Batteries Die in a Few Hours! HELP!

[nickofosho]

We have a 2019 Keystone Passport 240BH. The latest in the long list of issues we've had with our trailer is that both batteries, after being fully charged, will die in about 3 - 4 hours with nothing on in the trailer. I've tested both batteries (Interstate Deep cycle RV) and they seem to be fine. A year ago when we first got the trailer, with normal, conservative use, they would last about 36 - 48 hours. Now, if we full charge them and go to bed with only the propane fridge running, they are dead in about 3-4 hours. It seems that something is sucking them dry. The only odd electrical issues we've had is an exterior light by the jack seems to have died, even though the bulb is still fine. Any suggestions?

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum!

I take it your not plugged into shore power? Have you load tested the batteries and exactly how are the batteries hooked up to the trailer?

I assume the positives are hooked together and the negatives also. Are the trailer leads hooked to one battery or to one lead to each battery?

[Roscommon48]

get your batteries tested... there is no way for your batteries to go dead with only a propane refrig.....
get a load test and make sure batteries are wired correctly.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...77538285942069

[flybouy]

Describe how you ascertained that "the batteries seem to be fine". A load test (any parts auto store will check for free), or better yet checking each cell with a hydrometer is the only way to tell.

With lead acid batteries letting them go "completely dead" will ruin them. A bad cell can result in the battery only taking a "top charge" which will only last a short time. Also, if one battery is bad then replace both batteries. A new battery will only charge to the capacity of the old battery that's connected to it.

[Steveo57]

When you say they are fully charged how do you know that and how are you charging them?

Check that your emergency break away switch is not pulled.

[GHen]

For best results you need to unhook them and take them to be tested, even an auto parts store might have a load tester.

To get an indication of a bad cell, you need to unhook, let them rest without being on a generator, shore power or charger for about 30 minutes and then measure them separately with a volt meter. You should be better than 12.4 volts. If one is 12.4 and the other is 11.75 or so then the low one has a bad cell and will drag the good down with it. You can then hook just the good one back up to give you some power and then get a replacement for the bad one.

[Logan X]

It sounds like your batteries have been damaged from letting them discharge too deeply. Flooded lead acid batteries shouldn’t be discharged more than 50% state of charge.

If you don’t already have one, you may want to invest in a good battery monitor that uses a shunt. This will accurately tell you, in % state of charge, where your batteries charge level is. It is very useful to avoid over discharging the batteries.

Here is what I use and I’m happy with it.

Victron BMV 700

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ.../dp/B01BVQR0V8

[nickofosho]

Thanks for all the input!

The batteries are wired in parallel. The issue only occurs when not connected to shore power or to a generator. They have both been load tested and work fine. I have tried fully charging each battery independently (with the trailer's converter and confirming with the trailer battery monitor and a volt meter) and only connecting one at a time to the trailer and always get the same result. A dead battery in a few hours.

I've monitored them with a volt meter many times and as soon as they are hooked up to the trailer, they begin loosing voltage, about 1/10 volt in 5-10 minutes. When they are disconnected, the voltage remains stable/consistent.

They have never gone completely dead or anything below 10.5v. The trailer is always stored plugged into shore power and is rarely in storage for more than a month.

The emergency break away cable is intact and functional.

Is it possible that some short in the wiring could be causing a extreme parasitic draw?

Thanks again everyone!

[flybouy]

A grounding or "short" that severe would cause heat and should cause a fuse to burnout, or a 12 v dc auto resetting fuse to open up. Think about the load required to draw down two 12 v batteries of say 105 amps each. That 210 amps of capacity. If they go dead in 4 hours then 210/4 = 52 Amp load, 6 hrs would be a 26 Amp load. If you have that kind of load then you should be able to follow the heat, or smoke to find the problem, or for under $20 you can buy a DC ammeter (like the old style you mount under the dashboard), temporarily install it and note the reading. Then pull one fuse at a time to see what circuit the high amperage draw is on.

If you have a "factory installed battery disconnect" they do not fully disconnect the battery and the batteries will go dead.

"never gone below 10.5 volts" 12.06 volts is 50% charge, 11.3 v is 10% and 10.5 is 0. Anything below a 50% charge is damaging to the battery.

"it doesn't happen on shore power or generator" is because the converter/battery charger is compensating. I still haven't seen how you've tested, or have had the battery tested. Several suggestions have been given by several people on this. A bad battery can read OK immediately after charging. As others have stated charge the batteries, disconnect, wait at least 30 min or better 1 hour and then read the voltage.

A simple hydrometer that costs less than $20 will tell you the "true" state of your batteries. If you don't have a large inverter with an ac load running or some other high current DC device like a searchlight running then you either have a grounding situation, bad connections (corrosion causes high resistance which = higher amperage) or the batteries are defective.

This going to take some detective work on your part or necessitate hiring someone to do it as we aren't there to perform these tests. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

[Snoking]

Has the trailer remained in the same location? Your emergency brake pin has not been pulled has it? <<< Bingo maybe!

That lead to the jack light should be check out carefully.

Power to both of these should be able to be isolated near the batteries or on one of the battery connections.

Disconnect one of the converter leads and see if they still discharge at that rate.

I have used a number 97 bulb between the battery post and lead to look for phantom loads. Remove all the 12V fuses, disconnect one of the converter leads and insert the bulb into the battery circuit. If it lights brightly you have a short/load between the batteries and panel. If not start replacing fuses one at a time. Leave the frig and water heater to the last, as they have small loads when off. Stereo if 12V will also have a small load.

You are probably getting a pretty good spark when connecting the batteries, unless the master battery switch is off. So be careful to not blow up a battery that is gassing.

Regarding the master battery switch and using the 97 light bulb. That would be a good first test. Switch off - bulb in circuit, it should not light!

Yeti package with tank heaters?

Chris

[GHen]

Try hooking up just one battery and see how fast it discharges and then hook up just the second battery . That may eliminate a battery issue.
One bad battery with a dead cell even in a group of 4 will pull all of them down to dead in just a couple of hours. My daughter had that issue with her brand new trailer. Dealer couldn’t figure it out, probably didn’t have their electrical guy check it. Once the bad battery was unhooked, everything was fine. Dealer replaced it and no problems since then.

[foldbak]

Originally Posted by nickofosho

We have a 2019 Keystone Passport 240BH. The latest in the long list of issues we've had with our trailer is that both batteries, after being fully charged, will die in about 3 - 4 hours with nothing on in the trailer. I've tested both batteries (Interstate Deep cycle RV) and they seem to be fine. A year ago when we first got the trailer, with normal, conservative use, they would last about 36 - 48 hours. Now, if we full charge them and go to bed with only the propane fridge running, they are dead in about 3-4 hours. It seems that something is sucking them dry. The only odd electrical issues we've had is an exterior light by the jack seems to have died, even though the bulb is still fine. Any suggestions?

When you say load tested. How, by whom and with what? A fully charged battery can pass a short load test but still have a bad cell. I've seen this in the past. Battery is at 12 volts and passes a load test but fails during operation.



With a multi meter test each cell by removing the caps and inserting the probe into cells 1 and 2. Voltage should be 2 volts. Test the next cell, probe in cells 2 and 3. Repeat.



Once you confirm battery condition is good put a amp probe on the the positive cable and shut off everything. See if you have a current draw. If you do then you'll have to start searching. Current sucking gremlins can be a B to find. Good luck!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by flybouy

If you have that kind of load then you should be able to follow the heat, or smoke to find the problem, or for under $20 you can buy a DC ammeter (like the old style you mount under the dashboard), temporarily install it and note the reading. Then pull one fuse at a time to see what circuit the high amperage draw is on.

Even more handy is a $15 clamp-on ammeter from HF. You don't have to wire it in, and you can use it for lots of other stuff.

Aaaargh, correction: looks like the clamp-ons under $30 measure AC current only. Here's the least expensive DC current clampon I came across.

[flybouy]

The second link to a meter is ac amperage only. A clamp meter that works for ac & DC amps is about $100 and that's a cheaply built one.

[chuckster57]

I paid about that for my south wire AC/DC meter with amp draw.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by flybouy

The second link to a meter is ac amperage only.

Not according to the top image and textual description on the webpage:

"BM89 is a kind of portable clamp meter, it can be used to measure DC voltage and current, AC voltage and current, TRUE RMS..."

Since the instructions are in Chinglish, I assume the meter is way on the cheap end, but suitable according to my criteria for tools I would use only rarely.

I must say, I've never bought one. When I need a clamp meter, I'm still cranking my dad's 1950's phenolic analog Amprobe, from back when they built stuff to run forever.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Not according to the top image and textual description on the webpage:

"BM89 is a kind of portable clamp meter, it can be used to measure DC voltage and current, AC voltage and current, TRUE RMS..."

Since the instructions are in Chinglish, I assume the meter is way on the cheap end, but suitable according to my criteria for tools I would use only rarely.

I must say, I've never bought one. When I need a clamp meter, I'm still cranking my dad's 1950's phenolic analog Amprobe, from back when they built stuff to run forever.

From the webpage...
Features:

1.The meter is based on CMOS large scale IC and can automatically changed measuring range for measurement of AC/DC voltage, AC current, resistance, frequency and capacity, which makes the meter easy to be used.
2.Display mode: Display by LCD.
3.Maximum display: 3999 or 9999(when measuring capacitance and frequency)
4.Maximum span of jaw: 32mm.
5.Data Hold:Short time pressing"DH" key can maintain the current readings, release the button to cancel data hold function. In AC voltage and current measurement function,press the key for more than 2 seconds ,the INR measurement of inrush voltage and current will be displayed.
6.Auto negative polarity indication: Displaying “-”.
7. Lack of battery power: Displaying “ ”.
8 .Auto power OFF
After turning on the instrument and without operating the function switch or pressing any button, the instrument will automatically enter into sleep mode after 10 minutes,to save battery power.when it is in the sleep mode you can press the SELECT key to wake up the instrument. If you don't need the automatic sleep mode, you should hold down the DH key to turn on the instrument, and then the symbol" " will not be display on the LCD.

Notice:
1.Please allow 1-2cm error due to manual measurement.Please make sure you do not mind before you bid.
2.The colors may have different as the difference display,please understand.
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[flybouy]

Harbor Freight.....
AMES
CM610A 600A T-RMS AC/DC Clamp Meter
(51)
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The Ames 600A T-RMS AC/DC Clamp Meter measures inrush and has a built-in work-light

$89.99
Compare to Amprobe AMP-220 at $143.91. Save $53.92

[LHaven]

Like I say, the descriptions are in Chinglish. You can interpret that paragraph as saying that those are the functions for which the range will change automatically, and for other enumerated functions, it will not change automatically.

As I mentioned before, in at least two places in the page it says straight out this meter measures DC current. Now, if your claim is that they're lying, I have no way to know.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Like I say, the descriptions are in Chinglish. You can interpret that paragraph as saying that those are the functions for which the range will change automatically, and for other enumerated functions, it will not change automatically.

As I mentioned before, in at least two places in the page it says straight out this meter measures DC current. Now, if your claim is that they're lying, I have no way to know.

I'm not "claiming" anything my friend, only pointing out the discrepancies in the ad. Which was lost in translation the part that claims it measures both AC & DC current or the part that says it only reads DC?

I would be very sceptical of a web based company selling a product for 1/3 the cost of Harbor Freight. I'm not promoting HF but using them as a reference as they are generally known for selling "off brand" tools at a price point few companies can compete with.


I know someone that bought a similarly priced meter with similar claims. He waited 4 weeks for it to arrive from China. After getting it the manual was in Chinese only (I assume it was Chinese as I can't read Chinese). He used the meter once and it never worked again. And after getting a bum meter the seller never answered any emails so he lost his money and time.

So given these facts I would never recommend a product like that to anyone, much less anyone with a limited knowledge of electrical testing methodologies.

JMHO