Not real happy with construction and quality control

wiredgeorge · 02-17-2022, 02:14 PM

NOTE: This post was copied into this thread, it is not the first or original post. The original post, and OP, start at post #2

Just venting? Start a new thread if you would like to ask questions. I think you own a Cougar and I don't think that line was intended for full time living although some do. There are companies that advertise that they can haul campers; you might want to check local listings on Craigslist or call the dealer for a recommendation if you choose to take the camper back to a dealer for the repairs you site. Since you appear to be living in the camper, you may want to start ticking off all the trim and other problems you cite; Keystone has a "do it yourself" program where they ship you the needed parts if you can do these things. It has been posted in another thread recently. Your biggest issue is the bedroom area floor popping and I suspect if you figure out how to remove the bed, it is just a matter of new linoleum. You can go around the cabinets and similar and use 1/4 round to cover the edges.

Edit: The OP posted in a thread over 5 years old then deleted his post. Started a new thread here. I moved the above post to this thread to avoid confusion as much as possible.

Bone ID · 02-17-2022, 02:46 PM

We purchased our 2022 355FBS in New York and had it shipped to a resort in California. We started using the 5th at the end of December 2021. The floor plan is great for us and aesthetically it is very nice. However, the construction, workmanship and quality control is poor. The first day we found the refrigerator and pop-up plug in the kitchen were not working. I got on the phone with Keystone Customer Service to trouble shoot the problem. They recommendation was it could be the fuse or breaker. I check both and they were fine. After no good recommendations from Keystone I decided to do additional research. Long story short, I replaced the GFI plug in the storage area and that fixed the issue. In the first few days we had one of the pop-up electrical outlets in the kitchen break, one of the kitchen cabinets doors was cracked down the middle. There is molding falling off everywhere. Then we noticed the flooring in the bedroom was bubbling up in numerous places, which is not an easy or cheep fix. The drawers in the master bathroom and the bedroom chest do not seat correctly.

Now we have the bedroom slide-out failing. We had a mobile service come out to see what was wrong. They indicated the motor and wire harness needed to be replaced. Mind you, the slide-out has been operated maybe five times in total. As I continue to look around the unit I find screws in sideways, screws falling out because they were not anchored into anything and screws popping up through the flooring. This is all in just two months of use.

We do not have a towing vehicle and the 5th wheel is parked at a resort space. There is not a good way to get it to dealer for repairs so I have to make repairs myself or call a mobile repair service, which is very costly. With more and more people using their RV’s longer term and stationery, Keystone needs to start contracting with mobile repair services.

There needs to be better quality control and inspection during construction. The only reason for the floor in the bedroom to bubble up is lack of adhesive and poor installation.

dutchmensport · 02-17-2022, 03:10 PM

Sorry to hear about your disappointing experience with your new camper. I know this does not give you any comfort, but what you have experienced so far is the same frustrations that many of us have also, already experienced and raised the same question, "Where is the quality control." The answer is: There is none. (so it seems anyway).

Again, too late for you, but because of my own experiences with 4 different Keystone camper brands, I always try to encourage folks who are planning on using their campers full time to hold off a year before selling their stick and brick home, and to use the new camper as much as possible during that first year of ownership. They way, they have a place they can take the camper back to for repairs (at home and the dealership) and still not be "out" of a bed to sleep in every night while the camper is in the shop.

In your case, that's all too late now. About the best you can do is to invest in some basic tools, or buy them as you need them, and start fixing as many things yourself that you can. If it's made of wood or metal, it's fixible. If it's electronic, it may need a service technician. But, if you don't fix it yourself, you'll find yourself in the poor section of the RV park sooner than you may think.

These forums are a good source of help, and YouTube videos cover any subject or topic on you may think of. YouTube is your friend.

You can wrangle with Keystone over issues with your camper, but chances are you'll not get very far, regardless of the issues. And using RV repair shops can result in your camper being at the shop for months until they do anything for you.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is reality. Look at each problem in your camper and one-by-one as they turn up, fix it to the best of your ability. You sound like you are already doing this because you figured it out and replaced the GFI receptacle. Keep up the good work, and I can almost promise you that after 1 year of ownership you'll have all these bugs and deficiencies work out and then you'll have really great camper!

Bone ID · 02-17-2022, 03:45 PM

Yeah, I figured as much. I have gotten pretty good at fixes, but can't do the slide-out. We only plan on being in it about 4 months a year. I am working on the flooring now. I will see how it comes out. I wish they would at least allow the owner to order parts directly. Thanks for the reply.

wiredgeorge · 02-17-2022, 04:36 PM

Does someone recall the recent thread DIY or similar where folks can get the parts from Keystone at no cost to do their own repairs?

jasin1 · 02-17-2022, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Does someone recall the recent thread DIY or similar where folks can get the parts from Keystone at no cost to do their own repairs?

Here it is
https://www.keystonerv.com/diy-program

**JRTJH** · 02-17-2022, 04:41 PM

Yep, the Keystone DIY Program: https://www.keystonerv.com/owners-ho...ro-diy-repairs

wiredgeorge · 02-17-2022, 04:48 PM

BTW: I was not the OP, Bone ID was; thread was moved from his posting it to an ancient thread. Somehow the moving company put me at the top of this; hope he looks at the DIY thread and Keystone blurb. A bit of advice when opening a useful thread is to use a title that is easily searched. Couldn't find it under DIY.

Bone ID · 02-18-2022, 09:34 AM

So, I wake up this morning and turn on fireplace and no hot air. I call Keystone and tell them I want to utilize the DIY program and replace the fireplace. I am told I will need to get a technician out, AT COST TO ME, to diagnose the problem before they will replace.

This is ludicrous, it's a plug in unit that is no longer heating. It does not need a diagnosis.

jasin1 · 02-18-2022, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone ID

So, I wake up this morning and turn on fireplace and no hot air. I call Keystone and tell them I want to utilize the DIY program and replace the fireplace. I am told I will need to get a technician out, AT COST TO ME, to diagnose the problem before they will replace.

This is ludicrous, it's a plug in unit that is no longer heating. It does not need a diagnosis.

Well..yeah…no company is gonna agree to replacing a semi major appliance just because you “said” it doesn’t work…they would go out of buisness replacing things that were perfectly fine that a customer didn’t understand how to use yet.

I’m sure keystone would be happy to have it looked at under warranty if you brought it to a keystone authorized dealer like everyone else has to do..they are not responsible if you had your rv towed someplace permanently or didn’t have a tow vehicle or were 1000 miles from your selling dealer.

A lot of major hvac suppliers make well established and experienced service techs buy the new part and send the old one back to the company to be checked out..if it’s determined it is indeed faulty they then just issue a credit ..if not you are stuck paying for the part.

Would you be willing to pay for the part up front and ship the old one back? …probably not ..but keystone or any company has no idea if they are dealing with a knowledgeable person,someone that just doesn’t understand how to operate something or a dishonest person trying to get something for nothing…you can’t blame them for being skeptical

Have you thoroughly read the instructions? Can you call the company that makes the fireplace ? Maybe as simple as a Fuse link or limit switch

The fireplaces aren’t the best quality ( it’s a rv) but someone may be able to help you…and you can search the forum also

wiredgeorge · 02-18-2022, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone ID

So, I wake up this morning and turn on fireplace and no hot air. I call Keystone and tell them I want to utilize the DIY program and replace the fireplace. I am told I will need to get a technician out, AT COST TO ME, to diagnose the problem before they will replace.

This is ludicrous, it's a plug in unit that is no longer heating. It does not need a diagnosis.

Since it is a plug in fireplace, perhaps TEMPORARILY run an extension cord in from your power pedestal 15A or 20A outlet and see if it works. I think that Keystone may suspect it is not a bad fireplace but perhaps an electrical issue.

jasin1 · 02-18-2022, 10:32 AM

Maybe you could remove the fireplace and drive it to a local keystone dealer? With keystones approval..if George’s idea doesn’t work

Bone ID · 02-18-2022, 10:35 AM

The electricity is working fine. The fireplace lights up just no heat. There are no fuses or circuit resets. It's a sealed unit and specifically states on the back "No serviceable parts inside" which means don't try to fix it. The heating element t's just like a floor heater you buy any any store.

**sourdough** · 02-18-2022, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone ID

So, I wake up this morning and turn on fireplace and no hot air. I call Keystone and tell them I want to utilize the DIY program and replace the fireplace. I am told I will need to get a technician out, AT COST TO ME, to diagnose the problem before they will replace.

This is ludicrous, it's a plug in unit that is no longer heating. It does not need a diagnosis.

It's unfortunate you're having issues with your RV....but most folks do. Buying one and having it "delivered" to a spot with no way to move it is not the optimum situation for owning an RV; they were meant, and assumed, to be mobile. Not being so will put you in a difficult situation for most repairs.

Owning an RV takes a specific, special mindset. It is not a S&B "home" it's an expensive little portable hut to take on vacation every now and again and is built as such. If you don't grow into that mindset and accept it you are going to be a very unhappy owner. Our friend, and neighbor for the winter in this park, bought a new Heartland Big Horn a couple (maybe 3) years back and brought it here to FL for his maiden voyage. Immediately he had problems and tried going through the warranty process with no dealer near, staying in it for the winter and the selling dealer back in MI. When the mobile repair tech showed up and started taking things apart I asked if Heartland approved it. I won't repeat what he said but no, they didn't so he paid for it himself and we discussed RV issues warranty etc. He has paid for every repair since. He understood "the beast", accepted it and has been happy since. As I said, it's a mindset - you won't change the operation of Keystone or Thor.

Another thing I would suggest is learning how things operate; what's expected of an owner, what the manufacturer is thinking (their perspective) and how to work within those confines (the "game"). Approach things from a logical, reasonable position - don't get mad. I think you will be much happier and probably have more success getting things fixed.

Javi · 02-18-2022, 11:02 AM

Talk about being snakebit

Ram Nation · 02-18-2022, 11:30 AM

I don't know what brand your fireplace is but in our Alpine the Furrion fireplace quit working and throwing a overheat code. I reset the breaker a couple times and it started working again. Don't know if it was the proximity sensor or what. Don't know if yours has one but if it does maybe that's the culprit.

Bone ID · 02-18-2022, 12:08 PM

I have the Innoflame RV48. There are no error codes on this model and only a remote with 5 buttons. Resetting the breaker did not help. The manual does not indicate any proximity sensor. There is not much on the internet about this unit.

**JRTJH** · 02-18-2022, 12:15 PM

Did you buy the trailer from a local dealer in that area? Or, did you buy it from a wholesale dealer and have it delivered "cross country" ???

The reason I ask is to determine if you have any "local dealer support" or whether you're "alone in a sea of orphans with no place to call a friendly dealer"...

Bone ID · 02-18-2022, 12:18 PM

We purchased from a dealer in New York and had it shipped to California. There is a Keystone dealer about 25 miles from us. The only other option is a mobile tech. I may just take it out and run it over to the dealer.

**flybouy** · 02-18-2022, 12:38 PM

I think it's unreasonable to expect Keystone to send out a replacement on demand. There are dishonest folks that may do that just to get a "free" one, or they kicked in the front of it and claim its defective. You have to understand your situation. Let's compare some other warranty possabilities.

If you have a new dishwasher in your home that quites working the manufacturer isn't going to ship you a new one, you call a repairman. Typically they will tell you up front that if the issue is not covered under warranty you will be responsible for the charges. You may be required to sign a work authorization stating same.

Let's say your new car has a radio that stopped working. The manufacturer isn't going to send you a new radio. ⁵You call the dealer and take it in for warranty repair. When you sign the papers for them to work on it there will be a disclaimer about non-warranty charges. If they find that your kid shoved pens into the speakers you will have to pay. They have your vehichle and won't release it until you do pay.

Seems reasonable to me that Keystone would require that you pay a tech. The question is, will they reimberse all or part of that techs fee. In my thinking reimbersing for the actual time it would take to giagnose, repair or replace would be gracious as your not being capable of moving the rv is not Keystones responsability.

JMHO

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