Will it pull? Fuzion 379 vs Ram 3500 SWD 2022

[DennisRAM]

Hi we are about to purchase our first ToyHauler Fuzion 379 2022. Looking at the numbers I'm starting to get concerned..

Truck:
RAM 3500 SWD 8" box 2022
6.7L Diesel, 6 SPD, 68RFE
3.73 Axle Ratio, GVWR 12300 lb
Payload 4000lb, GCWR 28300
Max Trailer 20000lb

RV:
FUZION 379 2022
UVW 14520
GVWR 17000
Hitch Weight 3155

From what I've heard the hitch weight number given by manufacturers is usually more or less a base value, depending on the amount of real cargo capacity.
This unit has a relatively low cargo capacity. ~ 2400lb

I have concerns that my truck won't be able to pull me and my wife safely, when maxing out the cargo capacity.
Let's say we assume the real hitch weight is 20% over the GVWR 17000lb, that results in a hitch weight of 3400lb.
Adding a 200lb B&W hitch = 3600lb Payload...
Adding passengers 300lb = 3900lb

My concerns are: Is that a safe setup for the passengers, the Truck and overall Rig? Also we have concerns about liability and warranty. Thinking about GVWR of the Truck
e.g....

Would be easier if RV dealers would have a CAT scale

Many thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Dennis

[jasin1]

i say your in dually territory…much more stable towing platform ..others will chime in

[chuckster57]

This is going to be another looong thread. Short answer, IMHO too much trailer or not enough truck.

Take your truck to the scales with everything you’ll have in it going to the campground. Subtract that weight from your TRUCK GVWR and you’ll know how much weight you can legally put in the truck.

TH’s are notoriously pin heavy when empty, and may or may not change significantly when the garage is loaded to capacity. Pin weight is before battery, propane.

Dealer won’t have a CAT scale because they only care about the sale.

[Essvar]

It will pull it, the RFE transmission will NOT like it.



Fully loaded you will be over payload capacity.



PM me if you want more info.


EDIT: If you want to make the numbers and stay SRW, the new dodge 3500 with an HO motor and ASIN transmission will pull it well and auto leveling suspension (air bags) does have the payload capacity to cover this size trailer.

[wiredgeorge]

General rule of thumb is that 23 percent of the gross weight will be the pin weight. 3910 lbs. IF you have the camper fully loaded. Most folks believe that you need to account for an instance when the full payload of the camper is used. 3910 lbs plus hitch, plus passengers plus stuff in the truck... well over your 4000 lb. payload. Dually needed for that camper of a bit smaller toy hauler for that truck. That is not a marriage made in heaven.

[bsmith0404]

You can lighten up a lot by adding a Goosebox and getting rid of the hitch completely. That saves you 200 lbs. You’ll most likely be right around your max payload.

[sourdough]

You will be at or over your payload. As was suggested putting the Reese Goose Box on the trailer and eliminating the 5th wheel hitch would save some pounds - and still be right on the edge. That will be an added cost but in the scheme of things may not accomplish a lot for you weight/payload wise.

IMO you are in dually territory; I personally would not put a 17k gvwr trailer on a SRW truck. You are worried about safety as I am. Anytime you are skirting/bouncing around the max anything can do (max payload) you are at the edge of being safe. I like a safety cushion, not riding on the edge - I've dodged enough bullets I don't need to reload the gun.

[P & T]

Its not just pulling it, but stopping it too.

You'll have a marginal payload in the cab that is left over. If you are braver than me, you can tell your DW how to pack her bags and weigh everything if/when you are close.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Essvar

It will pull it, the RFE transmission will NOT like it.



Fully loaded you will be over payload capacity.



PM me if you want more info.


EDIT: If you want to make the numbers and stay SRW, the new dodge 3500 with an HO motor and ASIN transmission will pull it well and auto leveling suspension (air bags) does have the payload capacity to cover this size trailer.

Air bags don’t change the number printed on the federal label.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Essvar

It will pull it, the RFE transmission will NOT like it.



Fully loaded you will be over payload capacity.



PM me if you want more info.


EDIT: If you want to make the numbers and stay SRW, the new dodge 3500 with an HO motor and ASIN transmission will pull it well and auto leveling suspension (air bags) does have the payload capacity to cover this size trailer.

The HO/Aisin actually weighs about 200# more than the RFE68.
People need to learn that a big trailer requires a big truck.

[tech740]

You don't really save much weight with the goose box. I have one. I took off a pinbox that weighed about 60ish pounds and added a goosebox that weighs almost 200. I understand that the hitch and pinbox would be about 250 or so but really only cutting 50-80 pounds would be my guess.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by tech740

You don't really save much weight with the goose box. I have one. I took off a pinbox that weighed about 60ish pounds and added a goosebox that weighs almost 200. I understand that the hitch and pinbox would be about 250 or so but really only cutting 50-80 pounds would be my guess.

The Goosebox weight is added to the rv not the truck, if lighter than the original pin box you've gained that few pounds in cargo capacity in the 5er.
The Goosebox adds no weight to the bed of the truck, other than the usual pin weight percentage when hitched up, so you'd gain the weight of the standard 5th wheel hitch, in some cases several hundred pounds, to the payload of the truck.
The other plus is no hitch to deal with if needing the truck bed clear to haul other stuff.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by DennisRAM

Hi we are about to purchase our first ToyHauler Fuzion 379 2022. Looking at the numbers I'm starting to get concerned..

Truck:
RAM 3500 SWD 8" box 2022
6.7L Diesel, 6 SPD, 68RFE
3.73 Axle Ratio, GVWR 12300 lb
Payload 4000lb, GCWR 28300
Max Trailer 20000lb

RV:
FUZION 379 2022
UVW 14520
GVWR 17000
Hitch Weight 3155

From what I've heard the hitch weight number given by manufacturers is usually more or less a base value, depending on the amount of real cargo capacity.
This unit has a relatively low cargo capacity. ~ 2400lb

I have concerns that my truck won't be able to pull me and my wife safely, when maxing out the cargo capacity.
Let's say we assume the real hitch weight is 20% over the GVWR 17000lb, that results in a hitch weight of 3400lb.
Adding a 200lb B&W hitch = 3600lb Payload...
Adding passengers 300lb = 3900lb

My concerns are: Is that a safe setup for the passengers, the Truck and overall Rig? Also we have concerns about liability and warranty. Thinking about GVWR of the Truck
e.g....

Would be easier if RV dealers would have a CAT scale

Many thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Dennis

Originally Posted by chuckster57

This is going to be another looong thread. Short answer, IMHO too much trailer or not enough truck.

Take your truck to the scales with everything you’ll have in it going to the campground. Subtract that weight from your TRUCK GVWR and you’ll know how much weight you can legally put in the truck.

TH’s are notoriously pin heavy when empty, and may or may not change significantly when the garage is loaded to capacity. Pin weight is before battery, propane.

Dealer won’t have a CAT scale because they only care about the sale.

Well, if you have any toys for the garage, there is a strong possibility that you will likely have the TH over GVWR also. I will never understand building a 40' (39' 6") TH with only a 2,500# cargo capacity!

You are learning that the payload on the door sticker, is not all available for pin weight. Not knowing what you carry in your truck for camping I can't guess what you carry in the bed.
Case in point our DRW 3500 has a listed sticker payload of 5,411#, last time we scaled it it weighed 10,000#, on a GVWR of 14,000# so we used up 1,411# of payload to us, hitch, and stuff we carry.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well, if you have any toys for the garage, there is a strong possibility that you will likely have the TH over GVWR also. I will never understand building a 40' (39' 6") TH with only a 2,500# cargo capacity!

You are learning that the payload on the door sticker, is not all available for pin weight. Not knowing what you carry in your truck for camping I can't guess what you carry in the bed.
Case in point our DRW 3500 has a listed sticker payload of 5,411#, last time we scaled it it weighed 10,000#, on a GVWR of 14,000# so we used up 1,411# of payload to us, hitch, and stuff we carry.

Guess I never understood why people would put stuff in the bed of the truck when you have a big garage in the back of the 5er. I don’t have a TH and still the only thing that goes in the truck is the gen/gens if/when we take them with. If I had a TH, that wouldn’t be needed, but even if they were I’d be pulling them up the ramp instead of lifting them into the bed.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Guess I never understood why people would put stuff in the bed of the truck when you have a big garage in the back of the 5er. I don’t have a TH and still the only thing that goes in the truck is the gen/gens if/when we take them with. If I had a TH, that wouldn’t be needed, but even if they were I’d be pulling them up the ramp instead of lifting them into the bed.

I have an in bed tool box, and carry stuff in it that I want with the truck all the time. We full time and our truck is our only vehicle.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I have an in bed tool box, and carry stuff in it that I want with the truck all the time. We full time and our truck is our only vehicle.

I understand, I have a few things in the storage under the rear seat. The funny thing is that people with trucks always feel the “need” to carry stuff with them. People who don’t own a truck normally don’t have their trunk packed full of stuff. I guess that’s why we buy trucks.

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Air bags don’t change the number printed on the federal label.

They do when it is factory installed equipment. Payload increases by 1500lbs on the new dodges with auto leveling rear suspension.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I understand, I have a few things in the storage under the rear seat. The funny thing is that people with trucks always feel the “need” to carry stuff with them. People who don’t own a truck normally don’t have their trunk packed full of stuff. I guess that’s why we buy trucks.

I think it's some people's nature to "hold onto things" and others being minimalistic. I'm not a physiotherapist but I'm sure there are reasons for both extremes and I can't judge either. The difference with trucks IMO is two fold. First, more room so even though it's twice as much as a small car it doesn't appear to be that much. The second issue as I see it is the concept that "it's a truck so it won't matter".

Weight is cumulative and a little bit here and there seems insignificant until you realize just how much the total is. I know from personal experience when I shed 50+ lbs from my body. I grabbed a 50 lbs bag of ready mix in HD one day and thought " I carried this much weight around 24/7 before, what was I thinking?".

I also recall the time when we had a 30' Sea Ray boat and I told the service manager the boat was loosing power. The marina knew us well as we had boats there for decades. The SM said let's go for a ride. Idling out of the marina he asked me if this was a sudden event, is one engine running differently than the other, etc. After a short run he said to return. We tied up and he said take everything out of the boat and put it on the dock and I'll come back for a second run.

When he returned I was embarrassed at the pile on the dock. Of course on the second run the boat jumped up on plane quickly and ran much faster. The point is, with 2 daughters that then were around 10 & 14, the accumulation of "stuff" was sizeable. We had gone from a 25'L 8' beam boat with limited storage to a 30' L 10' beam boat with an aft cabin and a LOT of storage. Out of sight out of mind as they say. This is one of the reasons I advocate folks go weight their truck BEFORE they think about towing. The difference between the payload on the tire inflation placard and what's ACTUALLY available can be eye opening.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Essvar

They do when it is factory installed equipment. Payload increases by 1500lbs on the new dodges with auto leveling rear suspension.

Ok, I didn’t see that specified in your first post.

[wiredgeorge]

This thread is taking a familiar turn! Guy asked if his truck was up to carrying a very very heavy 5th wheel and it likely isn't based on his own numbers. The airbags thing is interesting but he already stated his payload and he ain't got enough.