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Old 03-20-2018, 03:22 AM   #1
jack65
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Best Towing Rigs For This Trailer

Coming from a 2008 Forest River Flagstaff MAC _ LTD 206BH Trailer
Before that tent camped for over 40 years. Got too old for that.

Found out our current Ford Edge won't tow this 2007 Keystone Outback 18RS. We knew that before buying this trailer.

We were really hoping to upgrade to a Ford Explorer, but was told it wouldn't tow our trailer. So, we want to pick between a JEEP or Ford F-150 to tow it with.

What do you recommend or use for towing up to 6,000 lbs

Specs of Trailer:

2007 Keystone Outback 18RS
Chassis
Brakes 4-wheel electric
Tire Size ST205/75D14C
Number of Axles 2

Dimensions and Weights
Overall Height (ft/in) 10' 3"
Overall Width (in) 96
Trailer Length (ft/in) 19' 10"
Gross Vehicle Wt Rating (GVWR) 6000
Unloaded Curb Weight (lb) 4300
Max Cargo Carrying Capacity (lb) 1700
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:42 AM   #2
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Definitely not a jeep wrangler but possibly a grand Cherokee, with V-6 or V-8 they have about 7200lb towing cap in 4WD. Personally I'd go with the V-8, check the tow ratings for each tow vehicle your looking at. The newer F-150s are good for 10,000lbs towing I believe. Just depends whether you want an suv or truck.
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:21 AM   #3
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I would go with a Ford F250 (V8) or F150 with V6 eco-boost, GM 2500HD (V8) or Dodge 2500 - V8 or Dodge 1500 with V6 diesel.

Always good to have more truck then is needed to pull the trailer.
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Tinner12002 View Post
Definitely not a jeep wrangler but possibly a grand Cherokee, with V-6 or V-8 they have about 7200lb towing cap in 4WD. Personally I'd go with the V-8, check the tow ratings for each tow vehicle your looking at. The newer F-150s are good for 10,000lbs towing I believe. Just depends whether you want an suv or truck.
My wife prefers SUV style over pickup, even though like Bob says, the pickup probably tows better.
That is correct according to the Jeep charts.
I'll be looking at one of each tomorrow at the dealership where we got our Ford Edge from:
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:52 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack65 View Post
My wife prefers SUV style over pickup, even though like Bob says, the pickup probably tows better.
That is correct according to the Jeep charts.
I'll be looking at one of each tomorrow at the dealership where we got our Ford Edge from:
Don't be misled by the sales brochures or any other "spec sheets" that may be available from the dealers. Open the driver's side door and look at the yellow sticker on the pillar. The payload capacity will be listed there for that particular vehicle as it left the factory. The sales info will be for the base unit and is, at best, an approximation of the weight ratings without consideration of the options (power seats, power windows, consoles, carpets, etc, etc.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jsmith948 View Post
Don't be misled by the sales brochures or any other "spec sheets" that may be available from the dealers. Open the driver's side door and look at the yellow sticker on the pillar. The payload capacity will be listed there for that particular vehicle as it left the factory. The sales info will be for the base unit and is, at best, an approximation of the weight ratings without consideration of the options (power seats, power windows, consoles, carpets, etc, etc.
Thanks for that tip!
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:17 AM   #7
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I'm a wildlife / mountain / nature photographer by trade, 40+ years.
WA Forest Service buys a lot of my photos as well as the local area tourist stores such as Mt Rainier Visitors Center Store... so I get around. Here is last years trips I took:
http://www.1-4u-computer-graphics.co...In_NW_2017.htm
Especially check out Mt Adams/Takhlakh Lake link.
Now you see why I needed a better trailer and rig to tow it with.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:29 AM   #8
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Very impressive photos. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:55 AM   #9
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Jack, I can't really add anything to what has been said other than to be very careful in conversations with car salesmen. I don't believe the majority are dishonest, I simply believe they are in the dark where capacities/limits are concerned.
However, I can say that your photos are fabulous and I id learn that feeding the wildlife in Washington will cost one about $532 per occurrence. Those little rascals can find their own food!
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:11 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
Jack, I can't really add anything to what has been said other than to be very careful in conversations with car salesmen. I don't believe the majority are dishonest, I simply believe they are in the dark where capacities/limits are concerned.
However, I can say that your photos are fabulous and I id learn that feeding the wildlife in Washington will cost one about $532 per occurrence. Those little rascals can find their own food!
Ah... you found my racoon begging next to the "Don't feed the wildlife" sign. Seems to me he was saying, "Ignore the sign, ignore the sign!" LOL
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:13 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tinner12002 View Post
Definitely not a jeep wrangler but possibly a grand Cherokee, with V-6 or V-8 they have about 7200lb towing cap in 4WD. Personally I'd go with the V-8, check the tow ratings for each tow vehicle your looking at. The newer F-150s are good for 10,000lbs towing I believe. Just depends whether you want an suv or truck.
Newer F-150s can tow a lot more than 10,000 lbs., depending upon engine, rear axle ratio, cab configuration, type of tow package installed, etc.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jack65 View Post
My wife prefers SUV style over pickup, even though like Bob says, the pickup probably tows better.
That is correct according to the Jeep charts.
I'll be looking at one of each tomorrow at the dealership where we got our Ford Edge from:
I think you are right at, if not beyond, the safe towing capability of the typical "family" SUV (e.g., "Edge"), unless you go into the larger versions, such as an Explorer/Expedition, Tahoe/Suburban, etc., with a bigger engine.

In addition to engine power, the tow vehicle must have sufficient suspension, braking power, and weight to not let the "trailer tail wag the dog," so to speak. Plus, be sure to invest in a good, anti-sway, weight distribution hitch. Look at some of those "trailer sway" videos on YouTube to see what I'm talking about. I find my F-150 easily handles my Passport ML199, which has about the same GVW rating as your Outback. I don't think I'd want to tow with anything much smaller. Just my .02 worth
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by LFord View Post
I think you are right at, if not beyond, the safe towing capability of the typical "family" SUV (e.g., "Edge"), unless you go into the larger versions, such as an Explorer/Expedition, Tahoe/Suburban, etc., with a bigger engine.

In addition to engine power, the tow vehicle must have sufficient suspension, braking power, and weight to not let the "trailer tail wag the dog," so to speak. Plus, be sure to invest in a good, anti-sway, weight distribution hitch. Look at some of those "trailer sway" videos on YouTube to see what I'm talking about. I find my F-150 easily handles my Passport ML199, which has about the same GVW rating as your Outback. I don't think I'd want to tow with anything much smaller. Just my .02 worth
We wanted to upgrade to the Explorer, but those are maxed at 5,000 lbs towing.
We're going to look at this tomorrow.
http://www.tituswillford.com/tacoma-new-cars/detail/New-2018-Ford-F-150-XL-2WD-SuperCab-65'-Box/982/1FTEX1CP4JKC85307
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jack65 View Post
We wanted to upgrade to the Explorer, but those are maxed at 5,000 lbs towing.
We're going to look at this tomorrow.
http://www.tituswillford.com/tacoma-...EX1CP4JKC85307
That should do it! It's basically a 2018 version of my 2013 F-150, except that one has the 2.7 liter ecoboost engine, and mine has the 3.5L EB. You can call Ford Motor Company customer service, give them the VIN on that truck, and they can confirm the factory tow package that is installed and give you an exact towing capability figure. Probably in the 7500 to 8000 lb. range at least. You want the tow vehicle to have some towing "headroom" over and above what the trailer will be grossed-out at. That truck should give you close to 2,000 lb. margin over the trailer GVW rating, and that is a comfortable margin, especially if you're going to be towing it up and down mountains!
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:47 AM   #15
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Jack65,

Some of the above comments "warn" about watching the GVW/Payload stickers on the specific truck, not believing all the brochure marketing and to be wary of salesman claims..... Looking at the specific truck you posted in the link, there is a perfect example of what they were talking about:

In the dealership link, the following is quoted:
"TRAILER TOW PACKAGE W/101A -inc: Towing capability up to 11,100 lbs, Class IV Trailer Hitch Receiver, towing capability up to 5,000 lbs, on 3.3L V6 PFDI engine (99B) and 2.7L EcoBoost engine (99P) or up to 7,000 lbs, on 3.5L EcoBoost engine (99G..."

and:
"TRAILER TOW PACKAGE -inc: Towing capability up to 11,100 lbs, Class IV Trailer Hitch Receiver, towing capability up to 5,000 lbs, on 3.3L V6 PFDI engine (99B) and 2.7L EcoBoost engine (99P) or up to 7,000 lbs, on 3.5L EcoBoost engine (99G) and ..."

The truck, according to the window sticker, is equipped with the 2.7L EcoBoost enging and the $995 trailer towing package. That would, if I'm reading the data correctly, mean that the truck is limited to 5,000 pound trailers.

You might want to do some very cautious research on that specific truck before you buy. My guess is that it's going to be "maxed out" with that trailer. While there are a number of F-150 models that can tow up to 11,100 pounds (when properly equipped), that specific truck, according to the information on the dealer's webpage, indicates that it's not "properly equipped"... It's a case of "buyer beware" so do your homework before signing on the bottom line !!!!!

ADDED: Looking further at the window sticker, that truck has a 6400# GVW package. I'd guess the truck weighs close to 5000 pounds, maybe a bit more, meaning the payload (passengers, gear, hitch and trailer tongue) will come very close to or over the truck maximum. Typically, F150's equipped for towing large trailers have a GVW closer to 7200-7600 pounds and a payload over 1700 pounds. This truck, from the window sticker, is a "light duty F150 with the smallest V-6 EcoBoost engine, meaning (at least to me) that it is not equipped for "heavy duty towing".... YMMV
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:59 AM   #16
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"The truck, according to the window sticker, is equipped with the 2.7L EcoBoost enging and the $995 trailer towing package. That would, if I'm reading the data correctly, mean that the truck is limited to 5,000 pound trailers."

Being familiar with the F-150 family, that statement is not necessarily correct, as that combination should tow a lot more than 5,000 lbs. (which is typically the "bumper-mounted" tow ball limitation). That is why is suggested calling Ford Motor Company customer service, giving them the VIN and they can verify the exact tow package installed and the actual towing capacity limit. Or, get one of the Ford-published towing guides for the 2018 F-150 line, get a copy of the window sticker for that truck, and look-up the towing limit for the given installed equipment.

By your reading of the "data," my truck would be limited to 5,000 lbs., and it is not.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:59 AM   #17
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Jack, here's my thinking.

At 6k gvw it puts the trailer above anything I would want to pull with a mid size anything (Explorer, Grand Cherokee, 4runner etc.). It also puts it above what I'd be comfortable with in something like a Tacoma. The issue is control, not "pulling". In an SUV I would only consider a Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade or an Expedition. A full size 1/2 ton truck of any brand, properly equipped, should do nicely.

I rented an 18 Grand Cherokee for a week and put about 2000 miles on it. It had the V6 - I wouldn't pull a trailer of any size with it. I have a 17 4Runner and had a 17 Explorer before it.....I wouldn't pull that trailer with either.

You said your wife wants an SUV, and I understand that completely - my wife is the same way. She didn't mind driving my truck at all when I drove 1/2 tons; she does not like the HD 4x4 3/4 ton (all my 1/2 tons were 4x4).
To me the truck offers SO much more versatility with what you can do. And, todays 1/2 ton trucks are roomier than most cars AND more comfortable than the mid size 4 wheel SUVs generally. You do lose the covered cargo area of an SUV, which we love, but I fixed that with a bed cover although not as convenient. I can see with a lot of photography gear where that would be important.

As Jim pointed out; do your homework on what you want to buy....don't listen to the salesman. Seems anymore the sales folks are taught all the "comfort" sales points and know nothing of the technical aspects.....unless it's "this is the Hellcat, it puts out over 700 hp. We drove it out the highway and pulled her down at 178 mph".......really? Look at the door stickers, read up on the prospective unit. Remember that "towing" ability is really a moot point. If you are going to max out the towing capability of an SUV/truck you are probably going to exceed one or more of the other weight parameters. Good luck I finding something suitable for you.

BTW, EXCELLENT pictures! I didn't bring my big camera and lenses with me on this trip to FL (forgot) and we have been blessed with seemingly endless encounters with bald eagles and Ospreys. They are beautiful birds and you got some beautiful pics....thanks.

Edit: I had not read the 2 posts above when I posted. If you are looking at a pickup with the 2.7L Ecoboost - don't IMO. I drove a 17 Edge with one in CO for a month and was not impressed....at all, other than it is more powerful than a non boosted engine of similar size. It certainly would never fall into a category of something able to pull a full size truck plus a trailer - Wolf Creek Pass was enough for it.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:13 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by LFord View Post
"The truck, according to the window sticker, is equipped with the 2.7L EcoBoost enging and the $995 trailer towing package. That would, if I'm reading the data correctly, mean that the truck is limited to 5,000 pound trailers."

Being familiar with the F-150 family, that statement is not necessarily correct, as that combination should tow a lot more than 5,000 lbs. (which is typically the "bumper-mounted" tow ball limitation). That is why is suggested calling Ford Motor Company customer service, giving them the VIN and they can verify the exact tow package installed and the actual towing capacity limit. Or, get one of the Ford-published towing guides for the 2018 F-150 line, get a copy of the window sticker for that truck, and look-up the towing limit for the given installed equipment.

By your reading of the "data," my truck would be limited to 5,000 lbs., and it is not.
Also, I think this pickup which has "10 speed auto & 3.73 gear ratio" it should be able to tow 7,200 lbs easily as I know those factors are an important part of it, keeping the RPM's up on mountain pulling. As a few mentioned here, especially sourdough it looks like a SUV is out. Wifey is not gonna be happy with that as she wanted a blue SUV this time.

Edit: looks like this pickup might be "out" because of the 2.7L Ecoboost engine?

BTW, I'm amazed at all the great replies here... I posted the same question over on the Outbacker.com forum before I found this forum and have yet to get one reply there.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:20 AM   #19
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Quote: "Edit: I had not read the 2 posts above when I posted. If you are looking at a pickup with the 2.7L Ecoboost - don't IMO. I drove a 17 Edge with one in CO for a month and was not impressed....at all, other than it is more powerful than a non boosted engine of similar size. It certainly would never fall into a category of something able to pull a full size truck plus a trailer - Wolf Creek Pass was enough for it."

You really need to do a lot more research on the ecoboost line, including the 2018 F-150 with the 2.7 liter EB before making a statement like that. The 2018 2.7L EB in the F-150 has 400 lb/feet of torque. That's plenty for a 6000 GVW trailer with a Class IV hitch system and WDH. Your 6.4 liter V8 has only 429 lb-ft, and you have to rev it up to 4000 rpm to get it. The 2.7 liter EB has its 400 lb-ft available at 2750 rpm. Guess who's going to be burning more gas? (Not that towing MPG is great in any TV!).
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFord View Post
"The truck, according to the window sticker, is equipped with the 2.7L EcoBoost enging and the $995 trailer towing package. That would, if I'm reading the data correctly, mean that the truck is limited to 5,000 pound trailers."

Being familiar with the F-150 family, that statement is not necessarily correct, as that combination should tow a lot more than 5,000 lbs. (which is typically the "bumper-mounted" tow ball limitation). That is why is suggested calling Ford Motor Company customer service, giving them the VIN and they can verify the exact tow package installed and the actual towing capacity limit. Or, get one of the Ford-published towing guides for the 2018 F-150 line, get a copy of the window sticker for that truck, and look-up the towing limit for the given installed equipment.

By your reading of the "data," my truck would be limited to 5,000 lbs., and it is not.
You might want to actually read the information on the dealer's website and, for the record, the window sticker for that specific truck is linked on the site. The window sticker indicates the trailer tow package is included (that's where I got the $995 price) and there is ABSOLUTELY NO" information on towing limitations on the window sticker.

There is a significant difference between your 2016 F150 with the 3.5L EcoBoost engine and the 2018 F150 with the 2.7L EcoBoost engine. Additionally, the specifications section on the Ford website indicates this truck can tow "8400 pounds with a GCWR of 13,300 pounds" If you do the math, with that truck's GVW of 6400 pounds and a max GCWR of 13,300, the maximum trailer weight would be 6900 pounds. So, even between the dealership and Ford's own specifications, there is significant difference in the ratings on that truck line. It's important, at least to me, to caution Jack65 to do his research before spending his money.

While my objective is NOT to argue with another "disinterested" (read: Not spending your own money) I do feel that it is important to not "accept all the good information and ignore the negative information" about the truck.

It is, in my opinion, very important that Jack65 do his "due diligence" with that truck BEFORE he buys it. As I said, it's not your money and not my money, so we really don't get a vote in the contract. All I wanted to bring to his attention is that the dealer's own information indicates the truck is limited to 5,000 pound trailer weight...... If you feel that he should buy it "be damned what the website says", then that's certainly your privilege. I've been "SCREWED" by listening to people who want to spend my money enough times that I prefer to read all the "small print" and always appreciate someone bringing that to my attention before I make a mistake. YMMV.
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