What's The Real Scoop?

[MRobSr]

Do to some really helpful feedback from you’al, (Can My Tundra Handle a Cougar 29BHL?) I traded my 2023 Tundra for a new 2024 Silverado, 3500 HD 6.6 diesel, 4x4. Door sticker reads 4,200lbs of payload so feeling much better about buying the Cougar 29BHL that we like so much. Thanks again for all the spot-on feedback!
Now in need of some new veteran insights… Seems everywhere we look, there is an endless barrage of impassioned warnings about buying a new RV today. “DON’T DO IT” they say! To many quality control problems 2019/2024, right out of the box. Also, ongoing problems with dealer service centers backed up for weeks/months, so good luck getting warrantee work done. Several warnings about lack of legal protections for buyers if you end up with a lemon (Covid babies) cuz you’ll be screwed as issues can be severe and traumatic and you’ll have a real nightmare on your hands!
Understanding the nature of the “Social Media” universe, comments tend to focus on the negative so… what’s the real scoop on all of this??
Did Covid put a stink on the entire RV industry?? When shopping Keystone/Cougar, would we be better off going used to predate the Covid catastrophe? I guess that’s what, pre 2018? Prior to their purchase by Thor? I guess that's pre 2014?
Is buying 2024 ok if we get a professional inspection done before taking possession from the dealer or is that overkill?
All thoughts please. Thanks again in advance!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by MRobSr

Do to some really helpful feedback from you’al, (Can My Tundra Handle a Cougar 29BHL?) I traded my 2023 Tundra for a new 2024 Silverado, 3500 HD 6.6 diesel, 4x4. Door sticker reads 4,200lbs of payload so feeling much better about buying the Cougar 29BHL that we like so much. Thanks again for all the spot-on feedback!
Now in need of some new veteran insights… Seems everywhere we look, there is an endless barrage of impassioned warnings about buying a new RV today. “DON’T DO IT” they say! To many quality control problems 2019/2024, right out of the box. Also, ongoing problems with dealer service centers backed up for weeks/months, so good luck getting warrantee work done. Several warnings about lack of legal protections for buyers if you end up with a lemon (Covid babies) cuz you’ll be screwed as issues can be severe and traumatic and you’ll have a real nightmare on your hands!
Understanding the nature of the “Social Media” universe, comments tend to focus on the negative so… what’s the real scoop on all of this??
Did Covid put a stink on the entire RV industry?? When shopping Keystone/Cougar, would we be better off going used to predate the Covid catastrophe? I guess that’s what, pre 2018? Prior to their purchase by Thor? I guess that's pre 2014?
Is buying 2024 ok if we get a professional inspection done before taking possession from the dealer or is that overkill?
All thoughts please. Thanks again in advance!

I’d say the majority of rvs built are reliable and mostly “major” problem free….Almost all of them will have minor issues that need to be sorted out…It all depends on what kind of attitude you have dealing with it…I bought new in 2020 and decided i wouldn’t take my unit to the dealer for any warranty work that i could fix myself. I don’t want my rig sitting for months on a dealers lot waiting to get a couple of hundred dollars worth of repairs done…Frame? Roof? or major structural problems? yep i’d take to the dealer IF they agree it’s covered under warranty…if not im fixing myself or hiring my own contractors.

If your the type of person that will complain over every little issue then you probably won’t be happy owning an rv

I think if you buy used from a private individual then a rv inspector is a good idea…maybe also ask seller to have the rig state inspected. Really no way of knowing if your gonna get a good unit or a problem but do your homework and don’t be afraid to get on the roof and look everything over and try everything in the rig to make sure it works BEFORE you sign any papers or give any money.

Warranty work, from what i’ve seen on the forum, is just subjecting yourself to frustration and red tape…. there are a few success story’s of the process going smooth but it just seems random and arbitrary to me…I think i’d almost rather not have a warranty at all so i don’t get my hopes up and save with a used unit…but it would have to be a significant cost difference

Ive been thinking of used,full body paint toy hauler for the future and hopefully any issues have already been ironed out…close look at frame and tires to see if any twisting or alignment issues..good look at the roof and take a look at sidewalls particularly around the front slides for broken welds..and then spend a lot of time questioning owner and trying out all the equipment then cross my fingers and hope for the best

[JRTJH]

Here's my "take on what you're asking"....

First, THOR bought Keystone RV Company in 2001, not 2014. So for the past 25 years there has been "THOR influence at Keystone RV". Also, remember that THOR also owns Airstream, the most expensive mass produced travel trailer manufactured today, and EVERY Airstream dealership has a service center to fix things that are covered by warranty and every one of those dealerships has a waiting list for appointments for repairs.

That out of the way, the "Covid trailer issues" IMO, are not anything new or anything that has significantly changed from "Pre Covid trailer issues"...

What's different??? The people buying today's trailers. Back "BC" (Before Covid) most people who bought new RV's were previous RV owners and understood the dealer limitations, manufacturing defects/problems and like Brian just posted, simply repaired their own minor problems, didn't return to the dealer unless it was a major issue they couldn't repair at home.

Today's "first time RV buyer" compares their RV to their new automobile purchase and "expect the same service from their dealer"... A little scratch or a small squeak or a loose screw, "run back to the dealer because we expect a perfect car".... That simply is NOT THE REALISTIC EXPECTATION ON ANY RV"... RV's are like houses, Go buy any "new real estate development tract home" and you'll have a punch list several pages long on that "brand new perfect home" and then, when you move in, you'll find another several pages of things you missed on the pre mortgage inspection... It's the same with a travel trailer.... It's a "small mobile house" not a "automobile assembled on a robotic computerized assembly line".... The two are significantly different in anticipated quality control and in actual quality purchased....

Now, dealerships have always had problems finding qualified RV service center employees, and AC (after Covid) that is even a more significant problem. Ride by any store, any factory, any restaurant, any car wash, any anything and you'll see a "HELP WANTED" sign in the window or on the marquee... It's the same with almost every RV service center. If they can't hire qualified people to work on your RV, they can't provide you "immediate service for a small "mis understood perfection issue" with a piece of loose trim or a cabinet door that isn't aligned properly or a nail hole with no putty in it next to the slide.....

If you expect those kinds of repairs done "when you stop by the dealership" then you're going to be very disappointed with the quality of any new RV. Just ask any "first time RV buyer" and they'll verify that their RV SUCKS.....

On the other hand, ask nearly any "old timer who just bought a new RV" and they'll expound on all the new conveniences they enjoy, the space inside, the storage, other good things they like about the new one.... Seldom will they talk about that nail hole missing putty or that cabinet door that's not aligned correctly. Chances are they fixed it sitting in their driveway while DW was loading for the first trip....

Don't let the "complaints that abound on the internet" scare you from any brand RV. Look at who's making those complaints and I'd suspect you'll discover that it's the "new, first time owner" who simply doesn't have any experience in the way RV's have been built and the problems with them that go back to my first new one, a 1968 Airstream that literally fell apart leaving the dealership on day #1.....

Today's travel trailers aren't any worse than those from back in the 70's or 80's or 2010's. It's just that with prices today, first time buyers have the expectation that their trailer should be flawless....

AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN !!!!!

[NH_Bulldog]

Echoing what others have said, every RV, new or used has issues and mine is no different. However, I fixed every would-be warranty issue myself rather than wait for a dealership.

The Lemon Law for passenger vehicles is state by state, (not federal) and doesn’t offer protections for towable RV’s except in maybe a few jurisdictions. It has long been discussed, but the industry lobby has fought hard against it.

I have owned several different brands, types and styles over the years and never had one be trouble-free. Considering the condition of our highway infrastructure, the fact that the roadsides are not littered with RV remnants is a testament to how well these things really are built.

Covid had a negative impact on the manufacturing industry as a whole, and we are still feeling the effects across all areas of our daily life.. In the RV industry (particularly late 2020 through late 2022) there was explosive demand for new units and the various companies really cranked them out at the expense of quality being worse than “normal”. The industry is generally getting back on track, but now we are looking at increased dealer inventory due to inflation and high interest rates.

The point of saying all this is to illustrate that there is always “something” to blame. Your best defense is knowledge. I doubt most dealerships would allow a third party inspector on site (often citing liability), so you should plan to spend a day at pickup to do your own inspection, test EVERYTHING, get on the roof, ask a LOT of questions, and above all else, do not sign on the dotted line until you have everything documented in writing and a commitment that they will address everything to your satisfaction.

[LHaven]

The industry as a whole has gotten lax in the past 25 years or so, to the point where if you buy a fairly recent model used, from a conscientious owner, it may well actually have fewer problems than one new off the lot (as the first owner will have had to address -- or at the very least become aware of -- its factory defects).

Keystone has introduced a new service offering (that I haven't personally tried), where they will deal directly with DIY owners for repair parts instead of having to funnel everything through dealers. You might want to investigate that.

[jfk69]

I agree with all of what’s been said so far. Not being flippant, but it’s a “pay your money and take your chances” deal. With that said, I believe most of the products are decent. I grew up with parents that were involved in the auto industry, and my father always had his vehicles built on Wednesday, Tuesday and Thursday in that order. Never on Monday or Friday. I’d guess RV’s are kind of the same.

The biggest thing with an RV is to be willing and able to wrench on it yourself to some degree. It will save you a lot of downtime. They really aren’t that difficult. I fix what I can (the majority of any issues that pop up) and pay for those I don’t feel comfortable with doing myself. With that said, I have a mobile RV service I use when needed and avoid dealerships like the plague. I also normally buy used to let someone else eat the depreciation so it limits my interface with dealers in which I have little confidence.

Also, always remember that people with complaints (both real and imagined) are far more likely to complain than satisfied people. Thus, on the internet, you’ll tend to read more negatives than positives.

[sourdough]

The "real scoop"? The internet can provide lots of "what the heck" comments along with scores of unhappy owner comments due to either their expectations or pre purchase due diligence but the "real scoop" today is about what is has been since I bought my first full size trailer in 1985. On that one I didn't do any kind of PDI, towed it off the lot, took it 300 miles to work out of it in winter and found that the blower in the furnace would rather howl than blow hot air - upon return the furnace was replaced sitting at the curb in front of my house by the owner of the RV sales place. First introduction to "RV perfection". Previous had been slide ins and pop up so expected problems and.....had them.

RV construction currently? About like it has been. Possibility or probability of a problem? Same. During Covid there was a huge demand for RVs as our society went upside down IMO. That curve and demand made the manufacturers do EVERYTHING possible to roll new units off the line even as they had worker, material and product shortages...insane. What some folks got during that short period was iffy....not so now in most respects. What HAS happened is a societal change in the work force attitude toward "work" along with workforce availability....but the manpower issue was always around. The basics "bones" of an RV haven't changed.

RV manufacturing isn't going to change. Buying used with unknown issues, abuse, "what they heck did they stick in here" situations are a no go for me. Buying a new RV requires one to do their homework. KNOW the systems prior to buying. KNOW what is supposed to do what. DO that 3-4 hour informed pre purchase inspection - make sure everything works properly. KNOW how they work when you leave and document it as they explain it to you. Look the new trailer over from the roof to the underside (get on a creeper). Make your expectations known to the dealership - I do not buy a car nor a RV without meeting the sales manager and the dealership owner or GM. I enforce with all of them my expectations and get their reassurances face to face.

Bottom line; find the trailer you love that fits that new truck (kudos to you), do the above, understand that any new RV can/will have some issues (hopefully you are a bit "handy"), take a 2-3 day/night trip in your driveway or local RV park to check things out then.......head out and have fun. I might add you probably need to take a fully stocked tool box, spares box etc. It's the nature of the beast but fun. I've said many times RV ownership happiness is dependent 100% on mindset - it's an RV; know the nature of the beast and be prepared for it and you will have a world of fun.

[Badbart56]

I delivered RV's in 2012 for Heartland. Upon delivery the dealers would do an inspection for damage as well as for quality issues before they would sign the delivery receipt. It wasn't out of the norm to see a list with 20-25 discrepancies on it. I doubt much has improved. Not sure if other brands are really any better.

We bought our Fuzion 405 used in 2015 and it had zero issues. The generator only had 73 hours on it and there were no signs of wear or damage. The best part- new, it listed for $64K. We got it for $31K when it was 5 years old. And the new equivalent today is over $100K.

Honestly, with the kids all gone and me and my wife being on the road as much as we were up until three years ago, we just haven't made the time to use it. And we certainly don't need one this big anymore.

[cougar23]

We have owned RV's for about 50 years. Our current RV is a Keystone Cougar 23MLE. This has been one of the most trouble free RV's we have ever owned. Like most others I fix it myself if possible.

[MRobSr]

I appreciate your response. May I ask, what year is it and when did you buy it? Thank you

[JBM3M]

congrats on the new truck. All RV's are made to be as light as possible and some strength/quality suffers. You just need to take care of it. I don't take my 5er down bumpy dirt roads. It pretty much stays on pavement until we pull into some place. Stuff will break, stuff will need fixing, stuff will need modifications. Mine is 2018 because I try not to buy new RV's and not suffer the drive off the lot loss of $$. I have done well, had RV's off and on since the 80's. Over the years they have gotten lighter and less structurally rigid. Buying a used one if you can get it checked out can be profitable, our current RV is selling for what we paid for ours 2 years ago. The most trouble we have had with this one is the heater. Have had to replace the control board and the sail switch in different settings. I suggest you have an electric room heater or one of the built in fireplaces for emergency heat. I am glad you listened to the experts here on the forum about the Tundra. My brother-in-law and sister complain about towing with theirs. Enjoy the RV and truck

[tallen]

Congrats on that nice new truck Mike and the camper your going to get!!!

I bought my 2022 NEW half ton Cougar 24RDS at the end of 2022. There are things I don't care for about it and things I love about it. I loved to work with my hands and fix things and never afraid to tackle an issue. I might ask a ton of questions, but still will dive right in. Over all I got what I researched and studied for months. I even was the last one out of the dealership the day I bought it. I think it took me over 4 hrs to go over that camper. At one point the guy showing me everything, just point blanked said, "you know what your looking for and know what you want, so I am going to go sit over here and you just hollower when you got something you want to ask." One by one everyone left but the me and the person with me and the person I had to sign the paperwork with.

Just know what your buying and understand just like everyone else has said on here and you will be happy too.

Now if I had all the money i needed in wish. hehehe I would have to admit, that I would be looking at me one of them Brinkley. , yeah I said it... but I love my Cougar and the other one will be for the far far future, maybe. Congrats again and good luck.

[Roper46]

Lots of good advice offered here. I would also like to add when you purchase your new RV take your time. Before you sign the papers do a slow and thorough PDI (predelivery inspection). You can also do a search on this forum for PDI and print it to use. Ensure any issues are corrected BEFORE you sign and drive off the property.

Once you sign the papers and take the unit home, you will fall at the end of the line of other owners trying to get in for service. Good luck and enjoy your new truck and RV.

[Canonman]

The real scoop is that when you buy your Cougar you will be required to sign a "purchase contract" basically waiving all rights to making yourself whole if the new RV turns out to be a lemon. Take a minute to listen to this attorney dissect the purchase contract and what is really in it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=you+...lhTNS_xn8,st:0

That's why I recommend hiring an RV inspector to thoroughly go over the new RV BEFORE you sign any contract. I wish we had.
Even though Cougar is a good product and Keystone a long standing company, each unit that comes off the line can have issues. Those issues may/will be different from unit to unit. Remember, they are built by people, not robots like the automobile industry. Here is link to an RV inspector that discusses the benefits of having a professional RV inspection done before you sign.
https://rvinspectionandcare.com/

Finally, have a look at Rigor RV Repair website. Good, unfiltered, information about the build quality differences not just between manufacturers, but also between models from the same manufacturer. I found this really informative.
https://undercoverrvshopper.com/

Hope this helps. More information can only help with your decision.

[GlasNav]

So so many questions, are you sure you just aren't trolling this forum for information for an article you're writing?
Went from truck to now questioning whether to purchase what you supposedly bought the truck for, starting to sound more like a fishing expedition.

John: just doesn't feel right!!!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by jasin1

I’d say the majority of rvs built are reliable and mostly “major” problem free….Almost all of them will have minor issues that need to be sorted out…It all depends on what kind of attitude you have dealing with it…I bought new in 2020 and decided i wouldn’t take my unit to the dealer for any warranty work that i could fix myself. I don’t want my rig sitting for months on a dealers lot waiting to get a couple of hundred dollars worth of repairs done…Frame? Roof? or major structural problems? yep i’d take to the dealer IF they agree it’s covered under warranty…if not im fixing myself or hiring my own contractors.

If your the type of person that will complain over every little issue then you probably won’t be happy owning an rv

I think if you buy used from a private individual then a rv inspector is a good idea…maybe also ask seller to have the rig state inspected. Really no way of knowing if your gonna get a good unit or a problem but do your homework and don’t be afraid to get on the roof and look everything over and try everything in the rig to make sure it works BEFORE you sign any papers or give any money.

Warranty work, from what i’ve seen on the forum, is just subjecting yourself to frustration and red tape…. there are a few success story’s of the process going smooth but it just seems random and arbitrary to me…I think i’d almost rather not have a warranty at all so i don’t get my hopes up and save with a used unit…but it would have to be a significant cost difference

Ive been thinking of used,full body paint toy hauler for the future and hopefully any issues have already been ironed out…close look at frame and tires to see if any twisting or alignment issues..good look at the roof and take a look at sidewalls particularly around the front slides for broken welds..and then spend a lot of time questioning owner and trying out all the equipment then cross my fingers and hope for the best

From earlier today Steve Lehto (Youtube )suggests buying used and getting an inspector …probably how i approach if and when my next purchase

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=jasin1;556546]From earlier today Steve Lehto suggests buying used and getting a inspector …may be how i approach my next purchase. [QUOTE]


I listened to the first 5 minutes and stopped....he doesn't know what he's talking about. As far as buying used; won't do it. I sat next to a guy in a park that had a water leak (5th wheel). Literally cut out a portion of his pass through (did I mention first 5th wheel - had owned a MH previously) to then jury rig the water lines as I watched then buttoned it back up and an unsuspecting buyer (or inspector) would have no idea what was in that wall. Seen the same under the trailer, under the coroplast etc.

Are the "good deals" out there? Absolutely. Is it a crap shoot what you're getting whether you or an RV inspector looks it over? Yep. Same goes for a new RV but you have that 12 months to work it out...but you have to USE it....and know your dealer. I don't do the "use it for 6 weeks and they keep it for 46"...don't work. I also use mine far, far more than 3-4 weeks a year (probably 30 - except this year).

It's a crap shoot either way. We all have our preferences, personal ideas on value etc. With new I KNOW what's supposed to be there; with used I have no earthly clue and don't want to figure it out when someone has "modified" it that had owned an RV for 3 weeks.

[jasin1]

[QUOTE=sourdough;556553][QUOTE=jasin1;556546]From earlier today Steve Lehto suggests buying used and getting a inspector …may be how i approach my next purchase.

I listened to the first 5 minutes and stopped....he doesn't know what he's talking about. As far as buying used; won't do it. I sat next to a guy in a park that had a water leak (5th wheel). Literally cut out a portion of his pass through (did I mention first 5th wheel - had owned a MH previously) to then jury rig the water lines as I watched then buttoned it back up and an unsuspecting buyer (or inspector) would have no idea what was in that wall. Seen the same under the trailer, under the coroplast etc.

Are the "good deals" out there? Absolutely. Is it a crap shoot what you're getting whether you or an RV inspector looks it over? Yep. Same goes for a new RV but you have that 12 months to work it out...but you have to USE it....and know your dealer. I don't do the "use it for 6 weeks and they keep it for 46"...don't work. I also use mine far, far more than 3-4 weeks a year (probably 30 - except this year).

It's a crap shoot either way. We all have our preferences, personal ideas on value etc. With new I KNOW what's supposed to be there; with used I have no earthly clue and don't want to figure it out when someone has "modified" it that had owned an RV for 3 weeks.

yes meant to post a link instead of the video…he has some good points though. and yes i agree i wouldn’t want a rv that had questionable modifications.

[wiredgeorge]

[QUOTE=sourdough;556553][QUOTE=jasin1;556546]From earlier today Steve Lehto suggests buying used and getting a inspector …may be how i approach my next purchase.

I listened to the first 5 minutes and stopped....he doesn't know what he's talking about. As far as buying used; won't do it. I sat next to a guy in a park that had a water leak (5th wheel). Literally cut out a portion of his pass through (did I mention first 5th wheel - had owned a MH previously) to then jury rig the water lines as I watched then buttoned it back up and an unsuspecting buyer (or inspector) would have no idea what was in that wall. Seen the same under the trailer, under the coroplast etc.

Are the "good deals" out there? Absolutely. Is it a crap shoot what you're getting whether you or an RV inspector looks it over? Yep. Same goes for a new RV but you have that 12 months to work it out...but you have to USE it....and know your dealer. I don't do the "use it for 6 weeks and they keep it for 46"...don't work. I also use mine far, far more than 3-4 weeks a year (probably 30 - except this year).

It's a crap shoot either way. We all have our preferences, personal ideas on value etc. With new I KNOW what's supposed to be there; with used I have no earthly clue and don't want to figure it out when someone has "modified" it that had owned an RV for 3 weeks.

Well, everybody has an opinion. I BUY USED and don't pay a bunch. I just spent over $1000 for a new refrigerator cooling unit and that is the first real money spent. Insurance company paid for my lifetime warranty roof. My camper is solidly made and the only failure items are the outside plastic stuff which have been mostly replaced for a couple bucks. My trim is falling off, my lines not leaking, my shower not leaking... really no problems. I have never had my camper sit at some CW dealer for months waiting for service. My opinion is that if you buy new, you are headed for trouble. Let someone else find/fix. We will need to disagree on this I guess. Just look at the revolving door of new owners coming to the site to complain about shoddy workmanship and super long service wait times.

[Canonman]

Do RV retailers and manufacturers "over protect" themselves from any type of legal recourse by the buyer? You bet they do!

Will hiring an RV inspector insure that 100% of any problems both obvious and hidden be found? Probably not. But, a good professional inspection will identify more issues than not doing one at all or some first time buyer trying to follow a check list not really knowing what to look for.

Will listening to an RV repair specialist talk about the issues related to RV service problems based on actual real life experience provide helpful insight to anyone willing to listen? My opinion is YES. Again, what to look for and what to avoid.

Buying and owning an RV for the first time is certainly a long learning curve. Trying to shorten that learning experience by getting as much information up front is just good common sense.