Unhappy with quality

[chuckster57]

Only real noticeable difference I see is a “factory order” unit has way more issues than a “stock” unit.

Factory orders are already sold so they slam them out.

[tech740]

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

ha - no doubt. Appliance failure aside, quality of a Friday unit might be sub-par...though with paid-by-count manufacturing, not by much!

When I took mine back to Forest River for many manufacturer issues they said mine must have been built on the Friday before a holiday weekend.

[Poppy]

Everyone I know that owns a camper of any type, has had, does have, or will have problems of some sort. Just remember thought, they are al built with the least expensive components to build the best earthquake resistant product.
So repairing is part of the RVing life.
That’s the way I look at it. I fix it if I can, otherwise I call repair.
Happy RVing, everyone.

[KeystoneKal]

With the pandemic,RV sales are emptying the dealers lots and the manufacturers are probably pushing as many RVs off the assembly lines as they can produce to meet demand. An older video on YouTube shows a JAYCO assembly line with the workers literally running as they work. Once the market is saturated the assembly pace should slow and defects in workmanship could be less.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Poppy

Everyone I know that owns a camper of any type, has had, does have, or will have problems of some sort. Just remember thought, they are al built with the least expensive components to build the best earthquake resistant product.
So repairing is part of the RVing life.
That’s the way I look at it. I fix it if I can, otherwise I call repair.
Happy RVing, everyone.

What you forgot to mention Joe can take his GED received in prison to any manufacturer the day he gets out of rehab and becomes a master electrician or journeyman plumber.

[KeystoneKal]

Many of the workers at the RV plants in Indiana are Amish. I doubt if there are master electricians or craftsmen on the assembly line. I’m guessing the average worker is motivated by meeting quotas. “Amish Craftsmanship” may only apply to furniture.

[pdaniel]

I think all buyers are experiencing the low quality-which was never stellar to begin with. High demand is resulting in quantity before quality with all of the manufacturers.

[Jim55]

The American RV industry is in a similar state to that of the American automobile industry of the 70's and 80's. Competition from overseas is what caused vast improvements in our auto industry during that time. The American auto industry had to improve quickly or suffer lost sales to a new "true competitor".

True competition is what is needed now to improve the dismal quality of our RV industry. The problem the RV consumer has is that there is no "true competition" in the industry. Keystone vs Jayco vs Heartland is not true competition. . . they are all owned by one company.

I have been an RVer for 11 years and full time for the last 7 years. I love RVing and plan to continue for some time. My post here has a negative tone to it and I apologize for that. But the simple fact is that there is no excuse for the lack of quality control and innovation in the RV industry. There is no excuse for a new RV to be delivered to a customer with a water heater that was plumed incorrectly at the factory and never put out a drop of hot water from day one. The unit made it through a well promoted but nonexistent QC program at the factory and nonexistent dealer prep on the retail end. This happened to a friend.

The only answer I can come up with is competition. And I'm not sure where that will come from. One thing I am sure of though is that making excuses for those that manufacture and sell these products in not the answer. Maybe consumer protection action on a state or federal level is an answer.

[skmct]

I remember telling an old timer about all the things that went wrong the first year. We towed it about 11000. Miles the first year. You know what he said to me. Just think about what your dragging behind you. Try hooking up to your house and pull it down the road an see what will stop working break or fall off.

[Davidlawrence]

I have a 331 high country that is heading back to dealer tomorrow. In two years they have probably had it 9 months. Now we have frayed cable on slide, different slide going in crooked causing damaged, and fiberglass coming loose on slide side.
I have made many repairs myself. This one must have been made on a Friday before quitting time.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Jim55

The American RV industry is in a similar state to that of the American automobile industry of the 70's and 80's. Competition from overseas is what caused vast improvements in our auto industry during that time. The American auto industry had to improve quickly or suffer lost sales to a new "true competitor".

True competition is what is needed now to improve the dismal quality of our RV industry. The problem the RV consumer has is that there is no "true competition" in the industry. Keystone vs Jayco vs Heartland is not true competition. . . they are all owned by one company.

I have been an RVer for 11 years and full time for the last 7 years. I love RVing and plan to continue for some time. My post here has a negative tone to it and I apologize for that. But the simple fact is that there is no excuse for the lack of quality control and innovation in the RV industry. There is no excuse for a new RV to be delivered to a customer with a water heater that was plumed incorrectly at the factory and never put out a drop of hot water from day one. The unit made it through a well promoted but nonexistent QC program at the factory and nonexistent dealer prep on the retail end. This happened to a friend.

The only answer I can come up with is competition. And I'm not sure where that will come from. One thing I am sure of though is that making excuses for those that manufacture and sell these products in not the answer. Maybe consumer protection action on a state or federal level is an answer.

I don't get from reading all the posts on the forum that anyone is "making excuses" for the manufacturers, more a realization of the situation and the impact it has on us as buyers. I'm not sure how consumer protection at any level would apply. There aren't generally any blatant safety issues so what would they do....tell them to build a better quality trailer? But keep the price where it is? That won't work. Quality costs money; people don't want to pay big money; manufacturers build to the price point people want to buy....and so the merry go round continues.

Competition would be nice but from whom? I don't see any RV manufacturer startup in the U.S., that wants to snag a significant share of the RV market, coming in and making a top notch, quality RV and doing well - it would be a tiny niche. You would have to meet the pricing of your competition or not succeed. Cheap foreign labor might help a foreign RV maker but if I were the U.S. I would slap tariffs on them then they would be like all the rest.....except those from China/Japan...in the bedroom you get a tiny little mat for a mattress, rice paper for carpet and a hot plate for a tea kettle. Hmmm, nah, I'll tighten those screws.

[gearhead]

Highest quality I have seen is Bigfoot. Very limited models of cabovers and travel trailers. The biggest TT is maybe 25ft. I think they might push 2 or 3 units out the door a week, total. They use all the same components as everyone else but what they build in house is first class.
Of course you pay dearly. A cabover is pushing $50 and the bigger trailer is about $60.

[JRTJH]

Look at it from a "realistic, what can <I> do about the quality?" (emphasis on the <I>)

1. I can just walk away and not buy an RV "until the manufacturers fix things at the factory"... Probable result: I'll die without ever owning another RV...

2. I can become a PITA for the manufacturer and the dealership, insisting they fix things. Probable result: My rig will sit on the back row until hell freezes.

3. I can continue to be a PITA, insisting on "perfection". Probable result: I'll eventually be told, "here's your RV, don't come back"...

4. I can find a competent lawyer. Probable result: I'll spend far more than I'll ever get in "quality returns" and the lawyer will retire in the Caribbean on my money.....

Moral of this "story": There's "virtually nothing" one person (<I>) can do to change a multi-billion dollar business, so either accept their products or don't buy their products.... I know this isn't "the way it ought to be"... but reality is very often, not what we want it to be.....

[flybouy]

As long as consumers want, and are willing to buy, cheap trailers then nothing will change. It's simple economics.

Years ago people bought goods (mostly made in America) from Sears and other retailers and paid more to get quality. Discount stores popped up and sold similar products manufactured overseas for much less. The discount stores thrived and the Sears types are out of business.

When Sam Walton started Walmart he said he would only allow American made products in his store. That went away when the competition started eating into Walmart's sales numbers. Now,you'll find very, very items in a Walmart with a "made in the USA" label. "Made in China" is the prevalent label.

So don't blame anyone but yourself, the American consumer for the results.

JMHO

[purebred]

Originally Posted by flybouy

As long as consumers want, and are willing to buy, cheap trailers then nothing will change. It's simple economics.

Years ago people bought goods (mostly made in America) from Sears and other retailers and paid more to get quality. Discount stores popped up and sold similar products manufactured overseas for much less. The discount stores thrived and the Sears types are out of business.

When Sam Walton started Walmart he said he would only allow American made products in his store. That went away when the competition started eating into Walmart's sales numbers. Now,you'll find very, very items in a Walmart with a "made in the USA" label. "Made in China" is the prevalent label.

So don't blame anyone but yourself, the American consumer for the results.

JMHO

I don't know, I spent 70,00 dollars for our Alpine and I sure as heck don't consider that a cheap trailer. Maybe you do but I don't.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by purebred

I don't know, I spent 70,00 dollars for our Alpine and I sure as heck don't consider that a cheap trailer. Maybe you do but I don't.

Cheap is a relative term. What would that 70k buy you in terms of size & amenities with Airstream or Flyte Camp, or a "custom hand built" from some independent shop?

If your $70k trailer was built with high quality master craftsmanship with detailed quality control I'm guessing it would cost significantly more

I think if any RV dealer could build the unit with significantly higher quality at a comparable cost they would be "all over it".

[purebred]

Well I guess that's your opinion and you know what they say about that. Just too bad American made products are going the way they are.

[wiredgeorge]

Got to jump in and say I bought a used 2002 Cougar 5th wheel (278 model) a few years ago and have had no structural, appliance or problems with fit and fittings such as cabinets, drawers, etc. I paid $5000. I did have to make sure urgently needed component changes such as replacing carpet with vinyl flooring, replacing the AquaMagic toilet with a 320 Dometic and replacing the mattress with a premium standard queen. Since then, I have replaced quite a few outside plastic bits that deteriorated with age but nothing expensive. I have made other mods for convenience and comfort but have not had ANY of the issues so many complain about.


Why? Perhaps these things were rectified many years ago OR perhaps quality was a tad better in the early 2000s? Dunno but I am grateful I am too poor to spend the huge bucks needed to purchase a NEW camper. I paid cash which I am also grateful for. Cheers!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by purebred

Well I guess that's your opinion and you know what they say about that. Just too bad American made products are going the way they are.

What specific "fixes" would you make to improve the RV end product quality? Keep in mind that to remain competitive and not go bankrupt, you have to continue selling each trailer for the same profit margin to maintain your investment portfolio...

How would you "improve quality and not increase price" ?????

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

What specific "fixes" would you make to improve the RV end product quality? Keep in mind that to remain competitive and not go bankrupt, you have to continue selling each trailer for the same profit margin to maintain your investment portfolio...

How would you "improve quality and not increase price" ?????

Perhaps hire all Amish craftsman? Read the job ads by googling RV jobs. Piece work, 5AM first shift. No experience required (will train).



This industry is what it is.