Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Repairs & Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-30-2021, 07:55 PM   #1
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
Do I have a fridge short?

I seem to have something draining my battery. I connected a fully charged battery and the status light indicates low battery....and when I try to turn on a 12 volt light, all goes dark.

I've felt my fridge has been acting a bit weird lately and I notice when I pulled the fuse for the fridge, the red light next to it comes on. The fridge is off. Based on my understanding, that could mean I have a short on the fridge circuit?

Am I on the right track here?

This on my 2010 outback Sydney edition 29rls travel trailer.
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2021, 04:32 AM   #2
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by luverofpeanuts View Post
I seem to have something draining my battery. I connected a fully charged battery and the status light indicates low battery....and when I try to turn on a 12 volt light, all goes dark.

I've felt my fridge has been acting a bit weird lately and I notice when I pulled the fuse for the fridge, the red light next to it comes on. The fridge is off. Based on my understanding, that could mean I have a short on the fridge circuit?

Am I on the right track here?

This on my 2010 outback Sydney edition 29rls travel trailer.
How old is the battery? Have you had it load tested? If a battery has a shorted cell it will only take a " top charge". What that jeans is the charger will indicate a full charge but 30 min. or so later it will be dead.

Check all battery cables for corrosion paying close attention to the ground lug on the frame. If you do not have a battery disconnect switch on the ground side or take the battery cables off during storage the parasitic drains will drain down a full battery in a few days.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2021, 04:56 AM   #3
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
How old is the battery? Have you had it load tested? If a battery has a shorted cell it will only take a " top charge". What that jeans is the charger will indicate a full charge but 30 min. or so later it will be dead.
I had fully charged the battery, but did go buy a fresh, charged battery thinking that the battery was bad. Unfortunately, to my dismay, the same condition existed.

I recalled the last time I towed home, after a 6 hour drive, that while dropping the camper off at it's resting spot, the battery status was low. I normally check the battery status before I disconnect until the next trip.

I'm suspecting a short somewhere now; last trip, while on shore-power, things seemed normal. I'm guessing when connected to shore power or my tow vehicle, things work.. masking the fact that there is a short somewhere.

I started pulling fuses, just to observe, to see if there was anything fishy. That's when I thought it seemed kind of odd that when my fridge is fully off, as soon as I pull the fridge, the red light comes on....as if there is a load demand somewhere on that circuit. That doesn't happen on the other fuses I try; the light only comes on, if the switch is moved into the on position, for instance.

Thanks for your comments; I'll definately review the battery & chassis junction connections too, to see if those need cleaning up or repair.

-lp
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2021, 06:33 AM   #4
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
You apparently have a load of some kind on that circuit. With the refrigerator turned off, there should be no current flow through the refrigerator connections. That means, at least to me, that there is some other device also connected to that circuit. It could be a LPG detector, a separate cooling fan behind the refrigerator, or some other electric device that someone (factory, dealer or previous owner) might have "tapped into the refrigerator power line" to obtain power. We have members who routinely "fish power from a nearby 12 volt source" to power vent fans, USB ports, ammeter/voltmeter displays and lots of other "fuse loading devices" that can make that fuse light illuminate.

I'd start by disconnecting the refrigerator from the 120 VAC outlet and then disconnecting the 12 VDC input line at the terminal block on the control board in the back of the refrigerator space. With that 12VDC and 120VAC disconnected, check the fuse warning light.

If it's off, start reconnecting to determine what step illuminates the fuse light.

If the fuse light is still on, then you've got a load on that circuit that is NOT related to the refrigerator..... Start following that 12VDC wire to see "what else is hooked into that line" Somewhere along the path back to the power center fuse panel, you'll find a crimp connenctor, a twist on connector or a plug that leads to a "not the refrigerator" load....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2021, 07:14 AM   #5
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Agree with John's recommendation. I would pull that fuse then start looking for what doesn't work.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2021, 11:03 AM   #6
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
Thanks guys. I have one more weekend to get through; it appears when plugged in to shore power, I can manage, but will make time to go through the troubleshooting steps suggested ASAP.

I do notice I had an overhead 12v light fixture stop working too! <sigh> I fear this could be a long drawn out affair ;-)
__________________
--lp

2010 Outback Sydney Edition, 290RLS
F350 CC 4x4 PSD A.R.E Zseries topper
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 08:42 AM   #7
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
I finally had a chance to do some more experiments.

I did find that the LP Gas detector, very near the fridge was likely causing the load on the circuit. It is original (on my 2010 trailer), and stamped on it that it needed to be replaced by 2014. I disconnected it, and the fuse light went off. I'll replace it with a new one before storage.

So, with the fridge disconnected at the terminal block on the circuit board, and the lp gas detector out of the loop, and no fuse LED lighting up when that circuit is removed.... I still have an issue....

With the battery reading 12.7 v, it is not reading full. I was thinking 12.7 was enough to read full?

When I connect the battery, after checking the status and it showing 2/3rds at the status panel, if I turn on the 12v overhead lights, the status goes to 'zero', and no lights go on... essentially, it's like I have a dead battery. If I turn the lights back off, the status doesn't go back up to 2/3rds, unless I disconnect the battery, and connect it back again.

I'm wondering if I really have an issue with bad connections somewhere from the battery. Could that be having the effect I'm describing? I have cleaned those up early in the spring. I suspect it will be worth a try... it's easy to do at least. Maybe the little jumper blocks need replacing?

Thanks again, for letting me bounce ideas off here.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20211009_152612673.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	278.9 KB
ID:	36328   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20211009_152642196.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	216.9 KB
ID:	36329   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20211009_151806801.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	222.5 KB
ID:	36330   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20211009_151909083.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	136.0 KB
ID:	36331  
__________________
--lp

2010 Outback Sydney Edition, 290RLS
F350 CC 4x4 PSD A.R.E Zseries topper
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 09:14 AM   #8
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Let's see if I can "make some comparisons" ...

I have an accurate tire gauge that says my tire is at 65PSI, but when I thump it with my finger, it sounds more like 35PSI. I think I need to add more air.

I have a volt meter that reads 12.7VDC, but my 10+ year old "made in China" status panel says it's 2/3 charged, so I don't trust my voltmeter....

Or: My patient is talking to me as I examine him, but the "heart monitor" says he doesn't have a heartbeat, so I'm going to start CPR and call a code... (oops, the EKG leads were off his chest)....

If the battery reads 12.7 volts at the battery terminals after the battery sits for 30 minutes, disconnected from the system and passes a load test, then I'd suspect the LED's in that 10+ year old monitor might not be reporting accurate information...... I'd confirm that by pulling the panel off the wall and using my "trusted voltmeter" to measure the input voltage to the panel. If it's 12.7VDC, I'd strongly suspect the status panel....

That would be my "first steps in troubleshooting": Load test the fully charged battery and verify the voltage input to the status panel...

Granted, there is some "voltage drop" that can be measured in any DC circuit, but a voltage drop of "2/3 of total" (at 12.7 VDC, 2/3 is 8.3VDC, a "more than dead battery condition").... That kind of voltage drop is not a "DC circuit voltage drop expectation"...

I wouldn't suspect a "bad connection or bad wiring" if the voltage at the status panel actually measures the same as the battery output voltage.

If, after a reliable battery condition check, the battery is not the reason for the status indicator reading 2/3, then I'd replace/repair the status indicator...

As a quick check of that status panel, does the 3/3 LED light when on shore power? If it does, and the battery is good, it's the voltage sensor circuit in the status panel, if that 3/3 LED doesn't light, it's still the status panel that needs repair/replacement, but for a different reason (bad LED)

An "easy way to unscientifically load test the battery" is to disconnect from shore power, put the voltmeter leads on the battery, turn the thermostat to heat and 90F, and watch the voltmeter reading as the furnace fan starts... If it remains fairly constant, the battery is probably "unscientifically" load tested good...... If it doesn't remain constant (except for a momentary dip), then pull the battery and head to a local auto parts store that has a load test capability....

ADDED: Regarding the condition of the terminals on your DC mini-breakers, I'd have replaced them years ago, but that's my "aeroplane background"... If things are that rusted, I couldn't sleep at night until I fixed 'em.....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 11:24 AM   #9
Marineman
Member
 
Marineman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Moses Lake
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
ADDED: Regarding the condition of the terminals on your DC mini-breakers, I'd have replaced them years ago, but that's my "aeroplane background"... If things are that rusted, I couldn't sleep at night until I fixed 'em.....
I think you nailed it right here. As soon as an electrical current attempts to travel past those corroded terminals the resistance might be causing all of his problems.
Marineman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 01:10 PM   #10
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
The battery is new, and I'm suspecting the one I replaced wasn't actually bad either. I wasn't expecting the monitor inside to be accurate, but just found it odd how once an attempt to use power, the status went to nil.

So, my attention today was on those terminals. I went through and cleaned them up as they are, and one in particular seemed be the key after I cleaned it. The one on the right that is circled seemed to be the key. After removing, sanding, and tightening it back together, everything was stable again. When I turn lights on inside, they work, and the actually battery status remains at full.

So, it seems like another project will just be to snip and replace all the ends and also replace those little junction box thingys.

And does anyone know what those little red "junctions" are called? What do I search for to get the exact replacement if I go that route?

I'm kind of curious at why things are wired this way, and if I would be better served by changing/upgrading the way things are connected here.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions again ;-)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2021-10-10 155705.png
Views:	119
Size:	735.8 KB
ID:	36348  
__________________
--lp

2010 Outback Sydney Edition, 290RLS
F350 CC 4x4 PSD A.R.E Zseries topper
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 02:10 PM   #11
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
As John added at the bottom of his post they are 12v dc mini-breakers or search for 12v dc self resetting breakers. They come in different ampacity with 30 amp being very common. You can also get them at most autoparts stores for <$10.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 04:03 PM   #12
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
As John added at the bottom of his post they are 12v dc mini-breakers or search for 12v dc self resetting breakers. They come in different ampacity with 30 amp being very common. You can also get them at most autoparts stores for <$10.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'll have to check those out.
__________________
--lp

2010 Outback Sydney Edition, 290RLS
F350 CC 4x4 PSD A.R.E Zseries topper
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2021, 07:02 PM   #13
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Inside each of those little plastic boxes is a spring loaded set of contacts that open with excess current and close when they cool down.... I'd almost guarantee you that if the outside is corroded as badly as it is, those contacts that are carrying your electrical power are just as badly corroded or possibly even worse... Replace them, don't spend the time to try to "clean them up"... You can't disassemble the circuit breaker and expect it to go back together and function reliably.... They cost about $5-7 each. Spring for new ones at the proper ampacity rating. Toss those "rusty pieces of crap" in the trash.

If they were terminal blocks, you might get by with a wire brush and some "elbow grease"... They are not terminal blocks, but safety devices that have outlived their usefulness. Trying to salvage them is only going to get you to a campground where they'll fail and screw up your weekend. Replace them and be done with it.....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2021, 06:16 AM   #14
luverofpeanuts
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rochester
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Trying to salvage them is only going to get you to a campground where they'll fail and screw up your weekend. Replace them and be done with it.....
That's probably what I did in the spring, when I 'cleaned' them .. it didn't do much other than get me by, and not reliably... for a bit. Thanks for the info on what these little buggers are.

I'm taking your recommendations and already adding replacement parts to my shopping list so I can put the camper in storage ready to for the spring (hopefully, I can that done before the deep freeze comes).

Thanks all!
__________________
--lp

2010 Outback Sydney Edition, 290RLS
F350 CC 4x4 PSD A.R.E Zseries topper
luverofpeanuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2021, 06:48 AM   #15
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by luverofpeanuts View Post
That's probably what I did in the spring, when I 'cleaned' them .. it didn't do much other than get me by, and not reliably... for a bit. Thanks for the info on what these little buggers are.

I'm taking your recommendations and already adding replacement parts to my shopping list so I can put the camper in storage ready to for the spring (hopefully, I can that done before the deep freeze comes).

Thanks all!
Be sure and check the amperage of each and don't assume they are all the same..
Javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2021, 10:03 AM   #16
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi View Post
Be sure and check the amperage of each and don't assume they are all the same..
You're so right. In all probability, they aren't the same. I'd guess two 30 amps and one 50 amp mini breaker...

Also, pay attention to the "brass colored and the chrome colored terminals. NO, THEY AREN'T THE SAME and it does make a difference which connects to what......
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fridge

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.