GMC gas or diesel for 312bh?

[frankenstang]

I am shopping for a new(er) truck now. The 1500 Sierra isn't enough to pull the trailer. Just got a used 2014 Outback 312bh.
I found a nice used 2013 Duramax Quad cab locally with only 17k miles on it. The dealer has the truck listed for $42k. I might be able to talk them down to $40K. Obviously, that truck is more than enough to pull and STOP that camper.

Had the trailer weighed and we're at 8450 lbs without water or food and clothing. So we will be using every bit of the trailer's 9000lb GVWR.

I have my heart stuck on a 2015 Stone Blue Metallic GMC 2500 quad cab. That truck is the 6.0 gasser with the 6 spd. Best price I can get is around 46k.


Here's the rub, my drive to work is only 10 miles round trip each day. I am concerned that the short trip 90% driving will be an issue with a diesel. We can use the truck as much as possible for longer drives during non-camping season.

The new 2015 is a totally different truck than the 2013 d-max. It's SO NICE inside compared to the Chevy. And I really don't want the maintenance of the diesel if I can avoid it. So many pluses though as far as towing and not worrying about 'enough truck'

Payload works out as a wash due to the weight of the drivetrain. 9500 GVWR for the gas truck and 10000 for the oil burner.

Love the looks and features of the 2015, love the towing capacity of the 2013 D-max. My buddy is on his 2nd one in the NNBS trucks. His new 2015 Silverado is amazing.

Thanks for helping. -- Joe

[chuckster57]

IMO, short commute, DD means gasser. If the payloads are a wash, I wouldn't buy the diesel with higher maintenance costs.

[hankpage]

I can't see why folks say "Maintenance of a diesel" ..... You fill the tank change the oil and go ... the rest of the truck is the same as a gasser so maintenance will be the same except you will be filling the tank more often on the gasser. JM2¢, Hank ............. even if I didn't tow anymore I would still stay with diesel.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by hankpage

I can't see why folks say "Maintenance of a diesel" ..... You fill the tank change the oil and go ... the rest of the truck is the same as a gasser so maintenance will be the same except you will be filling the tank more often on the gasser. JM2¢, Hank ............. even if I didn't tow anymore I would still stay with diesel.

Oil/filter changes are quite a bit more with a diesel and unless things have changed, the change interval in a gasser is longer.

Diesel fuel in this area is 20-30 cents/gallon more. Don't get me wrong, I love my diesel truck.

[Javi]

I drove diesel duallys for years while working in the Ag business, afterwards I traded for 1/2 ton pickups but was never completely happy and after getting back into trailer camping with a 1/2 ton towable I stayed with gas until it was obvious that it wasn't going to work. After a brief (3 years) of a F250 diesel I'm back in a dually diesel and see no reason to ever go back unless I totally give up trailer camping.

Don't let the horror stories folks use to justify driving gas pickups.. The upkeep year to year isn't that big a deal and is even comparable to the gas trucks. But the ease of towing is incomparable between the two, apples and oranges.

One word of advice I'd offer you... bigger trailers lead to even bigger trailers and if you don't want the cost of experience to keep adding up... go big truck then next year or the year after you won't be right back here looking at a bigger truck to pull your new trailer...

I got that "T-shirt" and it cost me about $20K...

[jsmith948]

This ^^^^^^^^^!.
As to the cost of diesel fuel vs. gasoline....run the numbers and you will find that, with the better fuel mileage of the diesel, your fuel costs will be a push.
JMHO - but the numbers prove it for me

[shov]

I too am a strong champion of the diesel truck. I have owned both and even if I stop towing a RV (), I just love my diesel. Even if the price of fuel is higher. It's nice to have it when you need it.

[C130]

I bought my first diesel four years ago and I'm now on my second one. I don't ever plan on going back to gas, I love the diesel. I'm not sure if it's best for your situation and they definitely cost more but around here the resale is great. Good luck in your decision.

I'm not sure how many dealers do this but mine offers a deal if you prepay, you get four oil changes for $199. I think it comes out to one free vs. paying for them individually. It seems fuel filters get replaced every other oil change.

The new GMC's do look great though, tough decision. Maybe a new Duramax!

[audio1der]

Based on how it sounds you'll use the truck OVERALL< I'd go with the gasser if it were my money. I'm not anti-diesel, it just doesn't sound like you need it.

[JRTJH]

I am shopping for a Ford diesel, and have just "run the numbers" using the Ford recommended service intervals and the only "comprehensive Ford price guide" for doing the services. While Longmont Ford is nowhere near me, their costs seem to be "in line" with the costs locally. Whether or not they are, the costs of servicing a gas or a diesel at that facility is "comparative" to each other. So, here's what I found:

Ford Diesel Service Recommendations: Heavy service (towing) oil/filter change every 7500 miles, fuel filter change every 3rd oil change.

Ford Gas Service Recommendations: Heavy service (towing) oil/filter change every 5000 miles, fuel filter change (lifetime, no change required).

So, for 100,000 miles of driving: Diesel= 13 oil changes and 4 fuel filter changes
For 100,000 miles of driving: Gas= 20 oil changes

Now, using the Longmont Ford price guide: http://www.longmontford.com/custom/service-price-guide

6.7L diesel oil change: 150.00 x 13 = $1950
6.7L diesel fuel filter change: 149.95 x 4 = 599.80

Total for 100,000 miles is 2549.80

6.2L gas oil change (7 quarts): 51.50 x 20 = $1030
6.2L gas fuel change: Not required'

Fuel vs Gas: Assume they both cost the same per gallon and Diesel tows at 13 MPG while Gas tows at 10 MPG. Assume the cost of both is $2.50 per gallon.

To tow 100,000 miles, Diesel would use 7692 gallons Gas would use 10,000 gallons.

Diesel fuel 7692 x $2.50 = $19,230
Gasoline 10000 x 2.50 = $25,000

Total cost: Diesel 2549 + 19.230 = 21,779
Total cost: Gas 1030 + 25,000 = 26,030

The above costs do not include any maintenance other than oil/fuel filter changes and the cost of fuel/gas.

As you can see, in the first 100,000 miles, the diesel actually saves $4251.

As the cost of the diesel option is usually about $8000, about half of that, or 4000 is the actual cost to drive a diesel vs a gas engine Ford F350. Now, if you look at used truck prices, you'll find that the average cost of a 5 year old diesel truck is about $6000 more than the cost of a similar gas truck.

One could believe, I think, that even at trade in, it would be a "wash" as to whether you "pay more up front" and "it costs more to maintain a diesel".....

These numbers, cost at Longmont Ford and average MPG/fuel, gas costs can pretty much be changed to fit any particular area or maintenance plan, even if you do your own oil changes, the costs of oil/filters will pretty much work out the same (since labor is the same cost in my calculations).

Heck, the more I type this, the more I want to run down to Ford and look again this afternoon......

ADDED: If the price of diesel fuel was fifty cents a gallon more than gas ($3) the cost for fuel would be 7692 x 3.00 = 23076, still $2954 less than the price of gas for the same mileage.

[frankenstang]

Here's the D-max.... Same interior as the truck I have now, mine is a W/T can doesn't even have cruise control. It still would be a massive upgrade either way. Diesel fuel prices are down compared to last year, but 87 octane is down to $2.50/ gal here now.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...94056533&Log=0

Here's the GMC I'm looking at. It's so nice. And since the wife didn't want 'another' blue car, we got here the dark titanium color for her Fusion. I'd ge the blue truck either way.

http://www.sheboygangm.com/VehicleDe...-WI/2431249403

Here's why she didn't want a blue car...


This is where the rest of the disposable income went for the last 10 years.

[Ken / Claudia]

We all have choices, that's the good part. If your going to use the truck for what it was build for at 100% or 5% of the time why not get the Diesel, a sales manager said to me in 2001. 1 of 100 1 ton ford truck sales are gas. (just repeating what he said). If that is true ask why. I think several posts made that point.

[C130]

A little off topic but was looking at the estimated oil change costs. Do you guys with diesels use synthetic, is that what the $150 oil change was referring to? I purchased the Ford maintenance plan because I got a decent price on it but sure it's based on regular Motorcraft oil.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by C130

A little off topic but was looking at the estimated oil change costs. Do you guys with diesels use synthetic, is that what the $150 oil change was referring to? I purchased the Ford maintenance plan because I got a decent price on it but sure it's based on regular Motorcraft oil.

Here's the note from Longmont Ford:

"Longmont Ford services and repairs duramax and cummings engines. Our oil change prices will apply to Duramax and Cummings lines as well. Occasionally certain vehicles require a full synthetic oil or a very specific cartridge style oil filter and the oil change prices will be adjusted accordingly. Prices don't include taxes and disposal fees."

That came from this website: http://www.longmontford.com/custom/service-price-guide

So based on what it says about certain vehicles requiring full synthetic oil and the price will be adjusted accordingly, I'd guess that the answer is "no, they use Ford Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 15w40 oil.

When you do the math, dealerships charge about $5 a quart, 15x5= 75 plus the filter is $28, total of $103 in parts, I'd guess 0.5 hr @ 100 an hour ($50 labor) for a total of about $153 for the oil/filter change.

[therink]

My opinion based on my experience:
1) 2015 HDs are awesome. I have had a 05, 08, 12 and now a 15 (first dmax). The 15 interior/exterior and cab road noise level and fit/finish is superior by far.
2) How many miles do you plan on towing? Are you towing lots of hills often? Excessive amounts of either means diesel in my opinion.
3) The short commute daily not a big deal with Dmax, just means you would need to run it open Highway for about 40 miles every 400 miles or so to get a complete regen cycled.
4) What axle is in the gasser? You will definitely want or need a 4:10. 3:73 OK but 4:10 will help considerably when towing 10k lbs on hills.
5) How many years do you plan on keeping ythe truck?

All are good questions to cconsider before making the decision.

[GaryWT]

I am not going to run the numbers but here in Mass, the cost to buy is $8,000 less for gas, gas is $1 to $1.10 cheaper per gallon and I have had oil changes ar 2 locations, one charged $25 and one charged $35 so I am not sure where the $51.20 came from.

That said you need to go with the truck that will do the job today and in the future. Good luck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by GaryWT

I am not going to run the numbers but here in Mass, the cost to buy is $8,000 less for gas, gas is $1 to $1.10 cheaper per gallon and I have had oil changes ar 2 locations, one charged $25 and one charged $35 so I am not sure where the $51.20 came from.

That said you need to go with the truck that will do the job today and in the future. Good luck.

Go to the website: http://www.longmontford.com/custom/service-price-guide

That's where it came from.

I'm sure I can find a "jiffy lube" that will do it for $19.90 but I used the base price from a Ford dealership that had a website listing all the prices for their oil/filter/fuel filter changes. Locally, Ford advertises a $39.99 oil change. That's for filter and 5 quarts of synthetic blend oil. My truck uses 7 quarts, so that's an added $10 for the extra 2 quarts. That's 49.99 locally, about the same price as at Longmont Ford (from the website).

The surprising part for me was that the cost to operate for 100,000 miles was actually $4000 cheaper with diesel (at the same fuel price), it was about $2954 cheaper with diesel at 50 cents more per gallon and even with diesel at $1 a gallon more than gas, the operating costs were then the same. Granted, there is an $8000 extra cost to buy the diesel, but from the price of 5 year old diesel vs identical gas trucks, the resale is almost $5000 more for the diesel, meaning the actual cost to buy the diesel, when you trade it, is about $3000 more than a gas truck.

The reason I posted the costs was NOT to start an argument with "gas vs diesel" but to try to find an objective cost comparison for OPERATING expenses for both types of vehicles. Everyone keeps saying (and I thought) that gas is cheaper to maintain. It turns out that's not true. Actually, with diesel costing $1 more per gallon, the OPERATING expenses for the first 100,000 miles is almost identical. It surprised me to find that information.

[C130]

The four for $199 is a great deal at my dealer but you have to prepay. That's what I'd did on every oil change on my F250, saved a lot of money. That was not for synthetic though, just regular Motorcraft. Besides my fuel filters and a little more for an oil change my costs for my F250 were very low. I traded with 73,000 miles and they said around 80,000 miles my front brakes would probably need replacing.

I kept my 2011 F250 for almost exactly four years. My trade in value was $16,000 less than what I paid (minus taxes) for the truck new. I was pretty happy with a $4000 per year depreciation. I was within approximately 7000-8000 miles of needing new tires, brakes, and coolant flush.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by C130

A little off topic but was looking at the estimated oil change costs. Do you guys with diesels use synthetic, is that what the $150 oil change was referring to? I purchased the Ford maintenance plan because I got a decent price on it but sure it's based on regular Motorcraft oil.

I use Delo 15W-40. Three gal case from Costco for ~$33 on sale. The Cummins takes 10 qts. I use Cummins oil filters for $9/each. There is no mystery to doing your own oil changes.

For the OP. Get the diesel. Like Javi mentioned, you won't need to "upgrade" at a later date.

[larry337]

I don't even care about running the numbers. They're irrelevant to me. I'll never tow with a gasser. My diesel truck is my toy just as much as another man's Harley is to him. Your short trip to work would concern me though. For the record I don't use my truck as a daily driver, I have a Focus for that, my drive to work is longer then yours and it's actually the same cost for the extra car as what I'd spend in diesel. Keeps the miles off the truck and keeps it nice and clean in my pole barn. Plus it makes it that much more of a treat when I do drive it.