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07-10-2017, 04:56 AM
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#41
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated
What's so unique about a 3/4T truck? It has a payload capacity, a GVWR, a GCWR, an axle weight rating front and rear, a trailer towing capacity weight rating, all the things that every other truck out there has. It has limits just like every other truck does. It doesn't sound unique to me!. The stickers and ratings are there for a reason. Whether you choose to abide by them or not is on you....but if you don't, that still doesn't change the ratings/capacities, just like airbags don't change the capacities of a truck. And so I'm curious....what are "The rest of the facts" that you speak of? Enlighten me/us!
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What is unique is, in many cases a 3/4-ton truck is the same truck as its 1-ton SRW sibling. Its 10,000 GVWR is a paper-only rating and is not an accurate reflection of its true abilities.
This has been discussed ad nauseam. Some agree, some don't.
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07-10-2017, 05:53 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkainz
I'm 59 ... I think you're one of the "Old Guys" ... I think that officially happens when we revert to our single digit years method of counting age "adding the 'and a half' qualifier"?
I know ... Social Security causes that ... counting the days until we can start drawing on OUR MONEY that WE involuntarily contributed to a retirement system that has some how been categorized as "THEIR MONEY" now ...
Sorry ... didn't mean to get political!
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OK, I'm going with that....I'm officially an "old guy". . I haven't started the SS yet, and hope to wait on that for a few more years.....maybe 2.7583 years!
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-10-2017, 06:36 AM
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#43
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH
... and this forum is filled with old guys that won't do anything unless some government sticker says it is ok.
Unless you aren't paying attention, 3/4-ton trucks are a unique animal. Don't be too quick to condemn unless unless you know all the facts. The sticker is NOT all the facts.
The truck forums have a much greater knowledge base in this regard. RV forums tend to be a bunch of nanny-staters that don't do anything unless .gov says it is ok and can't think for themselves.
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Hmmm.....how does that old saying go? "Me thinks ye know not of what ye speak?"
I guess I have to admit being an old guy, but "nanny stater"; not hardly. Won't do anything unless a sticker tells me to....not hardly. Can't think for themselves? I can only laugh "at you" for saying something like that.
Your comments come from someone that hasn't been around long enough to have life slap you upside the head a few times for making bad decisions. Wait around, you'll see the light....hopefully. On the other hand, if you HAVE been around long enough to know better and still post comments like the above, well............
As far as truck forums and their knowledge base in the nuances of towing - ain't happening. If I want to know about the latest/greatest/bestest chip, exhaust system, cam, tire/wheel combo etc. I'll go there and ask. How much I can drop on a hitch...no. Reaction of a specific truck to a given load.....heck no.
I think harleydodge hit it on the head. The folks on this forum are about 40 years older, and more experienced, than the "greenhorns" on most truck forums. We've grown past the "I want the baddest, coolest, biggest tires I can get on my truck - even if they're 4" wider than what the rim allows" syndrome, the "what's the baddest sounding, LOUDEST muffler can I put on my truck to make is sound really bad", the "what mods can I make so my truck can lay an extra car length of rubber" syndromes as well. We're into the more mundane things of life; having fun with our campers and whatever else, taking the families along for the fun times and keeping everyone safe ON AN UNEVENTFUL TRIP without trying to cut corners. And no, a 3/4 ton is not a different animal. It is the animal it is and they are strictly defined. If you don't want THAT animal you need to pick another one. Not pretend your Chihuahua is a Doberman - and IF you are pretending I would suggest you never put your Chihuahua head to head with a real Doberman.
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07-10-2017, 07:15 AM
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#44
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
Hmmm.....how does that old saying go? "Me thinks ye know not of what ye speak?"
I guess I have to admit being an old guy, but "nanny stater"; not hardly. Won't do anything unless a sticker tells me to....not hardly. Can't think for themselves? I can only laugh "at you" for saying something like that.
Your comments come from someone that hasn't been around long enough to have life slap you upside the head a few times for making bad decisions. Wait around, you'll see the light....hopefully. On the other hand, if you HAVE been around long enough to know better and still post comments like the above, well............
As far as truck forums and their knowledge base in the nuances of towing - ain't happening. If I want to know about the latest/greatest/bestest chip, exhaust system, cam, tire/wheel combo etc. I'll go there and ask. How much I can drop on a hitch...no. Reaction of a specific truck to a given load.....heck no.
I think harleydodge hit it on the head. The folks on this forum are about 40 years older, and more experienced, than the "greenhorns" on most truck forums. We've grown past the "I want the baddest, coolest, biggest tires I can get on my truck - even if they're 4" wider than what the rim allows" syndrome, the "what's the baddest sounding, LOUDEST muffler can I put on my truck to make is sound really bad", the "what mods can I make so my truck can lay an extra car length of rubber" syndromes as well. We're into the more mundane things of life; having fun with our campers and whatever else, taking the families along for the fun times and keeping everyone safe ON AN UNEVENTFUL TRIP without trying to cut corners. And no, a 3/4 ton is not a different animal. It is the animal it is and they are strictly defined. If you don't want THAT animal you need to pick another one. Not pretend your Chihuahua is a Doberman - and IF you are pretending I would suggest you never put your Chihuahua head to head with a real Doberman.
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On a 2016 model year, I have pulled axles and ping/pinion on F250 and F350 SRW trucks. Also compared part numbers. Also have verified at the parts counter. Also have verified spring codes.
On an F250 with the factory overload spring, it is the exact same truck as the F350 SRW. The difference between them is a GVWR of 10,000 (F250) and 11,500 (F350 SRW)... which is a paper difference and not a physical difference.
That is what I am saying. Blindly thinking a 3/4-ton is a different truck is not true in all cases.
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07-10-2017, 07:39 AM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH
On a 2016 model year, I have pulled axles and ping/pinion on F250 and F350 SRW trucks. Also compared part numbers. Also have verified at the parts counter. Also have verified spring codes.
On an F250 with the factory overload spring, it is the exact same truck as the F350 SRW. The difference between them is a GVWR of 10,000 (F250) and 11,500 (F350 SRW)... which is a paper difference and not a physical difference.
That is what I am saying. Blindly thinking a 3/4-ton is a different truck is not true in all cases.
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In the eyes of the State of Texas and I'm sure many other states they are indeed very different trucks...
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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07-10-2017, 07:41 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 375
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Having towed a Montana with a 2500 and now a 3500, I can say several things. The 2500 was equipped with exhaust brake, air bags and a 6 speed manual. With a CTD, it had more than enough power. At nearly 200,000 miles, it still had the original brakes and they were not close to needing replacement. Air bags were used to level the units, not to increase load capacity. I have been driving trucks of all kinds since the early '60s including pickups towing trailers. While we never had a white knuckle moment with the 2500, we knew we were on the edge. In places like Vail pass and Slumgullion pass in Colorado, we were going really slow to maintain control and always did. With the 3500, we are not nearly as close to the edge. A newby with little experience towing might not be as lucky. The experienced truck driver can get away with a smaller, older tow vehicle. We still wonder at the new rigs going down the interstate at the posted limit, either 70 or 75 mph. Obviously a newby. Maybe they will learn without a life changing experience; maybe they won't.
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07-10-2017, 08:02 AM
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#47
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH
On a 2016 model year, I have pulled axles and ping/pinion on F250 and F350 SRW trucks. Also compared part numbers. Also have verified at the parts counter. Also have verified spring codes.
On an F250 with the factory overload spring, it is the exact same truck as the F350 SRW. The difference between them is a GVWR of 10,000 (F250) and 11,500 (F350 SRW)... which is a paper difference and not a physical difference.
That is what I am saying. Blindly thinking a 3/4-ton is a different truck is not true in all cases.
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My oh my, I go to bed early one night (yup, I'm an old fart) and wake up to this series of posts, reviving the "An F250 is really an F350 in drag" (you know, the females are not as strong as males argument) Not that I believe that, but it's the same kind of "YOU CAN'T WIN THIS ARGUMENT" argument......
EXCEPT that an F250 does not come equipped with the additional overload springs (unless optioned in either the towing package or the camper package or the snow plow package (<front axle HD springs>). There are significant differences in how the F250 is built depending on what options are included. The F350 comes standard with the overload springs. They aren't the same truck, but can be optioned with much of the same spring packages. In fact, an F250 "CAN BE" ordered with heavier springs than the "standard build F350". That doesn't make it a heavy duty F350, it's still limited to a 10K GVW. What it CAN carry and what it's CAPABLE of carrying are not the same.
As an added "water muddier", you can order an F350 with a GVW of 10K, 10.5K, 10.8K, 11K, 11.2K, 11.4K or 11.5K and they all come equipped with the same overload springs. That doesn't mean much, except for LEGAL considerations. Just like the F250 argument, it's the LEGAL not the physical capability that gets you a ticket and/or a lawsuit.
A rhetorical comment: Maybe that's why men can't legally compete in women's sporting events, they look the same but have different equipment, although they certainly have the physical capacity to compete, they "lack" in the legal aspects.....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-10-2017, 11:58 AM
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#48
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Boling
Posts: 19
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Maybe it's because I'm a youngster (48yoa) or just stupid (I'm not new to towing, so that can't be the reason), but why doesn't common sense dictate that you might not want to take unnecessary chances by being overloaded? The numbers from the manufacturers are not "guidelines." Aside from ego and bravado, why would someone jeopardize the safety of loved ones and expensive vehicles and equipment hurtling down the road at highway/near highway speeds, the lives and property of others notwithstanding? Can you old codgers enlighten a poor waif like me why running overloaded is ever reasonable?
__________________
Light travels faster than sound.
That is why some people appear to be bright
until you hear them speak.
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07-10-2017, 12:17 PM
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#49
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,690
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There are a couple on here that might try to explain their rationalization, but, in the end, it's impossible to explain the inexplicable. You ask some very good, pertinent questions and the answer to them is really simple; there are no rational reasons to run overloaded other than those you alluded to, or, in some cases, finances, which I can understand. But even then, you shouldn't say it's OK because you don't believe all the printed restrictions, or it's "government" etc. But then again, I'm one of those "old guys" afraid of his shadow, unable to make a decision on his own praying for a nanny state every day ha! ha! LOL
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07-10-2017, 01:21 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
We've been down this same road so many times and this issue never gets solved.
There are two issues here: can I tow it and should I tow it. The tower has to make the choice on these. People can chime in with their opinions, and they will, when asked these questions.
Those who have been there, me included, will always advocate for towing within the posted limits of the TV. Those who haven't been there will advocate that pushing the limits of the TV is ok, because they've done it, survived and it's ok.
For newbies, the forum will always advocate for towing within the limits. That's the safe and responsible thing to do for someone who asks. Telling someone who is inexperienced that sure they can do it is irresponsible. There is a huge difference between an experienced tower pulling overweight and an inexperienced tower pulling overweight. I for one could not and would not want to put someone in a situation they are not prepared for.
You may do it and feel comfortable doing it. But remember, they are not you. They have different life experiences, different talents, and different equipment. Just because you do it does not mean that everyone should do it. That's really the bottom line.
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Of all the posts on the 3/4 - 1 ton subject this is the most sensible response written. Dealing with the GVWR sticker has been difficult for some, including myself.
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07-10-2017, 01:35 PM
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#51
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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So... if I pulled off the 11,500 GVWR sticker off of the F350 SRW and put on a 10,000 GVWR sticker, did the metallurgy change somehow? LOL... because that is the situation I am describing.
These discussions are so comical!
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07-10-2017, 01:41 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalobillh
Maybe it's because I'm a youngster (48yoa) or just stupid (I'm not new to towing, so that can't be the reason), but why doesn't common sense dictate that you might not want to take unnecessary chances by being overloaded? The numbers from the manufacturers are not "guidelines." Aside from ego and bravado, why would someone jeopardize the safety of loved ones and expensive vehicles and equipment hurtling down the road at highway/near highway speeds, the lives and property of others notwithstanding? Can you old codgers enlighten a poor waif like me why running overloaded is ever reasonable?
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As an "official" old codger (I've been voted in) I have a one sentence answer to your question.
"Common sense, is not very common these days"!
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-10-2017, 01:47 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH
So... if I pulled off the 11,500 GVWR sticker off of the F350 SRW and put on a 10,000 GVWR sticker, did the metallurgy change somehow? LOL... because that is the situation I am describing.
These discussions are so comical!
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Haven't you figured it out...It's all about the sticker!
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07-10-2017, 01:57 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
A rhetorical comment: Maybe that's why men can't legally compete in women's sporting events, they look the same but have different equipment, although they certainly have the physical capacity to compete, they "lack" in the legal aspects.....
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SSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO if one puts air bags on their 3/4 ton truck does that make it legal? It should be equivalent to Bruce Jenner going to Caitlyn Jenner 3/4 bagged = 1 Ton, both are now legal one to play in female sports the other to haul a load over 10,000 LB's. JUST TO MAKE CERTAIN THIS IS NOT TAKEN THE WRONG WAY THIS IS A JOKE
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07-10-2017, 02:32 PM
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#55
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G
Of all the posts on the 3/4 - 1 ton subject this is the most sensible response written. Dealing with the GVWR sticker has been difficult for some, including myself.
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Dealing with the sticker limitations CAN be difficult if you didn't know about it and it's the first time you heard of it. I know it was for me. I grew up never thinking about weights; if you could get it on the truck or tractor and it would go, you were good. I did it when I was younger with a 1/4 ton Ford Ranger; until the load almost pushed me over a cliff. That's when I started paying attention to weights....and I still didn't know about "the sticker".
I've known about "the sticker" for many years now. It's there. It says what it says. I KNOW what it says before I buy the truck. It's the rule/law. I know I can disregard it and pull what I want; I also know that it's not only wrong to do so, but illegal. I choose to do the right, safe and legal thing. It's a mindset that we have to develop - sort of like having to drive 55 on a straight highway with no traffic......
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07-10-2017, 02:33 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
We've been down this same road so many times and this issue never gets solved.
There are two issues here: can I tow it and should I tow it. The tower has to make the choice on these. People can chime in with their opinions, and they will, when asked these questions.
Those who have been there, me included, will always advocate for towing within the posted limits of the TV. Those who haven't been there will advocate that pushing the limits of the TV is ok, because they've done it, survived and it's ok.
For newbies, the forum will always advocate for towing within the limits. That's the safe and responsible thing to do for someone who asks. Telling someone who is inexperienced that sure they can do it is irresponsible. There is a huge difference between an experienced tower pulling overweight and an inexperienced tower pulling overweight. I for one could not and would not want to put someone in a situation they are not prepared for.
You may do it and feel comfortable doing it. But remember, they are not you. They have different life experiences, different talents, and different equipment. Just because you do it does not mean that everyone should do it. That's really the bottom line.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G
Of all the posts on the 3/4 - 1 ton subject this is the most sensible response written. Dealing with the GVWR sticker has been difficult for some, including myself.
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Could not agree more, CTBruce, has the correct read on the subject. One really needs a full understanding of how and why these GVWR are arrived at, if they are considering towing over their TV GVWR.
The biggest issues is educating those new to towing a trailer, the importance of tongue or pin weight is to stability and comfort towing.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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07-10-2017, 02:58 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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So it seems after I dug up the spec sheet for the model year 2015 (pick another if you like), there are some other differences between the F250 and the F350 SRW. Granted, not a lot, but yes, there are some. The F350 SRW has a higher rear axle weight rating, the ring gear pitch is different, the rear axle shaft spline diameter is bigger on the F350 (read beefier)...even the number of splines is different. There may be some others, but I really didn't feel like spending my evening researching everything.
So, the above mentioned items seem to me that they would go a long way towards making the F350 SRW verifiably stronger than the F250 AND, it's not just a case of springs that are different. Something to consider for sure, and especially if you are inclined to ignore the manufacturer's weight rating capacities.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-10-2017, 03:17 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Could not agree more, CTBruce, has the correct read on the subject. One really needs a full understanding of how and why these GVWR are arrived at, if they are considering towing over their TV GVWR.
The biggest issues is educating those new to towing a trailer, the importance of tongue or pin weight is to stability and comfort towing.
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That eminent philosopher, Harry Callahan, opines:
__________________
Desert185 🇺🇸 (Retired Chemtrail vendor)
-Ram 2500 QC, LB, 4x4, Cummins HO/exhaust brake, 6-speed stick.
-Andersen Ultimate 24K 5er Hitch.
-2014 Cougar 326SRX, Maxxis tires w/TPMS, wet bolts, two 6v batts.
-Four Wheel 8' Popup Camper.
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07-10-2017, 03:29 PM
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#59
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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Is Caitlin Jenner an old codger? <
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__________________
Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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07-10-2017, 03:55 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
Is Caitlin Jenner an old codger? <
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I'm not sure that "codger" adequately describes it!.....but my comment would most likely get me booted for a while, so I'll just hold my cards on that one!
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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