Question

[Harreec]

There was a tire recall on our Cougar 28SGS
When looking in to the recall we had E rated tires on the axles and a D rated tire as a spare, the tire loading information sticker was for D rated tires.
Keystone sent out a replacement E rated tire for the spare and a new loading sticker for E rated tires.
Tire pessure for D tires is 65lbs, tire pressure for E tires is 80 lbs.
While looking at the stickers today I realized that in the time we owned the 5th wheel the tires were 15 lbs under inflated. We traveled over 1000 miles with these tires under inflated. Would you be suspicious of invisible tire damage?
Keystone say, take pictures but that would only show if there were external tread damage.
I am just thankful we didn't have blowouts from over heating!
Opinions please

[JRTJH]

Tread separation can only be seen when the tire is demounted from the wheel and inspected. If it were me, I'd push for replacement tires from Keystone since they installed tires and sticker that didn't match. Here's a picture of what I found on my tires when I replaced them last year.

Your tires may be perfectly fine, but then again maybe not. If Keystone will replace them, why take the added risk?

[sourdough]

I would contact them and tell them that the recall involves far more than replacing the wrong spare and sending updated stickers. Tell them you have been using your trailer and running the tires at the pressure indicated on the original sticker.....but that is 15 lbs. underinflated. All those miles (thousandS?) will have definitely deteriorated the tires and shortened their life. Not only that, it is a miracle you didn't have a blowout causing extensive damage to your trailer, or worse, a catastrophic accident. The only acceptable remedy would be to replace the other 4 tires - tell them to send Maxxis or Carlisle HDs. Explain the situation and try to work with them.

If they refuse to replace the tires tell them you need that in writing - refusal by them means they're telling you the tires are OK. Advise that you will use that in court in the event of an accident. If they refuse, they then are telling you that they believe they are bad as well, just refusing to replace their mistake.

These are just my thoughts. Others will probably differ but they made a mistake and need to fix it.....and one spare tire, in my mind, isn't right.

[rhagfo]

Not really under inflated, the 5er in question has a GVWR of 10,000# so even if the tires were LT "E" rated with a 3,042# rating each, 5er likely has about 8,000# on the tires at max GVWR, so 65 psi would likely be correct.

ST's have a higher "Stated" carrying capacity, I believe about 3,400# each so I don't see the tire as being under inflated.
Other than the fact that ST manufactures state to run at max air, I would run those at about 65 to 70 for better road contact and braking.

I have LT 235/85-16E on our 12,360# GVWR 5er, figure never over 10,000# on the axles so 12,168# worth of LT tires will do better than ST's.

[JRTJH]

It has been my experience that on the load decal, Keystone always lists the maximum pressure for the tire size that is installed on the trailer. I've never seen them install an E rated tire with a D or C rated pressure (from the tire load charts) listed on the load decal.

Now, the "rub" comes from which tires were installed on the trailer. Some tire manufacturers such as Maxxis state in their ST tire manual that air pressure can be adjusted to the load actually on the tire. Carlisle, on the other hand, in their ST tire manual states that the tire should ALWAYS be operated at the maximum pressure listed on the tire sidewall (with no adjustment for actual load).

So, with the OP's trailer, depending on which tire brand is installed on his trailer, running LRE tires (80PSI rating) per a trailer decal which instructs the owner to operate the tires at LRD rating (65PSI) could be (depending on the tire brand) a direct violation of the tire manufacturer's requirements.

Without knowing what brand tires are installed, he may or may not have towed underinflated based on Keystone's decal and the tire manufacturer's requirements.

At any rate, with the known problems with "substandard Chinese tire brands, and if Keystone installed the wrong tires and/or load decal, I'd want to "start fresh" with all new equipment rather than risk a problem after the trailer warranty has expired. Heaven knows Keystone will wash their hands of any responsibility at the end of the 12th month.....

[Desert185]

If Keystone did replace the tires I doubt they would replace them with Carlisle or Maxxis. The best the OP could hope for is to get cash for the OEM china bombs and pay the difference for C's or M's.

What brand is the replacement spare? That will probably reveal the brand Keystone is passing out.

Personally, I wouldn't push my luck any further with those tires, while waiting for a decision from Keystone.

Not to point fingers, but I always look at the tire sidewalls, because you never know what was installed. If they were 80 psi and the sticker said 65 psi, then that would be a bonus and I would run them at 80 psi. I also get used to checking the tire's load rating vs the GW of the vehicle. Trust, but verify as someone once said. Always do the math.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Desert185

If Keystone did replace the tires I doubt they would replace them with Carlisle or Maxxis. The best the OP could hope for is to get cash for the OEM china bombs and pay the difference for C's or M's.

What brand is the replacement spare? That will probably reveal the brand Keystone is passing out.

Personally, I wouldn't push my luck any further with those tires, while waiting for a decision from Keystone.

Not to point fingers, but I always look at the tire sidewalls, because you never know what was installed. If they were 80 psi and the sticker said 65 psi, then that would be a bonus and I would run them at 80 psi. I also get used to checking the tire's load rating vs the GW of the vehicle. Trust, but verify as someone once said. Always do the math.

I agree that they may balk at Carlisle or Maxxis. The reason I suggested that is because I'm now seeing Maxxis/Sailun etc. on new trailers. Keystone HAS to know the terrible press they get from the poor tires, and low load ratings, they put on their trailers and I'm seeing changes. I was thinking that if pressed, Keystone might actually step up for an individual owner on the "sly" so the speak - especially after they messed up and put the owners at risk (depending on how you play it).

[Harreec]

Keystones initial response is that the tire pressure is marked on the tire therefore any claim is denied.
Obviously to them the Federal tire loading label is of no value.
I am not done yet !

[sourdough]

Interesting.

I don't have my trailer here to compare but;

The side of my truck tire, when addressing tire pressure says to consult the "vehicle and tire manufacturers manuals and the placard on the vehicle". Nothing about consulting the label for max pressure on the tire. I don't know that the trailer tire has that same label but I would think it might.

Another issue is Keystone's attitude that the placard on the trailer is of little or no value, ie; irrelevant. A complaint (or threat of one) to the NHTSA might jog them a bit. I think the NHTSA might find it perplexing that Keystone would refer owners to a label on the side of a tire that only lists max pressure and load vs the mandated placard.

Keep your documentation and let them dig their own hole - you can guide them into it.....hopefully. Good luck - you've now entered the proverbial "chess game" with Keystone.

[CWtheMan]

The published standard for under-inflation reads something like this. Whenever a tire (s) has been operated 20% below the vehicle manufacturers recommendations found on the certification label/tire placard, the tire should be inspected inside and outside for damages.

You're very close to that figure with a 100% accurate pressure gauge.

I would ask Keystone to have the inspection performed. If they decline I would report them to NHTSA for possible under-inflated tire damage. They have not corrected the recall. Why? Because the recall did not address possible tire damages.

[rhagfo]

Once again you tires were NOT under inflated!
The dry axle weight of that 5er is right at 7,000#, two of the 16" tires could carry that load at 80 psi, you have four tires. If I were you I would dump the ST tires and replace with quality LT's of the same size and run them between 65 and 70 psi and not worry about your tires any more.
Running the ST's at Max pressure with your load reduces the contact patch with the road reducing braking traction.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Once again you tires were NOT under inflated!
The dry axle weight of that 5er is right at 7,000#, two of the 16" tires could carry that load at 80 psi, you have four tires. If I were you I would dump the ST tires and replace with quality LT's of the same size and run them between 65 and 70 psi and not worry about your tires any more.
Running the ST's at Max pressure with your load reduces the contact patch with the road reducing braking traction.

One has to be careful running LT tires because the tire load capacity may not be adequate for the load they carry. ST tires of the same size generally have a higher weight capacity.

In my case, with Maxxis LRE tires inflated to 80 PSI, there is enough of a sidewall bulge and contact patch that braking traction has never been an issue.

Just sayin...

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Once again you tires were NOT under inflated!
The dry axle weight of that 5er is right at 7,000#, two of the 16" tires ...

Running the ST's at Max pressure with your load reduces the contact patch with the road reducing braking traction.

A couple of comments: First, the OP's tires are 225 75R 15 (not 16) LR E

Some ST tire manufacturers state that their tires MUST be operated at the maximum sidewall pressure. Not all tire manufacturers suggest that pressure may be adjusted based on load. Some simply state to operate their tire at the maximum. So, depending on the tire brand the OP has, he may not have the option of running his load range E tires at 65PSI, and if he does, he's voided the tire manufacturer's warranty.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

A couple of comments: First, the OP's tires are 225 75R 15 (not 16) LR E

Some ST tire manufacturers state that their tires MUST be operated at the maximum sidewall pressure. Not all tire manufacturers suggest that pressure may be adjusted based on load. Some simply state to operate their tire at the maximum. So, depending on the tire brand the OP has, he may not have the option of running his load range E tires at 65PSI, and if he does, he's voided the tire manufacturer's warranty.

My Bad!
I got this confused with another post, OP seems to be stuck with ST's.

[CWtheMan]

The OP is in a CDN Provence that has strict vehicle inspections, including RV trailers. He has to ensure that he satisfies those regulations.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

The published standard for under-inflation reads something like this. Whenever a tire (s) has been operated 20% below the vehicle manufacturers recommendations found on the certification label/tire placard, the tire should be inspected inside and outside for damages.

You're very close to that figure with a 100% accurate pressure gauge.

I would ask Keystone to have the inspection performed. If they decline I would report them to NHTSA for possible under-inflated tire damage. They have not corrected the recall. Why? Because the recall did not address possible tire damages.

You're much better off going this route to start with. You can let Keystone know that since the tires were run underinflated because of their mistake, you want/expect them to pay to have the tires dismounted to check for damage. You could also just buy new tires, have the old ones inspected after they are removed. If any damage is discovered, send the pics and bill for the new tires to Keystone.

[CWtheMan]

This thread is really about a recall action. There are procedures that will be followed.

For us, the users of something being recalled, we should determine if the recall is 100% correct, especially if the recall was initiated by the vehicle manufacturer. So, what is the reason for the recall and are all unsafe actions going to be corrected in the "fix it" actions?

Can the vehicle owner fix things and then get reimbursed for that action? Yes!

For those in a recall situation I highly recommend reading the reference provided below.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recall...andRecalls.pdf