get. According to my friend you would probably need at least a 50/50 solution if not greater than that to be totally effective.

My friend stated that if you just want to refresh you tank after a trip where you used good water but it has been sitting for a week or two Listerine or whatever mouth wash with antibacterial would do. For the long haul and for a good cleaning he would use a chlorine solution diluted in water.

To JRTJH and the others with many years of experience in Health Care you are not the only ones 28 years as a Paramedic and know that cleaning was always done with some kind of product that contained Chlorine of some kind ie. Precept. I'm pretty sure that Listerine and Scope will come back with a we do not recommend the use of our product to clean and sanitize your RV water system.

I just hat the smell and aftertaste but will do a really good job of flushing in the future after the use of Chlorine to clean my fresh water supply.

And apologies for getting a little snarky it was late and I was tired.

Great post. Now go camping!!

[DanandDonna]

Hey Festus2 I already use them have one installed under the bathroom sink and have a staged set of 2 under the kitchen sink. I only use them on the cold side of things as the only thing we use the hot water for is washing the dishes. I also have one that I use when I am in a park with full hook-ups that goes on my outside hose just before it enters the trailer.

I also must say that the DW and I use a lot of bottled water and the cats only get bottled water.

[JRTJH]

If the smell of chlorine and the "aftertaste" of plastic tend to linger after sanitizing and flushing your tank, add a cup of baking soda to a tank of water after flushing the chlorine out and let it sit for a couple hours, drain and no need to flush after that (unless you are on a severely restricted salt diet). The baking soda will remove all the chlorine and plastic taste/smell and leave your tank fresh and pretty much a "non contributor" to anything in your water system.