My Trailer is a Lemon!

[nickofosho]

We’ve had our 2019 Passport 240BHWE for a bit less than a year now. Purchased new last January. We’ve had issue after issue with it and virtually all of the problems are quality control related. From cabinet doors falling off during travel to appliance not being installed properly to appliances failing all together. We have a list of 30 items so far!

I’ve contacted Keystone and our trailer is now at an authorized Keystone dealer (the dealership where we bought the trailer) to verify all of my claims.

I’m asking Keystone to either replace the trailer or refund us our money and buy the trailer back. We are in California and the lemon law states that an accumulation of small issues can classify an RV as a lemon.

Point of all this is two questions:

1.Has anyone else had 20+ issues (big and small) on their trailer is a short amount of time (specifically 2019 models)?

2. Has anyone returned or had their trailer replaced because of problems?

Thanks all!

[sourdough]

Don't know what your issues have been, the magnitude of them and if they were actually Keystone issues or OE issues from the makers of..whatever. Have I had "20 issues"...Please. Have I fixed most of them? Yes. If your issues are like the battery issue....I figure you're out of luck. You might be more specific with the details.

[chuckster57]

I have seen lists of 30-40 items in a $300,000+ motorhome, and we addressed all of them. I may be wrong, but I believe the lemon law applies to repeated repair failures, how many times has it been in for the same issue?

While I may agree that there is quality control issues, it’s not just Keystone. Any issue with anything not BUILT by keystone, isn’t a keystone issue.

[flybouy]

As Danny's post stated more info is needed. What you consider an "issue" someone else may consider "normal workmanship" for an rv. For example, I thought the interior of our unit would have looked a lot better if the factory would have stained the ends of the wood trim where it was cut. Having owned other trailers in the past and looked at many brands & models before I know that that's how they come from the factory. So a little bit of stain on a clean rag and 20 min.of my time and "issue" solved.

Post back with more specifics and what the dealer & Keystone's plans for corrections are and I'm sure folks can relate and comment with greater substance.

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

While I may agree that there is quality control issues, it’s not just Keystone. Any issue with anything not BUILT by keystone, isn’t a keystone issue.

It is a Keystone issue. Don't let them off the hook just because they outsourced it. They select the vendors, negotiate the price, and install it in the trailers they sell.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by RWRiley

It is a Keystone issue. Don't let them off the hook just because they outsourced it. They select the vendors, negotiate the price, and install it in the trailers they sell.

Keystone acts on the customers behalf for the first year. After that the consumer has to deal with the maker of the component. Keystone is not responsible for the failure of a Dometic refer, they are only the “agent” to get it repaired during the factory warranty period. Dometic warranty is longer than that...just an example.

I will agree that it is a keystone “issue” during the initial warranty period only.

[Canonman]

I was pretty sure our Cougar was a lemon too. Our first TT was bought used and we had no issues. So, when we bought our "new" Cougar we expected the same problem/repair issues with it. Let's just say that we were most unpleasantly surprised to say the least.
We got to know our service writer, Cameron, at CW very well over the next year. They took every issue to Keystone and worked through the warranty process to fix everything on our list plus a couple of other issues they found during their inspection process.
Was it fun? NO! Did it take too long to get approvals and repairs completed? YES! Should Keystone improve their build/quality process? I sure think so.
The key is the dealer and their relationship with Keystone. How the dealer presents the issues is a big factor in getting warranty repair approvals from Keystone. My recommendation, keep the dealer on your side. Be patient and prepare for a long uphill slog. Get to know the service manager as well as the general manager of the dealership. Let them know what the problems are and that you expect their help in getting them fixed. We even got the Keystone district sales rep (met him at an RV show) involved. Be patient, but be firm. You want the problems fixed and fixed right. Remember, any repairs should have an additional warranty. Any problems and you will be back
In the end all our issues were resolved, we survived the ordeal and have had 4 years of great camping experiences with plans for next season under way.
Hope your story ends like ours.

[wiredgeorge]

I think you may want to give the dealer/Keystone a chance to address the issues you are having before claiming the trailer is a lemon. That is probably the legal requirement in California.

[JRTJH]

It all depends on the definition of "ISSUES"...

Some people expect a 100% perfect RV at delivery. (probably ain't gonna happen).

Some people are concerned if there's a "water spot on the window" and call it an "ISSUE" while some people accept that there's a small scratch on the vinyl flooring behind the sofa, but it's not visible, so it's an "ISSUE" but doesn't really matter, some people notice three of the staples used to hold a roof panel strip in place don't have putty on them (and the rest do) so it's an "ISSUE" and some people notice that 2 ceiling molding strips are completely missing and that's an "ISSUE"....

If you want us to understand what your "ISSUES" are, please compile a list for us to see what you're talking about. It helps us understand the "breadth and depth" of your "ISSUES"....

[bsmith0404]

Actually, of the 30 plus items you say you have, the three you listed, only one is a “Keystone Issue”. Cabinet doors falling off during travel......these things bounce down the road at 60+ mph, some roads better than others, screws will come loose. Get use to it and get used to checking before/after each trip. Appliance failed.....do you blame your home builder if your refrigerator goes out or do you blame the manufacturer of the refrigerator? Same concept. Appliance being installed incorrectly....ok, that one is a keystone issue, but it’s a one time quick fix from the dealer that probably should have been found and fixed during PDI. You don’t give details as to how it was incorrectly installed, so I’m only guessing.

[wiredgeorge]

Wonder how many of these issues should have been noted in a thorough PDI? Nickofosho, did you do a PDI? Just missed some of these things? They were not an issue during the PDI?

[Tatanka Ob Waci]

Welcome to the Keystone garbage family. Our next one will be a Grand Design. We've owned our 2014 384PK since 2015, purchased new and are now on our 3rd roof, have replaced black water tank, black water valve twice, all of the appliances, 2nd fireplace, etc, etc. Never again!

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Tatanka Ob Waci

Welcome to the Keystone garbage family. Our next one will be a Grand Design. We've owned our 2014 384PK since 2015, purchased new and are now on our 3rd roof, have replaced black water tank, black water valve twice, all of the appliances, 2nd fireplace, etc, etc. Never again!

There is GD and GD after Winnie bought it. They have had their problems too!

[Dave C]

We've probably had 20+ issues with our 2019 Passport. It's been to our dealer, Curtis Trailers, in Portland, OR once already and we are waiting for parts for a second visit. Many were small issues like screen door not latching. Others more major, like hot water tank not heating. Curtis Trailers has been great at getting all the issues fixed. But I agree that the quality of workmanship by Keystone is poor. Take off some of the panels on your trailer and you will see very poor workmanship. We noticed odor from the sink gray water tank and found a screw going right into a drain pipe under the stove. We've had sawdust falling out all over the place because no one cleaned up during the build. These are just a couple examples of the poor workmanship we've found. Best option in my opinion is to work with your local dealer and as long as it is under warranty, get it fixed.

[RET.LEO]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

There is GD and GD after Winnie bought it. They have had their problems too!

Yeah, but don't G.D. trailers have like a R-5000 roof and R-2000 sidewalls? LOL!!!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RET.LEO

Yeah, but don't G.D. trailers have like a R-5000 roof and R-2000 sidewalls? LOL!!!

To hear it told that's what some folks believe!!

[RET.LEO]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

There is GD and GD after Winnie bought it. They have had their problems too!

Did GD get worse after Winn. bought them?

[LBlack]

Time after time I read where a new RV/TRAILER/5th wheel is sold and the end user is not satisfied with the quality of the product. On top of that are the comments where most of the quality issues/problems or failures are repaired by the individuals and not the manufactures. So if I broke out my engineering / problem analysis cap and tried to normalize these issues into other industries I would probably use the housing industry as the benchmark.

My test case would be located in Oklahoma simply because this is where I live.

The average new home costs about $150 per square foot in the north east part of the state. For that cost I expect:
1. The cabinets to not fall apart in the first year.
2. The cabinets to ACTUALLY be attached to something on either 12/16/24 inch centers.
3. The drawers to actually move in and out and be capable of holding something larger than a D size battery.
4. I expect the central heat to be capable of pushing air to ALL rooms with enough volume to make a change in the room temperature.
5. I expect the window to NOT leak and destroy the walls of my new home
6. I expect the AC to have been wired properly
7. I expect the appliances to WORK PROPERLY
8. I expect insulation in the walls/ceiling and flooring. I further expect to have the correct insulation to meet the values as stated in either contract or sales brochure.
9. I expect the pluming, both incoming and outgoing, to be complete and tested.
10. I expect the roof to be installed correctly and not leak.
11. I expect the foundation to have been assembled correctly and be of structure qualified to hold the weight and stresses of the structure above.

However, if I make these expectations in the RV industry then people just laugh or worse. So if I just put this back into the basic cost analysis I wind up with this:

My 2018 MHC 381TH with the 4 season package and full time living options listed for $242 per square foot (list price, not what I paid) and has had deficiencies in every single expectation listed. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

I agree with whoever said this is not JUST a Keystone problem. This is a customer problem. We as customers keeping buying homes that are NOT as advertised and we remain silent when we are on the hook for solving quality or design problems.

Soap box time for the day has ended. It is only 33 degrees outside and my wife and I are cold. Guess I will spend the rest of the day trying to figure out why our expensive mobile box will not keep us comfortable

[goducks]

Originally Posted by Tatanka Ob Waci

Welcome to the Keystone garbage family. Our next one will be a Grand Design. We've owned our 2014 384PK since 2015, purchased new and are now on our 3rd roof, have replaced black water tank, black water valve twice, all of the appliances, 2nd fireplace, etc, etc. Never again!

Don't expect perfection form GD either. They ALL have problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIW8WSjVEcE

[flybouy]

The "average home" is not built to be towed down a pot holed road at 75 m.p.h . so I don't see that as an "apples to apples" comparison.