2014 Raptor 300mp Electrical question

[michaelrc51]

We have been running the generator at times to power the RV as I haven't excavated next to my house where it's home will be. I've noticed the battery that goes to start the generator has been down to 10v a couple times, once it's started it goes up to 13v so it is being charged.

My question is, does everyone's RV have one battery that is going directly to the generator or are the batteries paralleled?

Looking at the setup, I would think someone has messed with some of the wiring and the parallel cables were removed.

I'm assuming it was paralleled from the factory and someone changed it. How are other people's RVs with generators wired, both batts paralleled or one to start the generator and one going to RV?

[Fishsizzle]

If no one answers, I’ll have my step pop take a picture of his Fuzion set up. He had (2) batteries and we added (2) more. I’m out of town till Monday, but he can get pics sooner if you are in desperate need

[Brentw]

Mine was connected to the coach batteries, run your coach dead, no generator start.

[Fishsizzle]

I would imagine one battery isn’t enough for the the trailer. He might need to get a 2-3 battery set up with an isolator so the Gen start battery doesn’t get drawn down with the run batteries

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by Fishsizzle

I would imagine one battery isn’t enough for the the trailer. He might need to get a 2-3 battery set up with an isolator so the Gen start battery doesn’t get drawn down with the run batteries

Thanks.

I have 2 batteries, as it appears......1 is going straight to the generator and 1 is going to the RV.
If this is how it normally is, that is fine. My electrical background would tell me that both batteries should be wired in parallel, keeping the 12VDC but doubling up the amperage. But if that is how it normally is, that is fine.....it would isolate the generator start up battery from being drawn down with the RV.
It may be that I just need to get a new battery for the generator, not sure until I know how everything is set up.

Both batteries are Interstate sold dated 2/18 so I'd think they prob aren't bad.

I am new to RVs and I understand low and high voltage, I work with both for my job. I am trying to wrap my head around how everything in the RV is setup.

[JRTJH]

Something not yet addressed is the issue of battery damage by discharging them beyond recommended levels.

Most flooded lead/acid batteries (FLA) should not be discharged below 50% (for true deep cycle batteries) or 70% (for maintenance free/hybrid FLA batteries).

The voltage level for 50% discharge is 12.06 VDC and
the voltage level for 70% discharge is 12.32 VDC.

If you are reading 10 VDC then you (your system) is discharging your battery bank to a level far below the recommendations. That will critically reduce the battery's capacity to hold a charge and limit the "recycle capacity" (ability to be recharged over and over) for the future.

I'd suspect that if you've seen 10VDC at the battery (10.5 VDC is 0% charge) multiple times, then you've likely damaged that battery's capacity for longevity. It's going to fail sooner than it should, the question is when.

I'd fully charge the batteries, have them load tested and see if they are damaged. They may not hold an adequate charge any longer. And, even if they do, how long they will continue to maintain that capacity is questionable.

One member here stated that in his research, a battery that has been "fully discharged" (to less than 10.5 VDC) loses approximately 80% of its longevity for repeated charge/discharge cycles.

I'd suspect that your batteries may no longer be "undamaged with 100% capacity"...

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Something not yet addressed is the issue of battery damage by discharging them beyond recommended levels.

Most flooded lead/acid batteries (FLA) should not be discharged below 50% (for true deep cycle batteries) or 70% (for maintenance free/hybrid FLA batteries).

The voltage level for 50% discharge is 12.06 VDC and
the voltage level for 70% discharge is 12.32 VDC.

If you are reading 10 VDC then you (your system) is discharging your battery bank to a level far below the recommendations. That will critically reduce the battery's capacity to hold a charge and limit the "recycle capacity" (ability to be recharged over and over) for the future.

I'd suspect that if you've seen 10VDC at the battery (10.5 VDC is 0% charge) multiple times, then you've likely damaged that battery's capacity for longevity. It's going to fail sooner than it should, the question is when.

I'd fully charge the batteries, have them load tested and see if they are damaged. They may not hold an adequate charge any longer. And, even if they do, how long they will continue to maintain that capacity is questionable.

One member here stated that in his research, a battery that has been "fully discharged" (to less than 10.5 VDC) loses approximately 80% of its longevity for repeated charge/discharge cycles.

I'd suspect that your batteries may no longer be "undamaged with 100% capacity"...

Yes, thank you for that.

If I have to replace it I will. But, first I want to understand why this has occurred.
Since I just purchased the RV, I'm still piecing things together.
Did this happen due to someone rewiring things they shouldn't have?
Did I run the battery down unknowingly?
If I ran it down, why is the battery that is starting the generator the one with the issue?
When at the dealership, they had it plugged in which I assume was charging both circuits. They removed shore power and the generator fired right up.

This battery may be pretty shot, but I'd like to figure out why and learn from it or fix what is wrong before I spend $200 on a new battery.

[JRTJH]

I understand your concern and can't suggest "how to fix it" because there are several different wiring configurations, all intended to meet a specific set of circumstances, and not all "compatible" with each other.

There's one configuration where all the batteries run both the house circuits and the generator starting circuit. Run them down, and you're "dead". Most of those have an "automatic start system" on the generator to recharge automatically.

Another configuration has a separate battery for the generator, so you can always start the generator, even if the house batteries are dead. The problem is that most generators do not have a "start battery charge system" so the generator battery must be "manually charged" to keep it ready to use. Some systems "wire the generator battery to the house converter/charger" to solve that problem, other wiring configurations avoid that, mostly because of the automatic transfer switch wiring.

Another configuration is similar to the second, but has a built in (separate) charger for the generator battery.

What's on your trailer ???? Who knows, that's part of why making a recommendation is difficult. It not only depends on how it's currently wired, it also depends on what other equipment is wired into the system and finally, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish...

So... without much more information about what you want as a "final outcome" and what equipment is to be included in "your system" about all you can get is "this is the way mine works" which may (or may not) be the same as yours, both is what's in the system, how it works and why it's wired that way.....

I'd suggest finding a "competent" RV service technician, have him look at it, discuss with him what your "final goals are" and get his opinions on how best to accomplish them given what's in your trailer, how it's wired and what you'll need to do to rewire it to meet your goals.

[Brentw]

I do not know about the majority of connections, but I believe that most units came with 1 or 2 batteries wired together, and the generator was connected as just another load. As fishsizzle said, if you are going to continue to operate as you are. I would split your batteries to a house bank ( 2 6v or 2 12v, your call) and a separate starting battery for gennie on a isolation so it can be charged from coach system.

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by Brentw

I do not know about the majority of connections, but I believe that most units came with 1 or 2 batteries wired together, and the generator was connected as just another load. As fishsizzle said, if you are going to continue to operate as you are. I would split your batteries to a house bank ( 2 6v or 2 12v, your call) and a separate starting battery for gennie on a isolation so it can be charged from coach system.

This is what I suspect it left the factory wired as.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole system and see why it has discharged to the point it has.
If this was the coach battery, I could see the battery falling below where it has but if this is an isolated battery tied only to starting the generator I don't see how/ why it has fallen to the point it has. I may have to replace the battery, but I'm also thinking I'll add another battery isolated as you guys have suggested.

[chuckster57]

Units can also be ordered with “gen prep” that includes the remote panel, remote start wiring and a transfer switch. As for the EMS, I believe it get installed AFTER the transfer switch, BEFORE the main breaker.

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Units can also be ordered with “gen prep” that includes the remote panel, remote start wiring and a transfer switch. As for the EMS, I believe it get installed AFTER the transfer switch, BEFORE the main breaker.

OK.
Yeah, that's consistent with what I've read.

[rs1718]

I have a 2012 raptor 300mp. The generator has a separate battery

[LewisB]

We have a 2018 Raptor 353TS. I think most batteries are supplied and wired by the dealer. In ours, the 2 batteries are paralleled and connected to the coach (load), the generator, the solar system, and the inverter system. The parallelling cables should be adequately sized to insure that all loads and sources see uniform resistance to both batteries. This insures that both batteries are fully utilized and fully charged.

If your batteries get to the point they won't start the generator, hook up your TV and let it run for a few minutes. Every unit I have owned would start the generator from the TV, even when the coach batteries were nearly dead.

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by rs1718

I have a 2012 raptor 300mp. The generator has a separate battery

Ok, so your’s is wired like I mentioned mine is?

[LewisB]

Originally Posted by michaelrc51

Ok, so your’s is wired like I mentioned mine is?

I would recommend you stop thinking in terms of "how your generator is wired"; you really need to think in terms of your entire electrical system. You likely have:

• multiple loads (main coach, inverter?, auxiliary jacks/stabilizers, etc.)
• a factory "disconnect" switch that doesn't really disconnect everything and will drive you nuts if you forget and leave it off during trouble-shooting
• multiple sources (shore power, generator, tow vehicle, solar system?)
• load switching (your toy hauler probably has auto-load switching between shore power and generator sources)
• load monitoring (does your generator system include an auto-start capability based on battery voltage?)
• multiple batteries with a very large variety in how those loads and sources can be connect to both of those batteries.

In a lot of cases, a dealer (or prior owner) may just indiscriminately hook things up to one of the batteries with no specific plan. Then by using undersized paralleling cables they may place unbalanced loads on one or both of the batteries. If the paralleling cables are missing, then only half of your system may be utilized on some loads, and only half of you system is likely being "charged" when one of the sources is utilized. It all depends on what loads and what sources are connected to what battery. If you truly have your generator connected to only one battery, then the generator can only charge that one battery unless there are other electrical components for charging the remaining battery. So you really need to consider your electrical components from a systemic approach.

For best all around use, it is my opinion that you should probably;

• Run multiple 12V batteries in parallel.
• Make sure to use heavy paralleling cables between each battery (ideally, you want each source and/or load to "see" identical resistance to each/every battery in the bank)
• Actively monitor your battery bank when you are not connected to shore power or using your generator.

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by LewisB

I would recommend you stop thinking in terms of "how your generator is wired"; you really need to think in terms of your entire electrical system. You likely have:

• multiple loads (main coach, inverter?, auxiliary jacks/stabilizers, etc.)
• a factory "disconnect" switch that doesn't really disconnect everything and will drive you nuts if you forget and leave it off during trouble-shooting
• multiple sources (shore power, generator, tow vehicle, solar system?)
• load switching (your toy hauler probably has auto-load switching between shore power and generator sources)
• load monitoring (does your generator system include an auto-start capability based on battery voltage?)
• multiple batteries with a very large variety in how those loads and sources can be connect to both of those batteries.

In a lot of cases, a dealer (or prior owner) may just indiscriminately hook things up to one of the batteries with no specific plan. Then by using undersized paralleling cables they may place unbalanced loads on one or both of the batteries. If the paralleling cables are missing, then only half of your system may be utilized on some loads, and only half of you system is likely being "charged" when one of the sources is utilized. It all depends on what loads and what sources are connected to what battery. If you truly have your generator connected to only one battery, then the generator can only charge that one battery unless there are other electrical components for charging the remaining battery. So you really need to consider your electrical components from a systemic approach.

For best all around use, it is my opinion that you should probably;

• Run multiple 12V batteries in parallel.
• Make sure to use heavy paralleling cables between each battery (ideally, you want each source and/or load to "see" identical resistance to each/every battery in the bank)
• Actively monitor your battery bank when you are not connected to shore power or using your generator.

Thanks you.

Yes, my current plans are to investigate and get a sense of everything in the whole system and how it is currently setup.

I was asking because I'd like to know if my system was possibly changed. I'm pretty sure mine has been modified. I will find out for sure when I start digging into things but some confirmation of how they were when they left the factory would be nice, and I understand not every unit leaves with the same configuration.

[michaelrc51]

First, thanks for all the input!

I finally have dug through everything and confirmed a few things which I had initially thought.

So, here's the low down of the wiring.

Shore Power is a 6/3
Generator is a 12/4 with the neutrals and positives doubled up on the load 1 and neutral terminals, so running 120v. I'm thinking this wiring could be upgraded, the generator is rated at 46amps of continuous 120v.
Both going to their respective terminals on the WFCO T-57 transfer switch

Load side of the transfer switch is a 6/3 going to the WFCO WF-8930/50 load center

A WFCO WF-68100A Power converter/charger is coming off of the power center

There is an Interstate SRM-27 for the house battery and another SRM-27 which is solely wired to start the generator.

So, this explains why the generator battery is toast. There is nothing recharging the battery, well except for the generator is that is happening.....I need to look into that. Generator is a Cummins Onan 5.5HGJAB-6755K.

For now, I ordered a VMAX MR-127 AGM deep cycle 100ah 12v battery and a Xantrex auxiliary battery charger. I'm going to move the Interstate SRM-27 that was for house power over to start the generator and put the VMAX battery to run house power. I will add in the Xantrex auxiliary battery charger to keep the generator battery charged.

I'll also be adding the Progressive Industries HW50C EMS/Surge Protector.

I think my future plans will probably be a complete overhaul and installation of a battery bank and full Xantrex setup including:
1. Freedom SW 3000w inverter/charger
2. SCP (programmer/controller)
3. AGS (Automatic Generator Start)

And a bank of 4 -6v batteries for off the grid camping. I'll probably put these off for a while, where we travel to there are generally 50amp shore power circuits available. I'm thinking this first round of upgrades should help keep everything working well for the foreseeable future.

How does everyone like the Xantrex brand products?

I've been watching a whole bunch of videos and trying to educate myself on the equipment and brands available and I like their products.

[LewisB]

We had a similar system in our last Raptor - Xantrex Freedom 2000W with remote monitor and 4 6v golf cart batteries. We didn't have the generator auto start. If you can spend the money for this equipment, I think you will really like it. It will serve you well for off grid camping. One thing I have learned with our new Raptor is that I really like the small (200W) solar system. When I park the trailer back at the house between trips, I don't have to plug it in - the solar system is adequate for "storage". It also helps on the road during the day, as well.

Best of luck with your setup!

[michaelrc51]

Originally Posted by LewisB

We had a similar system in our last Raptor - Xantrex Freedom 2000W with remote monitor and 4 6v golf cart batteries. We didn't have the generator auto start. If you can spend the money for this equipment, I think you will really like it. It will serve you well for off grid camping. One thing I have learned with our new Raptor is that I really like the small (200W) solar system. When I park the trailer back at the house between trips, I don't have to plug it in - the solar system is adequate for "storage". It also helps on the road during the day, as well.

Best of luck with your setup!

This is another reason I was thinking of this Xantrex setup. I could just add on a complete solar system without a ton of new wiring. Just add panels and controller and wire into battery bank and that's it.

When going solar with these units, how are people getting the cabling from the roof down to the battery bank/ basement? I haven't confirmed it but it would appear you could penetrate just before the nose cone on the roof and come down behind the nose cone?

Some of the videos I've watched there were tons of wiring and extra switches for everything. The Xantrex setup seems to minimize the amount of equipment and extra wiring.