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07-18-2020, 05:41 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Cross Country Trip - Axle/Suspension Failure
We were on the final 2 hour leg of our trip from Arizona to Ohio when we had a blowout on the passenger rear tire on our 6 month old 2020 Cougar 'half ton' 29RLKWE. After waiting on a tire change for a few hours from Good Sam and getting nowhere, I called our insurer GEICO and received help in under an hour. We then headed on down the road and made it another 50 miles when the same tire blew. Now we were in trouble with no spare. I tried to get a tow from both GS and GEICO but no one had the proper equipment available to tow us. GS suggested sending out a mechanic to assist. While waiting on him I found that the clearance between the top of the tire and the wheel well was about 1.5", which I felt was really low. I also noticed rub marks on the top of the well, in addition to the damage in the well that was caused by the two blowouts. It was apparent the tires on that side were bouncing against the wheel well. The mechanic arrived and believed there was an issue with the leaf springs. He went to purchase a new tire and have it mounted and also purchased a couple of cheapo helper springs to mount on top of the existing leafs. After returning and installing the tire and springs - and charging us over $700!, we turned around and backtracked about 30 miles at slow speed to the nearest Camping World (where we purchased from). Although the mechanic felt I was good to go on, we figured it was safer to have CW check it out as this could be a warranty claim.
I had called CW during one of our waits and they were able to schedule us for 9am the next morning. We arrived at 11pm and 'camped' the night in the parking lot. Finally, at 2pm the next day we learned that both axles were bent and needed replacement as well as all the leaf springs. CW is also providing 5 new tires. Working with Keystone and Lippert, CW was able to get the delivery of the axles and other components expedited and they should be here Monday. With luck, we'll be able to head back home to AZ on Wednesday, which was our scheduled leave date. There was also damage done to one of the side panels, as well as the insulation material on the underside of the coach. This will wait for service until we get home. I sure don't want to have to try and reschedule the stops I reserved for the return trip. We are in a hotel now, which I believe we will be reimbursed for through our GEICO policy.
Not sure how this much damage could have occurred. Our travel was essentially all via interstate at speeds no greater than 70mph. While many interstates certainly aren't in the best of condition, I hit no huge chuckholes, craters etc. Hoping this was a one shot freak incident and not something that will happen again due to a design issue (I am curious to see what the wheel well clearance is after the new components are in place). I do know I am going to be concerned for quite a while every time I hit a bump!
One lesson learned is that I need to be more self sufficient. I have a lot of basic tools and a compressor, but I really need to add a jack in the mix. I sure don't want to wait 3+ hours for a simple tire change again.
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07-18-2020, 06:37 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 135
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Wow! You seem to be taking this all in stride and I commend you for it! Good luck with the rest of your travels!
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07-18-2020, 01:26 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 503
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Wow, that really sucks but it sounds like Camping World has stepped up. I hope the final outcome is good.
Which CW location?
__________________
2018 Cougar 26RBS
2016 Chevrolet 3500DRW D/A
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07-18-2020, 01:39 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markcee
We were on the final 2 hour leg of our trip from Arizona to Ohio when we had a blowout on the passenger rear tire on our 6 month old 2020 Cougar 'half ton' 29RLKWE. After waiting on a tire change for a few hours from Good Sam and getting nowhere, I called our insurer GEICO and received help in under an hour. We then headed on down the road and made it another 50 miles when the same tire blew. Now we were in trouble with no spare. I tried to get a tow from both GS and GEICO but no one had the proper equipment available to tow us. GS suggested sending out a mechanic to assist. While waiting on him I found that the clearance between the top of the tire and the wheel well was about 1.5", which I felt was really low. I also noticed rub marks on the top of the well, in addition to the damage in the well that was caused by the two blowouts. It was apparent the tires on that side were bouncing against the wheel well. The mechanic arrived and believed there was an issue with the leaf springs. He went to purchase a new tire and have it mounted and also purchased a couple of cheapo helper springs to mount on top of the existing leafs. After returning and installing the tire and springs - and charging us over $700!, we turned around and backtracked about 30 miles at slow speed to the nearest Camping World (where we purchased from). Although the mechanic felt I was good to go on, we figured it was safer to have CW check it out as this could be a warranty claim.
I had called CW during one of our waits and they were able to schedule us for 9am the next morning. We arrived at 11pm and 'camped' the night in the parking lot. Finally, at 2pm the next day we learned that both axles were bent and needed replacement as well as all the leaf springs. CW is also providing 5 new tires. Working with Keystone and Lippert, CW was able to get the delivery of the axles and other components expedited and they should be here Monday. With luck, we'll be able to head back home to AZ on Wednesday, which was our scheduled leave date. There was also damage done to one of the side panels, as well as the insulation material on the underside of the coach. This will wait for service until we get home. I sure don't want to have to try and reschedule the stops I reserved for the return trip. We are in a hotel now, which I believe we will be reimbursed for through our GEICO policy.
Not sure how this much damage could have occurred. Our travel was essentially all via interstate at speeds no greater than 70mph. While many interstates certainly aren't in the best of condition, I hit no huge chuckholes, craters etc. Hoping this was a one shot freak incident and not something that will happen again due to a design issue (I am curious to see what the wheel well clearance is after the new components are in place). I do know I am going to be concerned for quite a while every time I hit a bump!
One lesson learned is that I need to be more self sufficient. I have a lot of basic tools and a compressor, but I really need to add a jack in the mix. I sure don't want to wait 3+ hours for a simple tire change again.
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For tire repairs you could look at the Andersen Rapid Jack. I had a product called a TrailerAid but it didn't get the tire high enough without blocking it up. I then added the Rapid Jack but never had to use it. I also carry 2 8 ton bottle jacks and wood blocks. The 8 ton is a little short so I'll probably replace with heavier, taller bottle jacks.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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07-18-2020, 05:01 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Akron location. A bit tough to get in contact with a service advisor (‘we’ll have one call you back’), and the regular desk staff weren’t very interested in the fact I was 2K miles from home (‘I guess you’ll have to come back for your trailer when repairs are done’) However, once I talked to the service manager and explained the situation he stepped up big time and made things happen. I know CW doesn’t have the greatest rep, but so far they have really helped us out.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-18-2020, 05:51 PM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
For tire repairs you could look at the Andersen Rapid Jack. I had a product called a TrailerAid but it didn't get the tire high enough without blocking it up. I then added the Rapid Jack but never had to use it. I also carry 2 8 ton bottle jacks and wood blocks. The 8 ton is a little short so I'll probably replace with heavier, taller bottle jacks.
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When I bought my Trailer Aid they had just introduced the Trailer Aid Plus which was the original with a layer of rubber on the cradle that's about 1 1/2" thick. It works on my trailer but I still carry a 10 ton hyd bottle jack and a few boards.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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07-19-2020, 02:44 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 452
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My 25RES cougar had the same issue, 1 1/2" of space between tire and frame and scrape marks on the Darco plastic.
Dealer sent pics to Keystone and the ordered 2 new axles and hubs/brakes. That fixed it, have about 2 1/2" and the camper sits higher and seems to have a stiffer ride, plus they came with forward adjusting brakes.
The funny thing, these new Dexter axles are rated the same as the original 4400 rated ones.
Ron W.
On edit, the new Dexter axles have 4 leads the original had 3. Both rated 4400lbs
__________________
2019 Cougar 25RLS
03 Dodge 2500 Cummins
Disc brakes
700 watts solar
2000 watt inverter
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07-19-2020, 07:01 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markcee
We were on the final 2 hour leg of our trip from Arizona to Ohio when we had a blowout on the passenger rear tire on our 6 month old 2020 Cougar 'half ton' 29RLKWE. After waiting on a tire change for a few hours from Good Sam and getting nowhere, I called our insurer GEICO and received help in under an hour. We then headed on down the road and made it another 50 miles when the same tire blew. Now we were in trouble with no spare. I tried to get a tow from both GS and GEICO but no one had the proper equipment available to tow us. GS suggested sending out a mechanic to assist. While waiting on him I found that the clearance between the top of the tire and the wheel well was about 1.5", which I felt was really low. I also noticed rub marks on the top of the well, in addition to the damage in the well that was caused by the two blowouts. It was apparent the tires on that side were bouncing against the wheel well. The mechanic arrived and believed there was an issue with the leaf springs. He went to purchase a new tire and have it mounted and also purchased a couple of cheapo helper springs to mount on top of the existing leafs. After returning and installing the tire and springs - and charging us over $700!, we turned around and backtracked about 30 miles at slow speed to the nearest Camping World (where we purchased from). Although the mechanic felt I was good to go on, we figured it was safer to have CW check it out as this could be a warranty claim.
I had called CW during one of our waits and they were able to schedule us for 9am the next morning. We arrived at 11pm and 'camped' the night in the parking lot. Finally, at 2pm the next day we learned that both axles were bent and needed replacement as well as all the leaf springs. CW is also providing 5 new tires. Working with Keystone and Lippert, CW was able to get the delivery of the axles and other components expedited and they should be here Monday. With luck, we'll be able to head back home to AZ on Wednesday, which was our scheduled leave date. There was also damage done to one of the side panels, as well as the insulation material on the underside of the coach. This will wait for service until we get home. I sure don't want to have to try and reschedule the stops I reserved for the return trip. We are in a hotel now, which I believe we will be reimbursed for through our GEICO policy.
Not sure how this much damage could have occurred. Our travel was essentially all via interstate at speeds no greater than 70mph. While many interstates certainly aren't in the best of condition, I hit no huge chuckholes, craters etc. Hoping this was a one shot freak incident and not something that will happen again due to a design issue (I am curious to see what the wheel well clearance is after the new components are in place). I do know I am going to be concerned for quite a while every time I hit a bump!
One lesson learned is that I need to be more self sufficient. I have a lot of basic tools and a compressor, but I really need to add a jack in the mix. I sure don't want to wait 3+ hours for a simple tire change again.
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Out of curiosity, have you weighed your rig on a scale? Just wondering why the axles would be bent...
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07-19-2020, 12:27 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Was 8400 and change last time I weighed it set for camping. We travel with 1/4 tank of fresh and waste/gray no more than 1/2 full. Even though we took more clothes and food than last weigh, since our trip is longer, I actually moved about 75 lbs to the truck bed from the trailer as I upgraded from an F150 to F350 and now have the luxury to do that. GVWR on the trailer is 9500 lbs.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-19-2020, 12:59 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjsurfer
My 25RES cougar had the same issue, 1 1/2" of space between tire and frame and scrape marks on the Darco plastic.
Dealer sent pics to Keystone and the ordered 2 new axles and hubs/brakes. That fixed it, have about 2 1/2" and the camper sits higher and seems to have a stiffer ride, plus they came with forward adjusting brakes.
The funny thing, these new Dexter axles are rated the same as the original 4400 rated ones.
Ron W.
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Really anxious to see what the gap between the tire and frame is after replacement.
What do you guys think?
What should I do if they replace the axles and there is still only a 1" - 1.5" space? Is it possible that that could be normal? I've googled and haven't found any article/posting referencing 1.5" as being adequate.
As for the axle ratings, I have all my product documentation in the truck, going to dig out the Dexter info and see what I was rated at with the factory set.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-19-2020, 03:53 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,005
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The axles on my trailer have a sticker which says they are rated for 4400 lbs - so I assumed they were 4400 lb axles. But they are actually 5200 lb axles de-rated to 4400 lbs. I contacted Dexter and gave them the numbers on the sticker and they told me.
As it happens, I had already purchased replacement wheel bearings for 4400lb axles, which I can't use Oh well.
__________________
2022 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL - "Big Bertha"
2019 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD 6.6L Duramax TD, CC, 4WD, DRW - "Mr. Beefy"
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07-21-2020, 08:31 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markcee
Was 8400 and change last time I weighed it set for camping. We travel with 1/4 tank of fresh and waste/gray no more than 1/2 full. Even though we took more clothes and food than last weigh, since our trip is longer, I actually moved about 75 lbs to the truck bed from the trailer as I upgraded from an F150 to F350 and now have the luxury to do that. GVWR on the trailer is 9500 lbs.
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Was that 8400 just for the trailer axles? Or does it include hitch weight also. From experience, our rigs have a tendency to gain weight over time. Also from experience (4 broken leaf springs), the first suspect in suspension component failure is overloading. I'm surprised a dealer would even work on your rig without having a current weight. Do you know if CW weighed your rig before working on it? If you don't have current weights (including both hitch and axle weights), you can only "guess" about the adequacy of any fix. JMHO.
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07-22-2020, 02:44 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 452
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Markcee, do have the axle part numbers from the new axles?
I'd liken to compare them with the new Dexter axles they replaced on my camper.
Thanks
Ron W.
__________________
2019 Cougar 25RLS
03 Dodge 2500 Cummins
Disc brakes
700 watts solar
2000 watt inverter
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07-22-2020, 05:11 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Florissant
Posts: 701
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Is it possible that someone flipped the axles to give a lower ground clearance. This would be the reverse to what some owners of smaller campers do to gain clearance.
__________________
Skids
2019 Bullet 248RKS
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07-22-2020, 03:09 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisB
Was that 8400 just for the trailer axles? Or does it include hitch weight also. From experience, our rigs have a tendency to gain weight over time. Also from experience (4 broken leaf springs), the first suspect in suspension component failure is overloading. I'm surprised a dealer would even work on your rig without having a current weight. Do you know if CW weighed your rig before working on it? If you don't have current weights (including both hitch and axle weights), you can only "guess" about the adequacy of any fix. JMHO.
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Thanks for you input. I don't have the scale tickets with me but here is a worksheet I had on my computer that I completed when I CAT scaled the rig with my F150 in March. The only additions to this load would be more food and clothing. We don't take along any heavy 'toys' and such. I may have misspoke with regards to the leaf springs, they are not broken...the backyard mechanic type that Good Sam sent out stated he felt the arc on them was a bit less than he'd expect. I am not overly confident in his diagnosis. In talking to Camping World since drop off, I do not believe they are actually replacing them, just the axles. Will know for sure tomorrow as I got word today it's ready for pick up.
I'm not sure if CW weighed it or not. I can tell you I was contacted by a rep from the axle company, a rep from Keystone and I spoke directly to the local CW service manager and not one of them had any questions with regard to the weight of the trailer. I am anxious to hear what they have to say tomorrow.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-22-2020, 03:10 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skids
Is it possible that someone flipped the axles to give a lower ground clearance. This would be the reverse to what some owners of smaller campers do to gain clearance.
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No...It's only 6 months old and I am the original owner.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-22-2020, 03:11 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjsurfer
Markcee, do have the axle part numbers from the new axles?
I'd liken to compare them with the new Dexter axles they replaced on my camper.
Thanks
Ron W.
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Ron...picking it up in the a.m. I will get back to you with the codes.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-23-2020, 04:11 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjsurfer
Markcee, do have the axle part numbers from the new axles?
I'd liken to compare them with the new Dexter axles they replaced on my camper.
Thanks
Ron W.
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Ron,
Attached is a pic of the sticker from the new axles.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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07-23-2020, 04:58 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
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Those are 4400# axles. Based on your "prior" weights, you are at 93% of new axle load (8160/8800) and 97% of GVWR (9180/9500). The weights on your worksheet were only good the day you measured them. When you hook up your WD hitch, you are going to shift some hitch weight onto your trailer axles. If you also add 50% of your liquid tank capacity (post #9) plus some "extra" groceries and clothes (post #15), you could very easily be overloaded again on your new axles.
I'm not trying to get on your case, Mark. My sense is that you think you are not close on weight - I think you are very close. You won't know for sure until you take your rig across the scales. This is a really big trailer (33') built on a light weight chassis ("1/2 ton tow-able"). You really need to stay on a weight budget.
When you get your weights, I'd check in again on the forum. I think your worksheet may have some errors (e.g. it takes GVWR minus axle weights to get "remaining capacity" and completely ignores hitch weight). I'm not an expert on WD hitches, but there are plenty of folks who can answer your questions here.
Congratulations on getting your new axles! Did they also replace the leaf springs? Any difference in ride height? You can monitor this now and watch for changes in the future. Nice work!
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07-23-2020, 05:58 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisB
Those are 4400# axles. Based on your "prior" weights, you are at 93% of new axle load (8160/8800) and 97% of GVWR (9180/9500). The weights on your worksheet were only good the day you measured them. When you hook up your WD hitch, you are going to shift some hitch weight onto your trailer axles. If you also add 50% of your liquid tank capacity (post #9) plus some "extra" groceries and clothes (post #15), you could very easily be overloaded again on your new axles.
I'm not trying to get on your case, Mark. My sense is that you think you are not close on weight - I think you are very close. You won't know for sure until you take your rig across the scales. This is a really big trailer (33') built on a light weight chassis ("1/2 ton tow-able"). You really need to stay on a weight budget.
When you get your weights, I'd check in again on the forum. I think your worksheet may have some errors (e.g. it takes GVWR minus axle weights to get "remaining capacity" and completely ignores hitch weight). I'm not an expert on WD hitches, but there are plenty of folks who can answer your questions here.
Congratulations on getting your new axles! Did they also replace the leaf springs? Any difference in ride height? You can monitor this now and watch for changes in the future. Nice work!
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I understand that you are providing help and not riding me about this and I really appreciate the help.
I will hit the scales again when I get home, but I am skeptical that can be an issue. I have 1700 and change of available cargo capacity based on my trailer’s sticker and there is no way I have personally loaded that much on board....even with partially full tanks. Perhaps I am not understanding things properly. For example, where are you coming up with that 9180 figure? I don’t see it on the sheet I posted. I’m pretty sure the 8160 figure I listed was raw weight of trailer as scaled, so even if the WDH transfers 200-300 lbs back, that’s still well under 9180.
Finally, I am really confused why my trailer is rated at 9500 GVWR but my axles can’t carry it?? (8800 lbs total). This to me is not like the bs tow ratings on a truck....this is the GVWR of a particular vehicle, shouldn’t the rest of the trailer be built to support the weight they say it can be?
Looking forward to more info! Thanks for the replies.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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