What's UP with these dealers?!?!

FTWingRiders · 07-10-2013, 07:04 PM

Hello all,

Thought I'd share my first attempt at warranty story with everyone. The DW and I purchased a new 2013 cougar 325SXR this spring. After talking to 2 dealers, one who said they only work on what they sale, and Pete's RV in Burlington VT, we chose Pete's for almost a $5000 dollar savings. Yes, Pete's was the furthest away, about 4 hours.. but hey.. thats $5K!! Brought it home the first of May.

Started having the dreaded control panel failures right away in the driveway. Alan in service seamed like he was interested in helping me out. Understood that an 8 hour round trip wasn't my idea of a good time, gave me the idea to check with a closer Keystone dealer to do the service work. Called Flagg Rv in Ma on May 21, They are a Keystone dealer, but not the Cougar line. Talked to Mike in Service, and explained the situation. No problem, he said. First appointment that worked for both of us was July 16, next week. Great, I had the week of the 4th planned camping trip, and that would give it a good shake down, and show any other issues.

Had a great week with the family, except noticed my basement rug getting soaked.. a little investigating lead me to the pump for the water tank. Even though I was on city water, there was pressure on the outlet side, and the pump was leaking, looks like a cracked outlet port. OK, so I went to the hardware store, and bought a threaded cap for the hose, works fine to stop the leak, and the basement dried out in a day or so.

Figured I'd call Flagg today to give a heads up on it, have them check the awning for recall, and see about toppers for the slides. Now the fun begins.. No answer for service, so I leave a message, (now I will say he called back within 5 minutes). Mike claims, I'm not in the schedule, and doesn't know who I am, and never talked to me.. WHAA?!! I explain to him again, and he replies that they don't do warranty work on a unit bought from a "wholesale dealer", and that they wont do warranty work on a cougar. Then claims that they have attempted to repair a few of those control panels, but "never had any success".

Now I feel I did pretty good about keeping the temper in check.. my wife has FINALLY beat the "more bees with honey.." thing. However, he WASN'T interested in even acknowledging that we had ever spoken, (though my notes tell me different). My guess? They changed their policies, pissed that another dealer was selling for cheaper and costing them sales, and decided to just void my appointment. It would have been a GRAND time if I had shown up next Tuesday for my appointment, camper in tow and trying to make it to work and such and they pulled this on me then!!

I guess I'm going to be calling Pete's back tomorrow, and see what they say. Maybe I can have them ship a new pump to me, at least I know it will be done right. As to the panel? I'm not optimistic.. sigh.. LOL!!!

**JRTJH** · 07-10-2013, 07:19 PM

Sorry to hear about your problems with a "non selling" dealer. Many of our members have run into the same type issues so it really comes as no surprise. Keystone, in their 2013 revision of the owner's manual made a change that essentially says any Keystone dealer is authorized to repair Keystone RV's and that their dealership network stands ready to help Keystone customers enjoy their products. We've had several comments on a thread about this very topic this past week. Also, the Cougar control panel has been a problem for owners since it first appeared in the 2012 models. Keystone says they are working on the problems and a revised panel has been issued, but it apparently also has problems, so the complaints continue. Good luck with your warranty repairs, let's hope Pete's will come through for you.

As for the water pump leak, are you using a pressure regulator on your city water input? Most of us rely heavily on a good regulator set at 45-55 PSI to protect our plumbing from the high pressure found in some campgrounds.

theeyres · 07-10-2013, 07:40 PM

Yep, sorry to hear about your problems and this is a repeating problem. I don't know about Keystone's new policy but over and over, I hear complaints about shops that won't work on Rv's sold by a "wholesale" dealer, or any other dealer. There is usually a reason that somebody will sell for $5000 less and that seems to be because they know they don't have to service the RV. Good luck and I think you are stuck with going back to the seller.

If it helps, I had the same problems when I bought another brand from a seller 300 miles away. I finally dumped the trailer at a big loss, figuring I learned my lesson the hard way.

jconnon · 07-31-2013, 07:36 AM

I am a little concerned about the service part of it myself. I just bought a new 345DBQ Mountaineer from General RV in Canton, OH for a $4000.00 savings even after paying $1000 to have it delivered. I originally tried several times to negotiate a better price with Arlington RV in RI with no success. I have had a couple of issues so far and after calling a couple of dealers for help realized I am kinda on my own. The cost just to get my RV to someone to look at it outweighs me fixing stuff myself. Also I do not mean this to be a negative post against General RV as they have been great so far when I have called but in both cases they would need the RV to work on the problem.

07-31-2013, 10:58 AM

I am a jack of all trades, master of none, shade tree, do it yourselfer! That being said, I tried to buy my unit without a warranty for a discount. No one would take the bait. But I have proven to myself and to Keystone that I can repair anything on these campers better and with more quality than any dealer can even think about.

I refuse to leave my camper at a dealer for extended periods of time sitting on the lot waiting for a subpar repair that wastes my time and usually ends up with me taking more days off work and more travel time, not to mention the frustration and aggravation of dealing with these yoyo's because it's not done right the first time...or the batteries are dead when I pick it up...the unit is filthy dirty...and I just don't have a good feeling about who's been doing what in my rv.

**JRTJH** · 07-31-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCajun

I am a jack of all trades, master of none, shade tree, do it yourselfer! That being said, I tried to buy my unit without a warranty for a discount. No one would take the bait. But I have proven to myself and to Keystone that I can repair anything on these campers better and with more quality than any dealer can even think about.

I refuse to leave my camper at a dealer for extended periods of time sitting on the lot waiting for a subpar repair that wastes my time and usually ends up with me taking more days off work and more travel time, not to mention the frustration and aggravation of dealing with these yoyo's because it's not done right the first time...or the batteries are dead when I pick it up...the unit is filthy dirty...and I just don't have a good feeling about who's been doing what in my rv.

Spoken like a "TRUE RCA" <wink> Only you left out one little bit.... That's the vulnerability to any "less than desireable" who has a crowbar, hammer or big screwdriver to help himself to anything he might want that's in or on your RV........ I prefer mine at home too

FTWingRiders · 07-31-2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jconnon

I am a little concerned about the service part of it myself. I just bought a new 345DBQ Mountaineer from General RV in Canton, OH for a $4000.00 savings even after paying $1000 to have it delivered. I originally tried several times to negotiate a better price with Arlington RV in RI with no success. I have had a couple of issues so far and after calling a couple of dealers for help realized I am kinda on my own. The cost just to get my RV to someone to look at it outweighs me fixing stuff myself. Also I do not mean this to be a negative post against General RV as they have been great so far when I have called but in both cases they would need the RV to work on the problem.

I get what you're sayin'... I couldn't justify the $5k extra just to buy from the closer dealer. I think it's some kind of game they play when they refuse to work on a camper that wasn't bought from them. When I was looking, and they told me that, it just left a bad taste.. Like I have to learn a secret handshake (or pump out extra dollars), just to be their friend.. don't need 'em!!

Pete's has been helpful to me, just a little far to drop off to fix something that shouldn't have left the factory broke. And whats a "Wholesale dealer" compared to a regular? Pete looks just like any dealer with a showroom, shop, parts dept, etc.. I think the other dealers hate the dealers that undercut the price on them.

Like others have said, I'd rather work on it my own, in my driveway, knowing I'll do at least as good a job, if not better, than I could get at a dealer. If something comes up that it MUST go back to the dealer, I'll worry about it then.

jconnon · 08-01-2013, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTWingRiders

I get what you're sayin'... I couldn't justify the $5k extra just to buy from the closer dealer. I think it's some kind of game they play when they refuse to work on a camper that wasn't bought from them. When I was looking, and they told me that, it just left a bad taste.. Like I have to learn a secret handshake (or pump out extra dollars), just to be their friend.. don't need 'em!!

Pete's has been helpful to me, just a little far to drop off to fix something that shouldn't have left the factory broke. And whats a "Wholesale dealer" compared to a regular? Pete looks just like any dealer with a showroom, shop, parts dept, etc.. I think the other dealers hate the dealers that undercut the price on them.

Like others have said, I'd rather work on it my own, in my driveway, knowing I'll do at least as good a job, if not better, than I could get at a dealer. If something comes up that it MUST go back to the dealer, I'll worry about it then.

I agree with you. I also would prefer to do the work myself but part of it is the principal of the thing being a brand new camper with issues and I guess I expected it to be a little easier to handle warranty work. I have also called Keystone customer service and they were not helpful in the least. My local guy at Arlington was not pleased at all when I made my final counter offer and walked away but I gave him three opportunities to earn my business. I liked him, I just didn't like him $4000 more than the other guy.

BobnLee · 08-08-2013, 07:06 PM

I'm totally with you guys. My trailer will never see the inside of an RV dealership. My mechanic heavy truck diesel and bus mechanic and is an unbelievable mechanic and friend who fixes anything for almost nothing. If he cant find it he makes it. Trailer is there now getting worked over. Trailer has only been back to the dealer twice when the rubber on the slide (roof) was leaking. They fixed it the first time and then I took an picture of their fix and e mailed it to them. I said I was going to post their workmanship on the net and they fixed the problem right away even though they said they were too busy to look at it. It wont be back

Bob Landry · 08-09-2013, 04:10 AM

I've been in the marine service business for 15 years and my work is as good if not better than the dealer's, be it woodwork, electrical, air conditioning, or plumbing. So, I do my own. As far as customer service... I have called them with the simplest of questions and have always been refused information for some flimsy reason about looking out for their customers and products. I call BS on that, and for that reason, my next trailer will not be a Keystone. The least any of them could do is give you information that you ask for on an out of warranty trailer. Their Customer Service is actually Customer No-Service and they appear to be quiet satisfied with the "one time buyer" segment of the market. I prefer to build a relationship with companies I buy from, and obviously, Keystone has no interest in doing that.

Javi · 08-09-2013, 04:26 AM

When you figure that all of these RV manufactures and their subsidiaries are owned by the same company THOR; then you got also got to figure they're all run the same way, so who you gonna buy from now...

See list below....

Airstream
Breckenridge
CrossRoads RV
Dutchmen RV
Redwood RV
Keystone RV
Heartland RV

Bob Landry · 08-09-2013, 04:55 AM

If there is a next trailer, i'm going to look seriously at Prime Time.

x96mnn · 08-09-2013, 05:33 AM

I hear all your pain, experienced the we do not service what we do not sell. One thing to keep in mind are in my area there are two general RV repair centres that most people only think of for out of warranty work, when I contacted them they were more then happy to help, worked with manufacturers directly and got my AC replaced. Cost me $100 for long distance calls and leg work I asked them to do instead of myself but the gas savings of taking it back to the dealer was probably $300. (The dealer who told me to pound sand was roughly a mile down the road)

I also have become a lot more willing to do the work myself based on my experience. Unless its to do with the Black tank I prefer to do it myself even though my new dealer has been good an no complaints, i like it being in my control.

At the last RV show there was a Canada GOV pamphlet which they produced based on consumer complaints regarding service at non local dealers which tells you its better to buy local. Now it is a bit vague and I am not sure if they are trying to aim the message to cross border shopping or inter country shopping. One of their main points for buying local is not having to take your camper long distances for service repair.

@Bob

My next camper will be the one I like the most, regardless of the manufacturer. I feel they are all the same for the most part although like you have had experiences with a car that turned me away from a brand. I mean we say keystone but its no more then a Thor product which produces the majority in the market. Add my experience with Rvision which is a Monaco product, the only way I could send a message is not buy one at all but enjoy it way too much to do that.

x96mnn · 08-09-2013, 05:36 AM

@Bob,

You took the thought right out from me, was going to mention Prime Time in my post. I camped next to one this weekend and seriously considered on when I bought my Sprinter, apparently the company is made up of various executives from some leading RV companies and very customer focused.

Bob Landry · 08-09-2013, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x96mnn

@Bob,

You took the thought right out from me, was going to mention Prime Time in my post. I camped next to one this weekend and seriously considered on when I bought my Sprinter, apparently the company is made up of various executives from some leading RV companies and very customer focused.

The story that I have heard from a couple of sources is that the Haunchos at Prime Time actually came from Keystone and left because they did not like he way it was run and had little impact on changing it.

We bought out trailer at the Houston RV show and I went specifically to look at a Primetime. Unfortunately, no dealer there had the model I was interested in and did not get to look at it as planned. We walked into a Keystone exhibit, saw a 277RL and DW loved it, so that was it. I can't say that I'm unhappy with the trailer. I've fixed somethings that were minor and actually ended up with an improved version so I can't say I got a bad unit. That said, my beef is with their Customer Service and their lack of willingness to help you once the warranty runs out, even by a simple phone call. When I shop for the next one, I'll start by calling CS service and asking questions.
It's like buying a new computer. You start calling customer service centers just to see if you are going to get a person you can understand of if you have to deal with Ralph in India.

Javi · 08-09-2013, 05:49 AM

Yep Forest River Inc, a Berkshire Hathaway Company. Nice trailers, wonder if they're any better at handing out information.

I often see them on the same lot as the Keystone products, so I got to wonder if the dealers treat Prime Time customers different than they do Keystone customers..

x96mnn · 08-09-2013, 05:56 AM

Never really looked into it seriously until now and it did not take long to find, Prime Time is owned by Forest River

Not sure if there will be that much difference moving forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_River_(company)

pressure_welder · 08-13-2013, 05:22 AM

That was the biggest problem my wife and i had with our upgrade, we just did NOT know what company to buy from!. We came from a 2003 luxury touring edition 30ft Triple E Topaz fifth wheel, canadian made. We bought it brand spanking new off of the showroom floor 10 years ago, and never ONCE EVER did i encounter an single solitary issue. It was literally a hook up and go camper for 10 years other than the typical regular maintainence. You can just tell in the quality of the materials, i visited their factory, and each camper is made individually not on a rushed assembly line. Unfortunately they dont make fifth wheels anymore.

Our friend is a salesmen at our local dealer here in town, and they are great to us, we went to him asking what we do... because we did want to upgrade to somthing newer so we asked about laredo's and he said flat out they're not built like a topaz, but are still quite nice. So we went ahead and purchased our 2013 266RL, and we DO love it, but have also had a few issues with only owning it for 3 months, air conditioner blew, we assume cheap shower head cracked during our drive to the lake, and wife went to use it and actually hit her in the face once when turned the water pressure on, went to test the water pump and nothing! so i open up the panel in the main storage boot and find a 16" run of water hose to the pump bent at a
90* angle, when all they literally needed was to re-situate the pump and have a 4" run of line, misc loose band clamps etc so i fixed all the plumbing myself. These are basic issues which the dealer took care of promptly, but i have a feeling that the extended warrenty will be highly nessecary unfortunately. However i will be HIGHLY suggesting that i get a damn good deal on it, frankly i think a 1yr manufacturer's is garbage when you have subpar quality. The owner who gave me the tour of the triple E factory when we bought our topaz said the best quote ive heard in the RV industry.... ( as you can see here, our guys take our time building each camper, and take pride in their work. We HATE warrenty claims so we build it right the first time) I try and do a majority of the repairs myself, iam only about 15 minutes from the dealer but most of the time i just cant be bothered to hook up and let the camper sit at the dealer for 2-3 days, EVEN though they usually get me in RIGHT away and are super fast with repairs. I will say i have had nothing but positive warrenty experiences at my dealer, and i am sure will continue too, could help that i played hockey with my salesmen since i was 4 years old?

i work as a high pressure pipe welder in a generating station, and we deal with high energy super heated steam piping, if i make a sub-par weld.... people die, so i take alot of pride in my work... its unforunate these RV manufactuer's dont do the same. To me its a good feeling when you complete a quality job, how they can let some of that crap out the door is sickening!

sjturbo · 08-13-2013, 06:32 AM

Thank goodness that the auto industry is not like the RV industry!!! If any of the big names in cars worked like the RV dealers they would be out of business quick. We decided to move up to a 5th wheel a number of months ago and I started reading forums of models that fit our needs. I found that of the three we were interested in; Elk Ridge, Laredo, and Jayco - All have the same issues with new units and the reluctance of dealers to honor or support warranties of units bought at competing dealers. Even though I like new I could not justify that purchase based on the quality of the units coming out. We purchased a used but not abused Laredo based on the premise that any warranty issues had been addressed, (we bought a 2010 316RL) during the warranty period. Certainly I expect to work through issues that come up due to system failures or quality issues over time but at least I do not have to work with dealers that put customer service at the bottom of their list. I believe that until buyers say enough is enough the RV industry will remain the same.

lawdes · 08-30-2013, 01:42 PM

I gotta admit, my experience with Keystone was a little better. Have a passport 31re. First long trip (about 3500 miles) discovered a bent axle. Kept an eye on it and on the left rear wheel. Wore the tread off the inside edge before we got home so had to change it. Less than a month before keystone warranty was up although I think Dexter has 2 yrs warranty. Anyway, dealer I bought it from said they don't do axles. Keystone suggested another dealer in town (Tulsa) who did take it. They were excellent to work with (Camperland) and they worked closely with Keystone. Keystone not only replaced the bent axle but replaced and upgraded both axles AND replaced the ruined tire. Couldn't be more pleased with both dealer and Keystone. Found other minor issues but not serious. All in all very happy with the trailer. Reading these posts I know I have been lucky so far!

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