Payload and axle ratings

[mtofell]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

It may see that going from 9,999# to 10,001# would be easy and have no significant consequence but what would a TPMS and tires and wheels cost? There are other items too but these would be easy to understand.

Tires and wheels must comply to axle ratings. This is kind of the crux of the GVWR vs. axle rating debate.

[Todd727]

Originally Posted by KSH

I did a bit more research, looks like all trucks in this class max out at 10,000 lbs to stay in their class ratings.

Not exactly. The 250/2500 and 350/3500 are the same "class." The 10,000 lb limit is related to registration fees in some states that are based on the GVWR. In fact you will see that you can order a Ford F350 with a 10,000 lb. option. The truck is no different, but the option limits the registered GVWR for those states that pay attention. Some insurance companies may also pay attention and adjust rates. Remember the VIN has all of that information, so no one looks at the sticker, but they know, if they look closely.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Todd727

Not exactly. The 250/2500 and 350/3500 are the same "class." The 10,000 lb limit is related to registration fees in some states that are based on the GVWR. In fact you will see that you can order a Ford F350 with a 10,000 lb. option. The truck is no different, but the option limits the registered GVWR for those states that pay attention. Some insurance companies may also pay attention and adjust rates. Remember the VIN has all of that information, so no one looks at the sticker, but they know, if they look closely.

This is not so.
Class 2b goes from 8,501# to 10,000#
Class 3 goes from 10,001# to 14,000#

Now for several years Ford offered a F350 SRW with a GVWR of 10,000# to skirt outdated registration rules and insurance cost. Otherwise the 2500/250 and 3500/350 are different classes.
Then comes along the 2020 GM 2500 with a GVWR of 11,350# this will make it a class 3 truck, it will be interesting to see how this affects registration and insurance in some of these states that consider over 10,000# GVWR commercial.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

This is not so.
Class 2b goes from 8,501# to 10,000#
Class 3 goes from 10,001# to 14,000#

Now for several years Ford offered a F350 SRW with a GVWR of 10,000# to skirt outdated registration rules and insurance cost. Otherwise the 2500/250 and 3500/350 are different classes.
Then comes along the 2020 GM 2500 with a GVWR of 11,350# this will make it a class 3 truck, it will be interesting to see how this affects registration and insurance in some of these states that consider over 10,000# GVWR commercial.

One could more or less understand what Ford was doing with the 10K F350, however understanding what GM is doing with 11,300 2500 alludes me and most likely many others. Chris

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Snoking

One could more or less understand what Ford was doing with the 10K F350, however understanding what GM is doing with 11,300 2500 alludes me and most likely many others. Chris

One word comes to mind.

Marketing

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by flybouy

One word comes to mind.

Marketing

Marketing and (IMHO) more important: Deception (or avoiding) the registration limits. Sort of like Keystone's (half ton series) ignores that most half ton trucks CAN'T.... Now GM is building trucks "to out-perform" Ford and RAM, and leaving it to the "star struck buyer" to deal with the folks at the state registration and insurance offices just like Keystone leaves the "star struck buyer" to deal with the "too little truck, too late" issue while they "rack up sales and more importantly, profits".....

I'm not suggesting that GM is doing something "deceptive" but rather, I'm suggesting that they aren't putting all the information on how this "might" affect a buyer in some locations (states) with different realities when the buyer pulls out his checkbook to start insuring and registering his new truck.....

[travelin texans]

Just like the other brands claim to "tow a million pound box car" or "tow the space shuttle".... Talk about star struck when they realize they can't tow, can but extremely overloaded, their "1/2 ton towable RV!!!

[mtofell]

There's a funny place the 10,000# GVWR comes up in my state or Oregon. Tire chains are often required in mountain passes for vehicles over 10K. So, that means my 2500 can get by with snow tires (snowflake rating, etc.) whereas virtually the same truck in a 3500 would be required to chain up. I realize they need to draw the line somewhere but it's ironic that two identical pieces of equipment (other than rear suspension, badges and numbers on a door sticker) fall under different rules.

[Laredo Tugger]

Originally Posted by mtofell

There's a funny place the 10,000# GVWR comes up in my state or Oregon. Tire chains are often required in mountain passes for vehicles over 10K. So, that means my 2500 can get by with snow tires (snowflake rating, etc.) whereas virtually the same truck in a 3500 would be required to chain up. I realize they need to draw the line somewhere but it's ironic that two identical pieces of equipment (other than rear suspension, badges and numbers on a door sticker) fall under different rules.

The "rear suspension" difference is the leafs on the 3500 have higher weight rating in case you are planning on pulling a gooseneck/5th wheel.
The Axle tubes are bigger on the 3500 and the Frame on the 3500 is considerably stronger. The Aisin is available in the 3500, and the programing for the 3500 is spec to the GVW
Obviously not "two identical pieces of equipment".
RMc

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by mtofell

There's a funny place the 10,000# GVWR comes up in my state or Oregon. Tire chains are often required in mountain passes for vehicles over 10K. So, that means my 2500 can get by with snow tires (snowflake rating, etc.) whereas virtually the same truck in a 3500 would be required to chain up. I realize they need to draw the line somewhere but it's ironic that two identical pieces of equipment (other than rear suspension, badges and numbers on a door sticker) fall under different rules.

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

The "rear suspension" difference is the leafs on the 3500 have higher weight rating in case you are planning on pulling a gooseneck/5th wheel.
The Axle tubes are bigger on the 3500 and the Frame on the 3500 is considerably stronger. The Aisin is available in the 3500, and the programing for the 3500 is spec to the GVW
Obviously not "two identical pieces of equipment".
RMc
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 SRW Aisin Trans. HO CTD
Air Lift Bags -Curt 16K Slider Hitch
2017 Laredo 350 FB

Tugger, I find it interesting that you state a 3500 SRW has stronger springs than a 2500, then post in your signature you run Air Bags with a 13,000# 5er!
I carried a 12,500# scaled 5er with a 2001 Ram 2500, with a 2,700# pin and never needed Bags.
I have a friend that has a 2016 Ram 2500, carrying a 40' Big Horn, and towed level without bags, was going on a long trip and added them. In the end he felt the bags were a waste of money.

[mtofell]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

The "rear suspension" difference is the leafs on the 3500 have higher weight rating in case you are planning on pulling a gooseneck/5th wheel.
The Axle tubes are bigger on the 3500 and the Frame on the 3500 is considerably stronger. The Aisin is available in the 3500, and the programing for the 3500 is spec to the GVW
Obviously not "two identical pieces of equipment".
RMc

Axle on a 2500 and 3500 (SRW) is the same - at least for my 2014 it is.

"Frame on the 3500 is considerably stronger" - stronger steel? Nope - Bigger? Nope.

Aisin tranny adds pulling power but really has nothing to do with payload which is what we are talking about. Ironically, the Aisin actually reduces payload as it's about 100#heavier than the 68rfe.

The 2500/3500 debate has been absolutely beat to death on Ram forums (and here) and the only differences are rear leafs versus coils (and some attachments points) and the badges - again, this is my year of 2014. I've heard there are/were some changes that I may be unaware of on newer models.

[Laredo Tugger]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Tugger, I find it interesting that you state a 3500 SRW has stronger springs than a 2500, then post in your signature you run Air Bags with a 13,000# 5er!
I carried a 12,500# scaled 5er with a 2001 Ram 2500, with a 2,700# pin and never needed Bags.
I have a friend that has a 2016 Ram 2500, carrying a 40' Big Horn, and towed level without bags, was going on a long trip and added them. In the end he felt the bags were a waste of money.

This from someone who admits to towing overweight? Hmmm...Oh wait you had the correct tires for that set up. OK, got it. I guess your friend went to the same school as you.
The bags help with the ride, worth the money to me.
RMc

[goducks]

Whats interesting is Ram dropped the RAWR from 6500 to 6000 on the 2019.
Why?

[Northofu1]

It's going to be a long winter.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

It's going to be a long winter.

Judging from the way the weather has been acting the last couple of weeks I'd say you're on to something! Course, since this thread is about payload and axle ratings it reminds me of the Long, Long, Trailer movie.....it looks to sort of be about that subject......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qbm-T_OSa4

[Laredo Tugger]

Below are part numbers for the Ram 3500 and 2500 trucks .The frames and rear axles are different. The only "identical" components appear to be the front axles. The DRW shows a different frame but the same front and rear axle as SRW? I expected the rear to be different. A different rear axle on the 2500 would make sense because of the coil suspension.
Are these 3500 parts "considerably stronger"? I do not know.
RMc

RAM 3500

Front Axle : Part Number: 05146598AN
Supersession(s): 05146598AG; 05146598AI; 05146598AJ; 05146598AL; 05146598AM; 5146598AN
[6,000# Front Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle].
Fits 3500 (2015 - 2018)

Rear Axle SRW-DRW: Part Number: 68282878AD
Supersession(s): 68226796AB; 68282878AB; 68226796AA; 68226796AC; 68282878AA; 68282878AC; 68235438AA
[3.73 Rear Axle Ratio], [Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle], [11.50, Dual Wheels Rear Axle], [3.73 Rear Axle Ratio], [Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle].
Fits 3500 (2016 - 2018)

Frame: SRW Part Number: 68371537AA
Supersession(s): 68273951AA; 68319456AA; 68319456AB; 68319456AC
[6.4L Heavy Duty V8 HEMI with MDS] Or [6.7L I6 Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine] Or [5.7L V8 HEMI VVT Engine].
Fits 3500 (2016 – 2018)

DRW Part Number: 68371565AA
Supersession(s): 68319982AD; 68319982AB; 68319982AA; 68274316AA; 68319982AC
[Auto Level Rear Air Suspension].
Fits 3500 (2016 - 2018)

RAM 2500

Front Axle: Part Number: 05146598AN
Supersession(s): 05146598AG; 05146598AI; 05146598AJ; 05146598AL; 05146598AM; 5146598AN
[6,000# Front Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle]. Fits 2500 (2014 - 2018)

Rear Axle: Part Number: 05146386AL
Supersession(s): 05146386AE; 05146386AF; 05146386AG; 05146386AH; 05146386AI; 05146386AK; 68237857AA; 5146386AL[3.73 Rear Axle Ratio], [Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle].
Fits 2500 (2014 - 2018)

Frame: Part Number: 68371541AA
Supersession(s): 68273956AB; 68319460AA; 68319460AB
[6.7L I6 Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine].
Fits 2500 (2016 - 2018)

[mtofell]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

Below are part numbers for the Ram 3500 and 2500 trucks .The frames and rear axles are different. The only "identical" components appear to be the front axles. The DRW shows a different frame but the same front and rear axle as SRW? I expected the rear to be different. A different rear axle on the 2500 would make sense because of the coil suspension.
Are these 3500 parts "considerably stronger"? I do not know.
RMc

RAM 3500

Front Axle : Part Number: 05146598AN
Supersession(s): 05146598AG; 05146598AI; 05146598AJ; 05146598AL; 05146598AM; 5146598AN
[6,000# Front Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle].
Fits 3500 (2015 - 2018)

Rear Axle SRW-DRW: Part Number: 68282878AD
Supersession(s): 68226796AB; 68282878AB; 68226796AA; 68226796AC; 68282878AA; 68282878AC; 68235438AA
[3.73 Rear Axle Ratio], [Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle], [11.50, Dual Wheels Rear Axle], [3.73 Rear Axle Ratio], [Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle].
Fits 3500 (2016 - 2018)

Frame: SRW Part Number: 68371537AA
Supersession(s): 68273951AA; 68319456AA; 68319456AB; 68319456AC
[6.4L Heavy Duty V8 HEMI with MDS] Or [6.7L I6 Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine] Or [5.7L V8 HEMI VVT Engine].
Fits 3500 (2016 – 2018)

DRW Part Number: 68371565AA
Supersession(s): 68319982AD; 68319982AB; 68319982AA; 68274316AA; 68319982AC
[Auto Level Rear Air Suspension].
Fits 3500 (2016 - 2018)

RAM 2500

Front Axle: Part Number: 05146598AN
Supersession(s): 05146598AG; 05146598AI; 05146598AJ; 05146598AL; 05146598AM; 5146598AN
[6,000# Front Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [3.42 Axle Ratio], [Conventional Differential Frt Axle]. Fits 2500 (2014 - 2018)

Rear Axle: Part Number: 05146386AL
Supersession(s): 05146386AE; 05146386AF; 05146386AG; 05146386AH; 05146386AI; 05146386AK; 68237857AA; 5146386AL[3.73 Rear Axle Ratio], [Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle].
Fits 2500 (2014 - 2018)

Frame: Part Number: 68371541AA
Supersession(s): 68273956AB; 68319460AA; 68319460AB
[6.7L I6 Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine].
Fits 2500 (2016 - 2018)

Only one part # on the list refers to 2014 model year that I was talking about. Most are 2016-2018. I believe some parts have been changed in more recent years to differentiate more between the 2500/3500 but for a period (specifically 2014, the year of my truck) I believe they were the same parts.

This exact argument went on for pages on a Ram forum back in 2014 and the conclusion was the trucks (again, in 2014) were identical other than badges and rear suspension.

A super knowledgeable poster named "ib516" has been on several message boards and done extensive research and testing loads between the 2500 w/coils and SRW 3500 w/leafs. It's pretty interesting stuff if you have some time to kill.

I'm not above admitting I'm wrong and am honestly just regurgitating information I learned on message boards from guys that seem to know.

I've specifically inquired about the rear axle on my 2500 and have been told several times it's identical to the one on the SRW 3500 that's rated at 7000#. If that's the case, my 7280# tires (3640#/side) give me even more breathing room than I thought I had.

My current 5th wheel puts me right at my 10,000# GVWR with about 5500# on the rear axle. I generally don't like using anything at its max and my stance on this whole GVWR vs. Axle weight is that I have no problem towing right at my max GVWR since I still have so much breathing room to the RAWR.

The whether or not you could get in legal trouble for towing over GVWR will go on until the end of time and most of us are pretty well stuck to our opinions.

Always a lively discussion for sure.

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Judging from the way the weather has been acting the last couple of weeks I'd say you're on to something! Course, since this thread is about payload and axle ratings it reminds me of the Long, Long, Trailer movie.....it looks to sort of be about that subject......

Lol. Touche!

[Laredo Tugger]

Originally Posted by mtofell

Only one part # on the list refers to 2014 model year that I was talking about. Most are 2016-2018. I believe some parts have been changed in more recent years to differentiate more between the 2500/3500 but for a period (specifically 2014, the year of my truck) I believe they were the same parts.

This exact argument went on for pages on a Ram forum back in 2014 and the conclusion was the trucks (again, in 2014) were identical other than badges and rear suspension.

A super knowledgeable poster named "ib516" has been on several message boards and done extensive research and testing loads between the 2500 w/coils and SRW 3500 w/leafs. It's pretty interesting stuff if you have some time to kill.

I'm not above admitting I'm wrong and am honestly just regurgitating information I learned on message boards from guys that seem to know.

I've specifically inquired about the rear axle on my 2500 and have been told several times it's identical to the one on the SRW 3500 that's rated at 7000#. If that's the case, my 7280# tires (3640#/side) give me even more breathing room than I thought I had.

My current 5th wheel puts me right at my 10,000# GVWR with about 5500# on the rear axle. I generally don't like using anything at its max and my stance on this whole GVWR vs. Axle weight is that I have no problem towing right at my max GVWR since I still have so much breathing room to the RAWR.

The whether or not you could get in legal trouble for towing over GVWR will go on until the end of time and most of us are pretty well stuck to our opinions.

Always a lively discussion for sure.

Wholeheartedly agree with you brother!
On this subject I am not "A super knowledgeable poster", that's why I added "I do not know"about the parts integrity in my last post. I will admit I am not an expert on truck parts and components. I also have "breathing room" towing my 5er and not near max on any weight or axle. I will admit there is great info on here and some knowledgeable posters who are just trying to help folks tow safe.
Safe towing,
RMc

[ctbruce]

Whew! Thank God we settled that...