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Old 10-17-2021, 12:50 PM   #1
Toolmaan
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Electrical issue

So I have a 2015 Keystone Springdale and this past weekend we pulled it out to camp and couldn't get power to even turn lights on. Whats strange is the power tounge jack worked, and the microwave worked, when connected to shore power. No interior lights can't operate slide fridge etc. Checked the GFI and it was not tripped. Didn't really have proper tools with me did some looking around couldn't figure out anything was getting dark we hooked it back up and pulled home. Today I get to looking at it more and see I don't have 120V AC to the box inside the camper but do to the microwave breaker? This is hooked up to shore power. Start looking it over again and find there is a 50 amp circuit breaker right at the frame near there battery actually 2 of them. One of them the terminal was loose i barely tugged on it and it came right out so its broken. I'm thinking this must be it. Well its just a circuit breaker shouldn't I be able to temporarily bypass it? I unplugged shore power and just left the 12V battery connected. I attempted to bypass it and all I get is sparks and trying to weld the posts together.

So I know I need a circuit breaker but why can't I bypass it? Is there s underlying issue or is this type of circuit breaker one you can't bypass? I've ordered new circuit breakers and I plan to replace both this week. But why can't I bypass it? Anyone been here before and have any insight?

Thanks!
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:23 PM   #2
JRTJH
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The circuit breaker may have failed due to a direct short/grounded wire on the "trailer side of the circuit breaker" and when you're trying to bypass it, you're actually applying battery power directly to ground. The "circuit breaker failure" may be a direct result of a shorted wire/grounded failure of a component that caused it internals of the circuit breaker to melt....

Don't just replace the circuit breaker until you find out why "it sparks like it's grounded when I try to bypass it".....

You've got a direct short on the circuit breaker output terminal from something further downstream. Connecting the battery by bypassing the circuit breaker will further damage the wiring beyond the breaker.
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:33 PM   #3
Toolmaan
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Thank you for that information thats really what I was thinking. That means I will have to drop that belly down ugh. First i'm gonna look over the slide out area because I see that as an easy area for damage. If nothing there then drop the belly down. The last camper I had I dropped that down for some repair and it looked like a wiring disaster in there.
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:39 PM   #4
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You can take your VOM set to ohms and read that wire from the circuit breaker to ground (or frame and after you have disconnected the battery). Sounds like it will read 0 ohms or close to it. After you get access to the wiring (and if you don't see an obvious problem) you can disconnect various leads until that reading disappears. Once the problem lead is found just run it down.
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:44 PM   #5
flybouy
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Before you check the ohm reafing disconnect from shore power. The converter should be provifing 12 vdc tobcharge the battry. Your post seems a bit confusing. There are 2 electrical systems on campers. They are 12v dc and 120v ac. The 120v ac powers the converter that supplies 12v dc to the camper and charges the battery. The 120v ac also powers the microwave, the electric heating element in the water heater it it's a dual source water heater, and the electric heating element in the fridge. The 120v ac also powers the microwave , air conditioner, and the standard household outlets.

The 12v dc side powers the slides, jacks, lights, stereo, tv antenna booster, and the furnace. The 12v dc also powers the thermostat for cooling and heating, and control boards for the for the furnace, water heater, fridge, and the LED panel that indicates tank levels.
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Old 10-18-2021, 04:51 AM   #6
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The other item that will tell a lot "Whats strange is the power tounge jack worked"...


Was this with the trailer plugged into the truck? The answer will tell you the source of the 12V being consumed.
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Old 10-18-2021, 07:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
The other item that will tell a lot "Whats strange is the power tounge jack worked"...


Was this with the trailer plugged into the truck? The answer will tell you the source of the 12V being consumed.
Most trailer tongue jacks are wired directly to the trailer battery, bypassing the "trailer electrical system". So it's not surprising that the trailer tongue jack worked. The "7 wire umbilical" 12 volt power (from the tow vehicle) is wired directly to the battery + terminal (usually through a distribution box mounted on the trailer A frame) so there is a "direct connection" both from the tow vehicle umbilical to the jack and from the battery to the jack.
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Old 10-19-2021, 03:20 AM   #8
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I assumed that is how they were wired. I know when I have a dead battery (left in and sucked dry at the dealer waiting for service)....I first "panicked" and my heart sunk, then I plugged it in and all is good. My point in adding this was if there is some low voltage/battery contributing to it, this would change the second he plugged the umbilical cord into the truck.

Would be interested in the cause/fix for sure!
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxnbbl View Post
I assumed that is how they were wired. I know when I have a dead battery (left in and sucked dry at the dealer waiting for service)....I first "panicked" and my heart sunk, then I plugged it in and all is good. My point in adding this was if there is some low voltage/battery contributing to it, this would change the second he plugged the umbilical cord into the truck.

Would be interested in the cause/fix for sure!
Not exactly "all is good". Once a lead acid battery is "run flat" it permanently damages the battery by reducing its capacity to take a charge. Repeated total discharge events can damage a battery beyond usefulness. If the plates inside the battery touch and short out then plugging in to the truck or shore power can damage the charging device as well.

I point this out because I don’t want someone to think they can just let the battery totally discharge and "all will be well" if they just plud it in.
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Old 10-20-2021, 04:02 AM   #10
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True...and if I was going to own the trailer I would have ripped them a new one for not disconnecting/turning off the disconnect (at least). I assume they enabled the disconnect to test one of the problems.


In my case, I was hooking the trailer up to bring home to 'take off' various accessories and returning for my new trailer as I had made a deal to trade in it had been sitting there weeks for service. The only good take on the situation was a realization of how the tongue jack was wired.
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