Towing with short bed

[Elk4me]

I have a 2013 Montana Mountaineer, 375FLF. It has the MorRyde hitch. I am currently using the PullRite Slider hitch. It weighs in at 220 lbs. I cannot remove/install it without a lift or have a couple other men do it for me. I just had a back disk fusion done a week ago.
My question is:
1)Has anyone pulled with a short box (6.5ft.) without the use of a slider and not had clearance issues. I have seen all the horror stories and pictures of the damage to the TV and RV's.
2)I am considering either changing to the PullRite Superlite, Andersen or similar as well as the Automated Safety Hitch. Has anyone used these hitches without clearance issues except the Automated Safety Hitch which totally eleminates clearance issues and looks very tempting.
Please keep all comments relevant to the question.

[CWSWine]

I have a short bed 6.5 foot and never had a slider and never had a problem. I can NOT turn a full 90 degrees but can get between 70 and 80 degrees. I look at it as one more thing to watch when backing up - I could tree, picnic table, power pole, and etc that I have to watch for and the hitting of the cab is just one more thing.

I use my son and grandson to pull mine since I had back surgery also.

[dcg9381]

In the SuperGlide manual, it specifies measurements that you can use to determine if you need a slider or not:
http://www.pullrite.com/sites/defaul...s%20Manual.pdf

I'm not sure that these take into account modern rounded-nose or angled-nose 5th wheels. I think most short beds won't work with Keystone - I think I'd be searching for someone with your make/model 5th wheel. I know that Grand Design will work in some cases.

Like you, I've got the pullrite. I put it in myself (last night) using an engine hoist. Still not terribly easy.

[buckeyebobhockingcamper]

i have a curt 25k non slider,used it 8 years .it comes apart in 2 pieces by pulling 2 pins.that way i can get it out of truck once i arrive at my 3 month site in keys.i have a 2500 chevy 6.6 bed and my montana hc fifthwheel works fine

[notanlines]

"Please keep all comments relevant to the question." You couldn't put it in before, what is the difference now?

[66joej]

Originally Posted by Elk4me

I have a 2013 Montana Mountaineer, 375FLF. It has the MorRyde hitch. I am currently using the PullRite Slider hitch. It weighs in at 220 lbs. I cannot remove/install it without a lift or have a couple other men do it for me. I just had a back disk fusion done a week ago.
My question is:
1)Has anyone pulled with a short box (6.5ft.) without the use of a slider and not had clearance issues. I have seen all the horror stories and pictures of the damage to the TV and RV's.
2)I am considering either changing to the PullRite Superlite, Andersen or similar as well as the Automated Safety Hitch. Has anyone used these hitches without clearance issues except the Automated Safety Hitch which totally eleminates clearance issues and looks very tempting.
Please keep all comments relevant to the question.

We pulled a 318SAB Cougar 5ver with a 2011 f250 with 6.5' box with a Curt non slider with no problems. Just can't do 90 degrees. Trailer had the nose cutouts.

[Elk4me]

Originally Posted by notanlines

"Please keep all comments relevant to the question." You couldn't put it in before, what is the difference now?

That is my point, I can't install/remove my hitch now. I am researching other lighter hitches. I have a fairly well rounded nose on my 5ver and the MorRyde hitch sticks out quite a ways. I was just asking others on whether they had pulled without the sliders. Some have offsets to the rear like the Andersen.

[Desert185]

I have a friend with a SB Ford 350 who pulls with an Andersen hitch. He has a gooseneck so he can offset the Anderson aft a few inches (with the blessing of Andersen). He still can't go 90, but its close.

The aluminum Andersen only weighs 35#. My steel gooseneck version is 75# and is rated for 24,000#.

[Sulphur1]

We have a 2011 Chev 6.6 Short box with Reece Hitch.
I had the 2011 Cougar 299RKS with a 5th Airborne pin box over 90 degrees to get it into a workshop and it just touched the Chevy rear glass when getting it out. (Phew!).
I guess it depends a lot on what & where the pin box & hitch is mounted. The hitch / pin is over the centre of the rear axle.
Cheers
Jon

[canesfan]

You're going to get opinions all over the map on this question. What it really comes down to is the position of your king pin in relation to the front cap, the roundness/deepenss of your front cap "cutouts", and the position of your hitch. On my current rig the kingpin is tucked back under at least 6-8" from the front edge of the cap, which puts the nose of the 5er closer to the back window. On my last rig the kingpin was sticking out in front of the cap by an inch or two, putting the nose farther back from the rear window. I have to go about 75-80 degrees to back into my driveway and wouldn't want to attempt it without my slider, but to each their own. I like the piece of mind of not having one more thing to worry about. Only you, and maybe a REALLY good dealer can make up your mind. I have an older superglide (approx 300 lbs) and it doesn't come out of the truck. Period. but I understand your situation. Good luck.

[Banjopicks]

Wouldn't this be a simple measurement that you could do? Measure from the center of your hitch pin to the longest part of the nose and then again from the center of the hitch in the truck to the cab.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Banjopicks

Wouldn't this be a simple measurement that you could do? Measure from the center of your hitch pin to the longest part of the nose and then again from the center of the hitch in the truck to the cab.

If the measurement only had to account for two dimensions, length and width AND if the trailer front was 90 degrees vertical and IF it were square with no "sculpted corners or obtuse cut-away corners AND if the truck cab rear surface was also vertical and the same distance from the connecting pivot point on the hitch, AND if the truck/trailer were always level and horizontal, then yup, it would be a simple matter of just measuring the trailer width, dividing by 2 and using that measurement from the hitch to the truck cab.

But, each of those "complicating factors" comes into play, often at the most "inopportune of times"...

Realistically, it's always a choice the owner has to make and each of us feels quite differently about whether we need, want, prefer or just "don't give a dam*n" whether we have a sliding hitch or not. Honestly, anyone who has ever towed a "bumper pull trailer" knows that the very best you can ever hope to achieve is about 45 degrees of angle when backing. With any fifth wheel, you can get at least that much, usually it's closer to 70 degrees, often more and seldom (if ever) is it ever necessary to have a sliding hitch. Some people feel it's "insurance" some feel it's easier to "slide it back and not worry" some paid the extra price and have never used it and some refuse to even consider a sliding hitch. Then there's the owner who refuses to put his truck in reverse until he has unlocked his sliding hitch and moved it back..... It's a matter of "To each his own" ...

When you account for the stress backing at excessive angles puts on the tires, wheels, hubs, bearings, spindles, axles, springs, spring hangers/bushings and the chassis, I'd have to ask the question: "Is it worth it to push those kinds of angles or is it "better all around" to pull forward and "jockey" the trailer without subjecting it to all that extra stress?" When reading comments on this forum about tire failure, bearing issues, brake problems and abnormal tire wear, I often find myself wondering about the "parking and backing practices of the person who's making the comments.

Depending on your answers and your opinions, a sliding hitch may be something you'd never use or it could be something you'd use every time you get ready to put your tow vehicle into reverse.

But, after all that, in answer to your comment about simply measuring and dividing by 2: No, it's not quite that simple.

[xcntrk]

Totally depends on the trailer cap. As mentioned, those caps with the high clearance and/or turning radius don't require the sliders. Unfortunately, since you're posting here on the Keystone forums, their only product with those features is the newer Cougar line with mid-profile cap. The rest of the "big" Keystone 5'ers all have full profile caps which typically require slider hitches.

[JRTJH]

Checking the Keystone website, Your statement that Cougar is the only Keystone product with "cut-away front cap corners" is not completely accurate.

The Sprinter, Laredo SuperLite, Laredo, Avalanche, Fuzion, Raptor, Montana, Montana High Country and Alpine all list the same feature (although some call it by a different name). Additionally, the Alpine, Carbon and Impact brochures all describe the "max turn" feature as a part of their front cap design.

The only brand that doesn't specifically address the "Max turn technology" is Outback. It does look like that brand uses the same cap design as the Springdale, which does have the feature.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe Keystone currently produces any fifth wheel brand that doesn't have some form of "Max Turn" technology incorporated into the front cap design.

[notanlines]

Very few trailers made today without the cut corners and only a smaller percent of hitches are auto-sliders. Imagine that. We pull about 10k miles a year, US and Canada, and have yet to slide our hitch to the rear to get in a site.

[xcntrk]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Checking the Keystone website, Your statement that Cougar is the only Keystone product with "cut-away front cap corners" is not completely accurate.

The Sprinter, Laredo SuperLite, Laredo, Avalanche, Fuzion, Raptor, Montana, Montana High Country and Alpine all list the same feature (although some call it by a different name). Additionally, the Alpine, Carbon and Impact brochures all describe the "max turn" feature as a part of their front cap design.

The only brand that doesn't specifically address the "Max turn technology" is Outback. It does look like that brand uses the same cap design as the Springdale, which does have the feature.

I didn't say cut-away, I said mid-profile vs full profile. I have a Fuzion with the "max turn" cut aways and there's zero chance in hell it's clearing the cab of a short-bed without slider:

[JRTJH]

There are a number of ways to "skin the cat" when it comes to trailer/truck clearance. One method is a sliding hitch that moves back 14". You've chosen that method, and if it works for you, you're happy and haven't had any damage, then (for you) it's the right choice.

Other ways to enhance trailer/truck clearance include methods such as cutting away the lower corners (the top of any fifth wheel could NEVER contact the cab anyway), moving the pin box forward several inches (which essentially moves the trailer back, the same as a sliding hitch) increasing clearance. For many of us, simply not getting into a situation where the trailer has to be "jockeyed" at such extreme angles is the solution. Honestly, looking at the pictures you posted, I'd never (NEVER EVER) put my trailer in such an angle and "push the axles sideways" as you've done. I will say, if you're OK with it, go for it, but that's simply not the way I'd choose to abuse my trailer running gear.

The "mid profile vs full profile cap situation doesn't change the width of the trailer. They are all either 96", 98" or 101" wide. The "mid profile" refers to "reduced height" and the "full profile" refers to "taller height, which gives more headroom inside the trailer". So, profile isn't a factor in width of the cap.

If you consider what Keystone has done, cut away 6" of the corners on the cap and moved the pinbox forward (extended pinbox) 10", then essentially they have "incorporated a sliding hitch distance" on all their trailers. While that won't "guarantee trailer/truck clearance, it enhances backing angles sufficiently for most users.

Thinking about it, you'll have to agree that if you back your truck to a 90 degree angle, you'll then be subject to 'going just a little further" and contacting the truck bed as you "jackknife" your rig. None of us would "do that" for obvious reasons, and many of us would never even approach that 90 degrees, with or without a sliding hitch.

So, again, if it works for you, if you're happy and if you're sure your rig meets your needs, then I'd say, "keep on trucking"..... But to say, " Unfortunately, since you're posting here on the Keystone forums, their only product with those features is the newer Cougar line with mid-profile cap. The rest of the "big" Keystone 5'ers all have full profile caps which typically require slider hitches." is not accurate information. Just read any Keystone brochure and you'll see that they advertise the features you say are "missing" on every one of their product lines.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

When you account for the stress backing at excessive angles puts on the tires, wheels, hubs, bearings, spindles, axles, springs, spring hangers/bushings and the chassis, I'd have to ask the question: "Is it worth it to push those kinds of angles or is it "better all around" to pull forward and "jockey" the trailer without subjecting it to all that extra stress?" When reading comments on this forum about tire failure, bearing issues, brake problems and abnormal tire wear, I often find myself wondering about the "parking and backing practices of the person who's making the comments.

^^^^This! I've never used a slider and have towed 5ers with and without the radius front ends. An extended pin box, which is used on most if not all newer 5ers, helps. As mentioned above, I never liked cutting turns that tight due to the stress on the running gear. Additionally, nobody else has said it, so I'll go ahead and do it. The weight of that 5er is getting into dually area. If the specs I saw are correct, you're total loaded weight is probably nearing the 15k range and you're probably over 3k on the pin. With GM, a dually gives you an 8' bed and eliminates the concern of a slider. I believe Dodge is the only one with a short bed option on the mega cab. I don't know your situation, but if a new truck could be added to the equation, that would solve more potential problems than just your hitch selection/clearance.

[Desert185]

Those flimsy, OEM, 1/4" spring shackles and plastic bushings really take a beating at those tight angles. You can hear the creaking until you install a wet bolt kit with the bronze bushings and 1/2" shackles. The tire roll on those tandem axles while on asphalt indicates loads I would rather avoid, too.

[CWSWine]

I won't rule out the stress put on tires sidewalls at 90 degree angle wouldn't contribute to some of the sidewall failures.