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02-16-2021, 08:17 AM
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#61
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan
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Good article, but I disagree with Hopkins when he says that ST tire failure is related to overloading, not quality issues. I'd say that between stacking CONEX boxes full or "squished tires" (to get more in every shipping container) to using cheaper, low quality production standards and lowering the inspection criteria to a host of other "chinese innovations", quality issues do play a significant part in ST tire failure.
Essentially, what he's suggesting is that if we put tires made of steel on RV's, they won't leak air.... While that may be true, they're still going to rust. ST tire failure is a combination of many factors, not just overloading. Increasing the minimum load/overload reserves isn't going to "fix" the RV/ST tire problem.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-11-2021, 06:36 PM
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#62
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Halls
Posts: 219
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Got the new tires installed today. Went with the Carlisle Radial Trail HD in a 235/85R/16E. Glad we did it now. After we had the old tires off we looked for a date code. 30th week of 07. Wow, no idea how tires that old got on a 2013 fifth wheel.
Bad things seem to follow me though. When we got to the last tire and was putting air in it, we noticed it was a load range F. DTD had shipped 3 E's and 1 F. Only me right. Now I got to decide if I keep that one or contact them for a replacement. Will probably replace it but that means another trip to my local tire service center to swap it out.
__________________
Tracy and Donna
2016 Ram 2500, 6.4, 6.5 bed
2013 Keystone Laredo 329RE
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03-11-2021, 07:22 PM
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#63
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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I'd keep that LRF tire and use it as a spare and order another LRE to put on the ground. That way your spare is "heavier than the other tires" and should you have a blowout, your spare will be able to carry more than the other tire on that side.... Seems any time there's a blowout, the other tire on the same side also "blows in a few short miles". Something to do with extreme overloading on the remaining tire after a blowout....
Plus, you got it for the price of a LRE, so finally, something for nothing LOL
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-11-2021, 07:29 PM
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#64
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nankipoo
Got the new tires installed today. Went with the Carlisle Radial Trail HD in a 235/85R/16E. Glad we did it now. After we had the old tires off we looked for a date code. 30th week of 07. Wow, no idea how tires that old got on a 2013 fifth wheel.
Bad things seem to follow me though. When we got to the last tire and was putting air in it, we noticed it was a load range F. DTD had shipped 3 E's and 1 F. Only me right. Now I got to decide if I keep that one or contact them for a replacement. Will probably replace it but that means another trip to my local tire service center to swap it out.
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Use the same inflation pressure in the LRF and it will provide an identical load capacity as the LRE.
Why did you plus size your tires? There was no need to do so as the ST235/80R16 can be purchased in LRE, LRF and LRG.
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03-11-2021, 07:36 PM
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#65
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Halls
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
I'd keep that LRF tire and use it as a spare and order another LRE to put on the ground. That way your spare is "heavier than the other tires" and should you have a blowout, your spare will be able to carry more than the other tire on that side.... Seems any time there's a blowout, the other tire on the same side also "blows in a few short miles". Something to do with extreme overloading on the remaining tire after a blowout....
Plus, you got it for the price of a LRE, so finally, something for nothing LOL
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That's what the local tire store suggested too.
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03-12-2021, 03:42 AM
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#66
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Holland ( Europe)
Posts: 178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nankipoo
Got the new tires installed today. Went with the Carlisle Radial Trail HD in a 235/85R/16E. Glad we did it now. After we had the old tires off we looked for a date code. 30th week of 07. Wow, no idea how tires that old got on a 2013 fifth wheel.
Bad things seem to follow me though. When we got to the last tire and was putting air in it, we noticed it was a load range F. DTD had shipped 3 E's and 1 F. Only me right. Now I got to decide if I keep that one or contact them for a replacement. Will probably replace it but that means another trip to my local tire service center to swap it out.
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Are those new ST or LT ?
And what maxload?
Looked back and found ST 3480 lbs At 80 psi, wich is only 16% reserve, to my concusions still poor reserve.
If LT 3042 lbs AT 80 psi , wich is practically no reserve, but allowed to law on your 6000lbs axles.
To laws of nature the same reserves, and here only 3.5 loadindex-steps difference.
So F-load is available in this sise, tought it was not. But look at the " maxpressure" do they give 80 psi on E and 95 psi on F, and also what maxload on F?
All around F would be a better solution then, but this is talking afterward, you now have this.
But for laws of nature F- load would have been better.
So I looked back european tyres to see what loadindex they give for 235/85R16 also 120 Q is 3086 lbs At probably 77 psi but mayby also 80 psi.
So this sise probably also trows my detetmined system of 6LI steps higher for ST , partly in the dustpin.
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03-12-2021, 06:46 AM
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#67
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadatis
Are those new ST or LT ?
And what maxload?
Looked back and found ST 3480 lbs At 80 psi, wich is only 16% reserve, to my concusions still poor reserve.
If LT 3042 lbs AT 80 psi , wich is practically no reserve, but allowed to law on your 6000lbs axles.
To laws of nature the same reserves, and here only 3.5 loadindex-steps difference.
So F-load is available in this sise, tought it was not. But look at the " maxpressure" do they give 80 psi on E and 95 psi on F, and also what maxload on F?
All around F would be a better solution then, but this is talking afterward, you now have this.
But for laws of nature F- load would have been better.
So I looked back european tyres to see what loadindex they give for 235/85R16 also 120 Q is 3086 lbs At probably 77 psi but mayby also 80 psi.
So this sise probably also trows my detetmined system of 6LI steps higher for ST , partly in the dustpin.
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*********************************************
Here again your lack of knowledge of USA tire regulations and standards is showing.
First there is a load index system in place for Passenger and Euro Metric tires. The load index system produces different load capacities than other systems because of tire design and usage.
Second is the Load Range letter system which is linked to tire ply ratings. The Load Range letter system is the only official system that displays the load capacity of tires manufactured as LT or ST. Because the standardization of displaying individual speed letters is directly linked to the load index system, all LT & ST tires display a load index to officially display a tire’s speed letter.
The regulation that allows tire fitments to equal axle loads is strictly at the vehicle manufacturer’s discretion. Even though there are other recommendations from tire supporting industries/organizations, the FMVSS standard has not changed.
One of the rules I often try to get across to tire users is the fact that official tire sizes are linked to manufacturing. The regulations and U.S. tire manufacturer’s association standards agree on that point. Therefore, it’s a misapplication to use a ST235/85R16 LRE tire to replace a ST235/80R16 LRE; that’s unless the vehicle manufacturer has authorized options.
The proper description for tire sizes is designated size. A designated size includes the prefix (P – LT – ST) when appropriate. Euro Metric tires will not have a prefix.
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03-12-2021, 09:32 AM
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#68
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Holland ( Europe)
Posts: 178
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The regulation that allows tire fitments to equal axle loads is strictly at the vehicle manufacturer’s discretion.
Yes in Europe this is law, but for Nankipoo's 13000 GVWR minus 10% on pin is 11700 lbs on 2 axles, you need the 6000 lbs axles to use it to the max.
So whatever the rules are in America, he most likely will have close to 6000 lbs on one axle, so needs tires for that. All for rules of nature, wich also in America rule above rules and laws there.
In Europe( if its all the same as in the Netherlands) they give maximum allowed axleload and maximum technical axleload. The tyres together must be enaugh for the first, and if you want more, the RDW has to check your vehicle and aprove, and then the higher maxtech becomes the max allowed. Often maxtech is the same as max allowed axleload.
In Belgium a more strict system, there the tires are recomended in Certificate of Confirmation, and the changing tyres is only allowed to those in that COC.
Somewhat same system as in America, I make of your story.
But whatever the rules are, is not the issue here, yust my advice of what is needed .
Dont call myself for no reason " pigheaded selfdeclared tirepressure-specialist" and my story's become that long, to explain why I advice different then offical.
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03-12-2021, 11:40 AM
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#69
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Akron
Posts: 453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nankipoo
Got the new tires installed today. Went with the Carlisle Radial Trail HD in a 235/85R/16E. Glad we did it now. After we had the old tires off we looked for a date code. 30th week of 07. Wow, no idea how tires that old got on a 2013 fifth wheel.
Bad things seem to follow me though. When we got to the last tire and was putting air in it, we noticed it was a load range F. DTD had shipped 3 E's and 1 F. Only me right. Now I got to decide if I keep that one or contact them for a replacement. Will probably replace it but that means another trip to my local tire service center to swap it out.
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Good example of why everyone should have recorded the tire DOT serial and saved that info with other important papers (registration, Ins etc)
__________________
Retired Tire Design Engineer (40 years). Serve on FMCA Tech Advisory Committee. Write a blog RV Tire Safety. Read THIS post on Why Tires Fail.
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03-12-2021, 01:25 PM
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#70
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Halls
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan
Use the same inflation pressure in the LRF and it will provide an identical load capacity as the LRE.
Why did you plus size your tires? There was no need to do so as the ST235/80R16 can be purchased in LRE, LRF and LRG.
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That's the size that was all ready on it when we bought it.
Talked to DTD and told them what had happened. They were more than happy to make it right. Sold me another LRE at a price so cheap I won't post it here. I'm going to keep the LRF for a spare.
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03-12-2021, 04:35 PM
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#71
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nankipoo
Got the new tires installed today. Went with the Carlisle Radial Trail HD in a 235/85R/16E....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadatis
Are those new ST or LT ?
And what maxload? ...
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To answer jadatis' question:
Carlisle only produces ST tires in the Radial Trail HD line. There is no such tire as a Carlisle LT Radial Trail HD tire in any size.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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