Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Welcome to KeystoneForums.com! > New Member Check in!
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-29-2021, 02:53 AM   #21
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Hmmm...well, I'm installing 5000# airbags Friday. The only F350's available in my area are either cab & chassis or $95,000 rigs. The world has a shortage of everything apparently!
I currently have an XLT and if an XLT F350 was available I may consider upgrading the truck but.....
Air bags do not increase towing capacity, they actually reduce it by the weight of the air bags and hardware. I have them on my F250 because of the transition from my driveway to street is a dip and I can bump up the rear end a little so it doesn't drag. They also comein handy while hitching up. If you search the forum you will find many, many posts on this subject, some very informative, some very impassioned. Most folks agree that not only does towing overweight create a saftey issue it also creates a liability issue if you are involved in an accident and God forgive especially it results in a death.

First off I'm no attorney and this is not legal advice, just something to think about. If a seroious accident occures the lawyer (and perhaps the authorities if they want to file criminal negligance charges) will sopeana the contents of the truck's "black box". From that they can ascertain not only speed, braking, etc. but it will reveal the weight of the object being towed and theload it placed upon the truck. Your insurance company may even refuse to cover the damages due to negligace or improper use of the vehichle. Can you imagine if the worst happened and the other side's attorney is telling the jurrors that "this man's wife and baby were taken away because the defendent decided to purchase a cqmper for X amount of money but KNOWINGLY didn't want to spend the money to properly equipe the set up with a proper tow vehichle. I don't think the "I couldn't find a truck, or I had to wait because of X reason" would be an effective defense.

The above are some of the reasons why I will not tow overweight. This is not meant to chastise or disrespect your decision but rather to make anyone reding this aware of what the ramifications could be if things don't go well. Enjoy and travel safe.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 05:14 AM   #22
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Hmmm...well, I'm installing 5000# airbags Friday. The only F350's available in my area are either cab & chassis or $95,000 rigs. The world has a shortage of everything apparently!
I currently have an XLT and if an XLT F350 was available I may consider upgrading the truck but.....
I went the air bag route myself.. ended up trading my truck 3 months later and the bags went with the deal.. lost that money.
Your truck wil probably PULL the trailer just fine on a straight and level road

The problem is it won’t handle or carry the load safely when the road conditions change. If you hit a dip or bridge transition or have to change lanes quickly (god forbid). Get a blowout and forget it
And once you “know” your over weight it’s really hard to think of anything else and relax.
My drives were a mixture of “ see this isn’t so bad”
To a “damn that was scary”
And I was borderline and only 1000 over on my gvwr
I weighed everything I carried like it was going on a Apollo moon mission. Had to leave stuff behind and that wasn’t making my trips less enjoyable

New dually is night and day difference ...a new srw would probably also been a night and day difference.
Now when we travel we talk about the campground ahead, what are plans are, nothing stressful
Gone are the white knuckle quiet rides and stress.

Look back through the towing section of the forum and good luck!
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 06:57 AM   #23
John3Dtraveler
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Texas
Posts: 44
I'm actively looking to purchase an F-350.
Until then, I will just ensure that I do not overload the trailer.
Per the Ford dealer where I bought my truck it is rated to tow a 14800 pound load and I will just ensure that I do not go above that. The tag on the trailer states that it weighs 13000 so I can add no more than 1,800 pounds of cargo
There is a scale close to my home and I will be going there this weekend and get some definitive weights.
I understand and appreciate your concerns. I knew going into this deal that I could not load up the trailer completely.
I do not intend to put my family or yours in danger.
John3Dtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 07:39 AM   #24
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
I'm actively looking to purchase an F-350.
Until then, I will just ensure that I do not overload the trailer.
Per the Ford dealer where I bought my truck it is rated to tow a 14800 pound load and I will just ensure that I do not go above that. The tag on the trailer states that it weighs 13000 so I can add no more than 1,800 pounds of cargo
There is a scale close to my home and I will be going there this weekend and get some definitive weights.
I understand and appreciate your concerns. I knew going into this deal that I could not load up the trailer completely.
I do not intend to put my family or yours in danger.
That "tow rating" number is great advertising for the truck manufacturers, but in the rv world it's a useless number, just as the "dry weight" of any rv. Those 2 numbers get more rvers in over their heads with too much rv & not enough truck mostly due to the salespeople of both not knowing or caring.
That rating was arrived at by the manufacturer towing utility type trailers with the loads directly over the axles thereby reducing tongue/pin weights thereby reducing the payload placed on the truck, this in NO WAY compares to towing RVs where the load is fixed.
With a tow capacity of 14800 that could be over 3000 lbs of pin weight which comes directly off the truck payload number + the weight of the hitch + the weight of the installed air bags + everyone/everything else in the truck.
What's the payload of YOUR F250 posted on the door?
That's the numbers you use along with the appropriate percentage of a 5th wheel pin weight (20-25%) of the GVWR of YOUR rv.
As stayed earlier your F250 will "move" that weight with ease, it's the ability to "carry" that much weight safely within the limits of the truck is the concern.
Good luck & be safe!
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 10:57 AM   #25
John3Dtraveler
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Texas
Posts: 44
Somebody special ordered an F350 and then backed out.
I just bought it. No worries about towing now!
John3Dtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 11:13 AM   #26
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Somebody special ordered an F350 and then backed out.
I just bought it. No worries about towing now!
BAM!!! Congrats, is it a DRW by chance?
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 12:27 PM   #27
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Somebody special ordered an F350 and then backed out.
I just bought it. No worries about towing now!
Guess you think that "somebody special" was great because they backed out of the deal and you were able to find the 1 ton you wanted!
BTW: What part of Texas are you from? You are right about few 1 tons on the Ford lots; hardly any in Hondo or Uvalde, not sure about San Antonio as I don't like to go into the big city.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 12:56 PM   #28
LHaven
Senior Member
 
LHaven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Per the Ford dealer where I bought my truck it is rated to tow a 14800 pound load and I will just ensure that I do not go above that. The tag on the trailer states that it weighs 13000 so I can add no more than 1,800 pounds of cargo
First off, glad you found yourself a 350.

The "tow rating" is a fine number IF you're towing something with a wheel on all four corners... but you're not. If you're towing anything that loads your rear axle, it's meaningless, because it's not the number you exceed first. ("Dealers lie.")

The yellow sticker is the gold standard. The payload number applies to your individual truck as built and optioned (minus anything you added to it later). It's the number you usually run out of before any other one.

Take that payload number, subtract 23% of your 5er max weight, the weight of your added hitch, passengers, and truck-based cargo, and that's the window you need to hit.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
LHaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 01:30 PM   #29
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Somebody special ordered an F350 and then backed out.
I just bought it. No worries about towing now!
Congratulations! You made the right decision
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:14 PM   #30
John3Dtraveler
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Texas
Posts: 44
Well, I suppose I should have added some italics to my previous post. It should have read -someone special ordered- the F350
It's an SRW long bed. I didn't want a long bed but now that I've driven it I'm impressed by how much smoother the ride is compared to my F250 with the 6 3/4 box. No jiggity-jiggity movement, just smooth sailing.
I was happy to get an F350 because here in South Texas (Houston/Galveston) there is a VERY limited number of F350's available. My usual dealer tells me that they hope to start receiving trucks in July. I didn't want to wait until July.

So...for all who gave me the F350 advice...I'm gonna try this again..."And Away We Go!"
John3Dtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 05:56 PM   #31
chuckster57
Site Team
 
chuckster57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
I have always towed with a long bed. No need to think about a slider hitch, and yeah a full sheet of plywood fits
__________________

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
chuckster57 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2021, 06:22 PM   #32
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Somebody special ordered an F350 and then backed out.
I just bought it. No worries about towing now!
Well SRW Ford, so with a Ram a 3500 LB would have a GVWR of 12,300#, with Ford the GVWR on that F350 could be as low as 9,900# or as high as 12,400# which is it and what is the Payload on the yellow sticker. You will still be pushing the limits with a 5er with a 17,000# GVWR.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 03:42 AM   #33
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Well, I suppose I should have added some italics to my previous post. It should have read -someone special ordered- the F350
It's an SRW long bed. I didn't want a long bed but now that I've driven it I'm impressed by how much smoother the ride is compared to my F250 with the 6 3/4 box. No jiggity-jiggity movement, just smooth sailing.
I was happy to get an F350 because here in South Texas (Houston/Galveston) there is a VERY limited number of F350's available. My usual dealer tells me that they hope to start receiving trucks in July. I didn't want to wait until July.

So...for all who gave me the F350 advice...I'm gonna try this again..."And Away We Go!"
Inflection is one of the drawbacks of the written word vs verbalizing thoughts, don't sweat it. Nice looking truck, I imagine you'll get enjoyment from it even after the "new care smell" disappears.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 07:30 AM   #34
hookd
Junior Member
 
hookd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Great Falls
Posts: 17
Congrats on the new rig! You sure kicked over the ant hill of tow police with this one lol. I pull an impact 341 with a a 2018 F350 srw cclb, I did add airbags to help level the rig. It also really helps with stability in cross winds. You'll have to let us know how you like pulling with that 10 speed. Oh and let's see some pictures or it didn't happen!
hookd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 07:46 AM   #35
Badbart56
Senior Member
 
Badbart56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: USA and Canada
Posts: 870
I really enjoy reading the post and the responses on the truck vs weight limits here. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally all about safety out here on the roads, as many of you know I'm an OTR driver. And I wish I was able to get pictures of all that I see on the roads on a given day. The one that stands out from a few days ago, I'm running up hill in Wyoming, doing about 60 mph as I'm loaded to a little over 75K pounds and I see a small flatbed with a mini excavator on it ahead of me. It's a Hot Shot trailer, made for one ton duallys to carry. And I'm closing on it real fast. Faster than I should because he's probably hauling only about 10K pounds plus his trailer weight, maybe another 6K pounds.....he should be able to maintain at least the speed I was going. And I pull out to pass him and I'm blowing by.....and I see....he's pulling it with a Ram 1500 that has a gooseneck hitch installed!?!? Really!? I don't know how he made it that far! I would love to have heard the conversation that a DOT officer would have with him!
__________________


2010 FZ 405

2011 F350 6.7 Dually w/Banks Power making 510 hp and 1065 ft/lbs torque
Badbart56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 09:28 AM   #36
Wohnmobil
Member
 
Wohnmobil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: North Texas
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Air bags do not increase towing capacity, they actually reduce it by the weight of the air bags and hardware. I have them on my F250 because of the transition from my driveway to street is a dip and I can bump up the rear end a little so it doesn't drag. They also comein handy while hitching up. If you search the forum you will find many, many posts on this subject, some very informative, some very impassioned. Most folks agree that not only does towing overweight create a saftey issue it also creates a liability issue if you are involved in an accident and God forgive especially it results in a death.

First off I'm no attorney and this is not legal advice, just something to think about. If a seroious accident occures the lawyer (and perhaps the authorities if they want to file criminal negligance charges) will sopeana the contents of the truck's "black box". From that they can ascertain not only speed, braking, etc. but it will reveal the weight of the object being towed and theload it placed upon the truck. Your insurance company may even refuse to cover the damages due to negligace or improper use of the vehichle. Can you imagine if the worst happened and the other side's attorney is telling the jurrors that "this man's wife and baby were taken away because the defendent decided to purchase a cqmper for X amount of money but KNOWINGLY didn't want to spend the money to properly equipe the set up with a proper tow vehichle. I don't think the "I couldn't find a truck, or I had to wait because of X reason" would be an effective defense.

The above are some of the reasons why I will not tow overweight. This is not meant to chastise or disrespect your decision but rather to make anyone reding this aware of what the ramifications could be if things don't go well. Enjoy and travel safe.
Not to hijack the thread, but…

I’m not sure where your getting your information about the data a vehicles “black box” records. While you are correct it does record speed, acceleration, deceleration, braking, etc., it does not however measure what weight is placed in or on the vehicle. That said law enforcement will surely attempt to get a search warrant for all of the data the black box records, which is about 20 seconds worth, to try and determine any contributing factors in a SERIOUS collision.
__________________
Rick

2020 Chevrolet 2500HD LT/Z71 4X4 6.6L Gasser CC
2021 Cougar Half-Ton 22RDS
Husky CenterLine TS
Wohnmobil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 10:40 AM   #37
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wohnmobil View Post
Not to hijack the thread, but…

I’m not sure where your getting your information about the data a vehicles “black box” records. While you are correct it does record speed, acceleration, deceleration, braking, etc., it does not however measure what weight is placed in or on the vehicle. That said law enforcement will surely attempt to get a search warrant for all of the data the black box records, which is about 20 seconds worth, to try and determine any contributing factors in a SERIOUS collision.
My information was relayed to me after my DW was involved in a serious accident and we employed an accident reconstructionist. He did the same thing for 30 years with the Maryland State Police before retiring and going into buisness for himself. As he's certified and considered an "expert witness" in the courts I didn't challenge his statements. I was with him at the dealer's body shop when he downloaded the info from her truck's CMU and he showed me the info from it. Where are you getting conflicting information from?
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 03:41 PM   #38
Wohnmobil
Member
 
Wohnmobil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: North Texas
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
My information was relayed to me after my DW was involved in a serious accident and we employed an accident reconstructionist. He did the same thing for 30 years with the Maryland State Police before retiring and going into buisness for himself. As he's certified and considered an "expert witness" in the courts I didn't challenge his statements. I was with him at the dealer's body shop when he downloaded the info from her truck's CMU and he showed me the info from it. Where are you getting conflicting information from?
Personal knowledge after being a state trooper for 25 yrs. Passenger vehicles are not equipped with sensors that record loaded weight in vehicles. Some commercial trucks (log trucks for example) do have on board scales that can record load information, if they are hooked into a recorder.

It is possible to obtain the vehicles curb weight and other data specific to the vehicle, input into the Data recorder by the manufacturer. Some vehicles have weight sensors in the seat that sense when someone is sitting in the seat.

I’m curious as to what weights he showed you.
__________________
Rick

2020 Chevrolet 2500HD LT/Z71 4X4 6.6L Gasser CC
2021 Cougar Half-Ton 22RDS
Husky CenterLine TS
Wohnmobil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 04:36 PM   #39
John3Dtraveler
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Texas
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by hookd View Post
Congrats on the new rig! You sure kicked over the ant hill of tow police with this one lol. I pull an impact 341 with a a 2018 F350 srw cclb, I did add airbags to help level the rig. It also really helps with stability in cross winds. You'll have to let us know how you like pulling with that 10 speed. Oh and let's see some pictures or it didn't happen!
Hookd, your reply was a breath of fresh air, thanks.
I looked up the part number on the airbags that I had ordered and it does not match the part number for my new truck. I'm going to talk to them tomorrow morning and see what we can do. I do intend to add the airbags.
How do you add pictures to these post? I was trying to add a picture in another post I had about a waste water tank release valve and it kept asking me for a URL for the location of the picture.
Not sure what that's all about.
John3Dtraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2021, 04:43 PM   #40
jasin1
Senior Member
 
jasin1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Upper Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 4,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by John3Dtraveler View Post
Hookd, your reply was a breath of fresh air, thanks.
I looked up the part number on the airbags that I had ordered and it does not match the part number for my new truck. I'm going to talk to them tomorrow morning and see what we can do. I do intend to add the airbags.
How do you add pictures to these post? I was trying to add a picture in another post I had about a waste water tank release valve and it kept asking me for a URL for the location of the picture.
Not sure what that's all about.
You may want to check with the manufacturer..it’s possible that it’s just a bracket difference or small piece of hardware that is the difference between the two trucks.. the air bags and compressor is probably the same...they may be able to ship the additional brackets and updated install sheet
__________________
2020 Cougar 315 RLS
2020 Ram 3500 6.7HO 4.10 Dually Aisin
jasin1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.