275/55/20 Good Year Eagle LS and Towing

[danp121]

So, I am new here...and I did do a search and couldnt find what I was looking for...so forgive me if I searched incorrectly.

I have a 2007 suburban 1500 with 275/55/20 good year eagle LS tires.

I tow a 2011 passport 300BH.

One the scales the burb weighs in at drive axle 2940 rear axle 2940, full tank of fuel, me and with my kids in the back seat.

One the scales with the 300BH attached, loaded to the nines front axle 3100, rear axle 4000, trailer 5460 (12,560 gross). I know the rear axle is maxed. I made some adjustments after that last weigh in to take a few hundred pounds off the rear axle and place it in the trailer. I havent re-scaled yet.

My burb is a 5.3 with a blackbear tune, 4.10 gears (with mag hytech cover), 2 wheel drive, deep trans pan with tru cool 40k cooler, crane race rockers, bilstein HD shochs, air lift bags, hellwig sway bars front and rear, with ebc yellow stuff pads and slotted rotors. I have a reese dual cam hitch on the trailer. The truck has plenty of power and tracks very well. My only issue is cruising at 65 and dealing with big rigs and wind.

The truck will track straight but the tires feel way to soft for the loaded truck. The truck will track straight while being passed by a big rig but the entire truck will squirm around for a second or so until the rig passes (sidewall deflection).

I towed for about 1000 miles total last summer...from North Jersey to Lake George and a few times down to Cape May on the NJ Parkway. This coming year I am planning on a trip to Myrtle Beach and do not trust the Eagle LS to that long trip in the July heat....

Who is running Eagle LS tires and has a good history with them?

My local tire guy (who I have used for 22 years) tells me XL rated tires are not worth the money. Seeing they are still a 4 ply tire, I probably agree. However the load rating is about 400ibs more with a 275/55 XL rated tire.

I see Cooper has a discovere HP plus @ 305/50/20 that has a load rating of 120T roughly 3000ibs per tire. Anyone running these?

I put the 4.10's in this last season and dont want to go taller and loose gear. It was 3.73's from the factory and wasn't the best towing the 5600ibs 300BH. The 305/55 is about .15 larger than the 275/55.

Any real world info woul dbe greatly appreciated. I feel like I have beaten the hell out of what tire to use. With no LT tire available, I think the 305/50 cooper is the best alternative to stiffen this burb up....I also think the cooper will be better for the burb since the sidewall design is for a light truck/SUV...the eagle LS is a sedan touring tire....damn GM making these trucks grocery getters from the factory.

BTW; no 3/4 ton comments please....my truck gets 21mpg unloaded and does fairly well loaded. 3/4 ton is out of the question.

Thx, Dan

[TomHaycraft]

Originally Posted by danp121

So, I am new here...and I did do a search and couldnt find what I was looking for...so forgive me if I searched incorrectly.

I have a 2007 suburban 1500 with 275/55/20 good year eagle LS tires.

Hi Dan,

Timely question / thread. Wish I had an the answer, I'm searching too. My '09 Silverado has just short of 50,000 miles on the original Eagle LS tires. Only in the last 10,000 miles I have started pulling trailers, have about 5,000 miles with the trailer. I have no complaints.

I'm close to the rear axle GAWR, at 80% of the tire's load rating. I can't reconcile in my mind, whether 20% is enough margin of safety. I have 6/32's left in the tread. If not for the trailer, I'd try to get another 10,000 miles out of them before replacing. We are heading into the Davis Mountains of West Texas for Spring Break, I'm going to replace the tires before that trip.

I have found we are limited in options for the 275/55/20. No 'E' load rated tires. To stay with this size, all my research keeps pointing back to the Michelin LTX. Construction of the tire would indicate a more durable tire (but I can't find details on number of plies and materials), but still carries the '111' load rating.

Plan B: Purchase 18" wheels and mount up the Michelin LTX M/S2 in a 275/65/18 with the 'E' load rating. Clearly, there would be nothing better to have rolling under me, but I'm not sure if that is the best use of my money.

While I've not provided an answer, I hope I've added to the discussion. As to so many of our questions on TV and trailer safety, too bad there isn't a resource that would provide hard numbers for failure rates. Anecdotal stories are all we seem to have ... so bring 'em on!

Tom

[JRTJH]

Michelin LTX A/T2 is produced in the size close to what you need. LT275/65R/20/E has a 60K warranty, Load Range E and a Max Load of 3750@80PSI. Also, there is a 285/55R/20 LRE that is about $75 a tire more, The overall diameter is 32.4" and a max load of 3305@80PSI. My question, if I were you, is how high is the pressure rating on your 20" wheels? I ask that question because if the TPMS is the valve stem type (like Ford) are they available in the higher PSI ratings? I'm not sure of their availability.....

I stayed with18" tires on my truck, there's a little better selection of LT/E tires, but not really that great for 18's either. It seems to me that the bigger the wheels get, both to accommodate bigger brake discs and to reduce tire sidewall measurements, the fewer "decent truck tires" there are.

Not being familiar with your vehicle setup, I'm not sure if 18's will fit your vehicle or if, like some of the Ford options, the brake disc/caliper is just too big to tuck it into a smaller wheel.

The LTS's are pretty pricey at about $400 each, but when you compare them to off-brand tires at $800 a set with 30 or 40K warranties, they come out a little less painful.

[TomHaycraft]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Michelin LTX A/T2 is produced in the size close to what you need. LT275/65R/20/E has a 60K warranty, Load Range E and a Max Load of 3750@80PSI.

Thanks for the note, good reminder about clearance on the back-side for the brakes. I'll need to check if I pursue the 18" wheel option. Verification of the wheel's rating for tire pressure it can handle is certainly on my check-list to confirm before I place my order.

As to the Michelin LTS A/T2, in my search, I had seen that tire but am concerned about the more aggressive tread pattern (certainly, better for off-road) but with it comes a tire with the potential for more road noise. Due to this, it didn't make it on to my "short list."

Tom

[danp121]

Originally Posted by TomHaycraft

Hi Dan,
I have found we are limited in options for the 275/55/20. No 'E' load rated tires. To stay with this size, all my research keeps pointing back to the Michelin LTX. Construction of the tire would indicate a more durable tire (but I can't find details on number of plies and materials), but still carries the '111' load rating.
Tom

After speaking with the Michelin towing rep's (if you call michelin they will put you in contact with a tech rep from their corporate office to discuss towing tires and evaluate your vehicle/application) they actually recommended a BFG AT tire as the sidewall design is designed for a "more" heavy duty application (BFG is owqned by the same parent company as michelin). I, like you, thought the LTX was a good choice based on what I read and what the product literature suggests. The michelin rep will also try to tell you that you need to run their tires at the factory air pressure.....I had an extended dialog session with the rep over this. It was obviously he was reading from a manual and, in fact, was not an "engineer". So take what you get from them at face value and do your own due dilligence.

regarding the 285/55/20 option. My truck had 3.73's from the factory. @ 65 with the 31.8" tire and 3.73's my rpms where about 1921. changing to a 4.10 increased rpm to approximately 2112. that 191 rpms made a significant difference in tow cruise. @ 2100 rpm the truck is starting to be in the peak torque band. I can double pump the throttle to unlock the converter when going up a slight incline which will jump up my rpms by about 2-3 hundred allowing the truck to pull in 4th gear with minimal effort. with the 40ton trans cooler my trans temps never go over 155-160 on a 100 degree day (driving the catskils up to lake george NY).

with the 305/55/20 my rpms would be about 2096 at 65 or loss of about 16 rpms. Hardly even notable.

going to a 32.4" tire would yeild an rpm of about 2073 at 65 or a loss of about 39 rpms. still, hardly noticable but it is, in fact, giving back about 20% of my rpm gain going from 3.73 to 4.10. couple this loss in RPM with the added unsprung weight gain of the LT tire (which could be 10-15 ibs per tire) I would fear that my trucks performance would be noticably degraded.

the 305/55/20 cooper discoverer HP plus is rated at 3086 ibs/tire (vs 3365 for a similar LT tire 285/55/20), is only 45 ibs (4-5 over the stock 40ibs tire and 5-7 less then a LT tire), and is only .15" difference +/- over the factory 275/55/20. seems like a "practicle" middle choice. the cooper hp plus is also priced well under the LT tire.

my eagle LS tires have about 9-10 32nd's left...I would love to leave them and not spend 700 on new tires. So I am interested in hearing about others towing with the eagle LS, how many miles have been logged, and if the truck was scaled and what it weighed out at. I will log this data and share once I get at least 10 responses.

[TomHaycraft]

Originally Posted by danp121

After speaking with the Michelin towing rep's (if you call michelin they will put you in contact with a tech rep from their corporate office to discuss towing tires and evaluate your vehicle/application) ...

Not sure why I hadn't considered calling Goodyear (in my case, because of the Eagle LS's) ... but just off the phone with them. My primary question was whether a 20% margin of safety in load rating / index was acceptable when towing a 5th wheel trailer. The rep's response was "yes."

To gain a better understanding as to the intent of load ratings / indexes, I asked what the effect on the tires would be if 100% of the time, I was hauling within 95% of the rating. His response was that while the tread would wear quicker (that's a no brainer), he said the tire should hold up to it, that is why there are max ratings. I'm not sure I have the risk tolerance for taking those chances, but it was interesting to hear this direct from a major tire manufacturer.

Based on this, I'm less inclined to replace wheels with 18" in order to be able to run a higher load rating or index.

All things considered, I will still replace the Eagle LS2s before my trip into the Davis Mountains and go with either the Goodyear Wrangler or Michelin LTX M/S2s due to their more robust construction (but still holding only the same 111 load index). Right now, I'm leaning toward the Michelin's, possibly for no other reason than 20k more miles under warranty and slightly less expensive.

Any thoughts?

Tom

[danp121]

I am with you. I just don't feel comfortable with the eagle ls. I did call good year as well as cooper, hankook, kumho, and a few others. Good year tried to talk me into a wrangler. Since they only came in the 111 load i opted out. Good years position was the sidewall design in the wrangler is more robust when compared to the eagle ls. I too like the Michelin but can't see replacing to the same load rAting (even if most say it isn't t worth it). All the manufacturers said the sidewalls with the Xl rating (2800+ibs) is beefed up over the standard load equivalent. Yes, it is still a 4 ply. But in all reality ( and what I am trying to evaluate in the most practical sense) is a e rated tire really needed for our applications. I am not towing 7000 ibs and don't ever intend to with the 1500.

Cooper discoverer hp plus is available in 275/55/20 with a 117 load rating and 60 k warranty. The dodge boys like the coopers...go to a ram site and do a search. This is a tire designed for trucks and SUVs.

I priced the 305/50/20 at my local tire shop. He quoted 177 installed. The avalanche forums suggest this will fit without hitting. I am questioning if it will clear when loaded. I will be calling the tire shop tomorrow to price 275/55/20 discoverer hp plus's. the reviews I read say they are quiet.

My truck is a 4x2...and is only used on the highways. Quiet is a must.

[JRTJH]

I put Cooper Discoverer M&S tires on my truck for the winter. This is my first set of Cooper tires, but my wife's brothers have been running them for years and they talked me into them. They are quiet, stick like crazy and are the first dedicated snow tires I've ever owned that really do improve traction over standard AT tires. If my experience with the dealer here and talking with the Cooper Tech services is any indication, I'd say that I'll be considering Cooper when my Wrangler LT's are ready for replacement.

[audio1der]

Great thread! I would LOVE to replace the stock 275/60/20 GY Wrangler HPs on our Ram with something with more sidewall stiffness for exactly the same reason. Even when not towing but in high winds the truck is all over the road thanks to the mushy sidewalls.
Have you considered the Goodyear Silent Armour, BFG Rugged Terrain or the General Grabber HTS? I have the same issue with the Michelin LTX's; many swear by them but I can't see why they would be much different than what we have currently.

[TomHaycraft]

Originally Posted by audio1der

Great thread! I would LOVE to replace the stock 275/60/20 GY Wrangler HPs on our Ram with something with more sidewall stiffness for exactly the same reason. Even when not towing but in high winds the truck is all over the road thanks to the mushy sidewalls.
Have you considered the Goodyear Silent Armour, BFG Rugged Terrain or the General Grabber HTS? I have the same issue with the Michelin LTX's; many swear by them but I can't see why they would be much different than what we have currently.

Last weekend I replaced my GY Eagle LS/2s on my Silverado. Despite having a reputation as a cheap OEM tire, they served me well. I had 50,000 miles on them (only 1/2 of the last 10,000 pulling the trailer). With 6/32s left on each tire, had I not been towing, I might have seen 60,000 miles. Truck and trailer were always very well behaved. No flats, 4 years of solid service.

Researching my options for the 20" wheels, I found few options to increase the durability and/or load index. I saw the General Grabber HTS, would have moved me from a 111 load index to 117. Couldn't find out much about the tire, was unsure about it. GY Wrangler Silent Armor was next. More aggressive tread than I cared for, same 111 load index. Interesting stories from the shop I was working with, reports of the kevlar belts "deforming" when sitting for periods. Customers reporting an out of round feeling until the tires warmed up. Not for me.

All my research kept me coming back to the Michelin LTX M/S2. 70,000 mile warranty, competitive price point, still just a 111 load index though and my pin weight pushes them to 79% of max. I considered changing to 18" wheels to open up the options, will instead invest the extra money into a TPMS for the trailer!

First week on the Michelin's, great feel, I will hook up the trailer for a 3-day weekend on Friday, see how they feel loaded up.

Tom

[audio1der]

Thank you, Tom. I hope they serve you well and look forward to reading about your thoughts on the Michelins; found out they sell them at our local Costco.

[Ruffus]

I have to hand it to you younger (I'm assuming) generation, you really dig into the specifications of tires. This has been a very enjoyable post and very inlighting. You have brought up questions that I would never have thought to ask or investigate, thank you.
Sadly I am retired and do not have the time or the will power to investigate the in's and out's of tireology so I rely on years of experiance and the art of reading peoples body language, as well as reading the keystone blog. Very informatrive.
I have been running Nitto Dura Grapplers on my truck which are 20 inch wheels. So far I have a little over 55,000 miles which has been mostly towing our 38 foot fifthwheel. I am going to replace them this summer before our next big trip even though they have quite a bit of tread left.
This is how I choose tires. I find someone that has been driving on the tires that I am looking at. I ask them what kind of tread wear they are getting and reduce it by 1/3rd, thats because people like to bragg and inflate results such as fuel mileage. Then I look at the tire. It has to have a good look with a straight tread but still be able to handle snow and mud. It must be at least a 10 ply tire because of the load and it must be quiet on the road.
That is all there is to it for me.
Please keep us posted on the Michaelin tires wear because I still like there quality.
That's my two cents worth and keep up the good work, I learn a lot from you all.

[TomHaycraft]

Originally Posted by Ruffus

I have to hand it to you younger (I'm assuming) generation, you really dig into the specifications of tires.

Can't speak for the others, but for me, guilty as charged! My clock doesn't hit the half-century mark until next month. Quite the youngster in some RV crowds. Without the experience, and a limited number of family or friends who tow trailers heavy enough to consider such mundane things, I research such things, especially where $$ and safety are concerned. But then it goes along with my profession, RN and Project Manager, decisions need to be based on numbers, hard data.

Thank you, for your input based on experience. It all adds to our body of knowledge and the reason we keep logging back on.

Tom

[danp121]

These tires are just junk for towing. I have spent hours tunning in the dual cam hitch. The hitch is dead on. The tires are too jelly like. Anything over 65 is unsafe. Why no one is making a lt 275/55/20....I don't know. My 1500 burb is more than capable to pull this 5800ibs trailer.....but I can't get a tire that won't flex!

[TomHaycraft]

Danp121, which tires are you referring to? Several different Goodyear, a Michelin and I think General tire have been referenced.

[danp121]

Originally Posted by TomHaycraft

Danp121, which tires are you referring to? Several different Goodyear, a Michelin and I think General tire have been referenced.

The factory eagle ls-2's. i just did a NJ to houston texas trip. my hitch is dialed in just about perfectly. you can walk up to my truck and push on the trialer or truck and watch the rims hover over the tires....this is with 44psi of pressure. when you are driving at 60-65 and the trailer gets hit by wind from a semi the trailer stays directly behind the truck BUT the pressure exerted on the trailer gets translated to the truck causing the weakest part to give...the truck starts to feel like jello. I can hold the wheel straight when a semi passes only the have the truck giggle around underneath me....the truck still tracks straight on the road but giggles around like jello. when i first experienced this I thought it was the trailer hitch not set up correct....I would try to correct with the wheel and make the condition worse (true white knuckle). Now go into a slight turn and have a semi pass you at 60-65....its not fun.

it looks like LT 265/60/20 wrangler sra's are next.

I wish someone who is running a 117 XL rated tire would chime in......The cooper discover CTS in the XL 117 seems to be my next choice...

[TomHaycraft]

My OEM Eagle LS/2s were stable with 7,000 pounds of trailer, but in a 5th wheel configuration. Over the years, I've pulled a variety of trailers from the bumper/receiver hitch, none as solid and stable as the 5er. I know it isn't an option for everyone, I sure won't go back though!

Good luck, I'll watch for others to reply, hopefully someone's got some suggestions.