New Cummins engine

[gearhead]

This is starting to get interesting. I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime but...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/auto...c041c10b574c8d

https://www.enbridge.com/media-cente...123722&lang=en

[wiredgeorge]

MSN article called it a 15L engine but in the article said 6,7L. Confusing. And hydrogen is a gas. How do you store hydrogen in a truck? Say you have a 40 gallon tank on your diesel. How much hydrogen will be stored in a similar space? As a gas, I am guessing there will be challenges keeping it contained. Do they expect gas stations to have hydrogen tanks for fill up? How would that work anyway?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

MSN article called it a 15L engine but in the article said 6,7L. Confusing. And hydrogen is a gas. How do you store hydrogen in a truck? Say you have a 40 gallon tank on your diesel. How much hydrogen will be stored in a similar space? As a gas, I am guessing there will be challenges keeping it contained. Do they expect gas stations to have hydrogen tanks for fill up? How would that work anyway?

Just think propane, acetylene, oxygen or any other gas that's typically sold in bulk at any welding shop, tractor supply or even at the "Blue Propane cage" at WalMart... Easy to store hydrogen, it's just "unbound water molecules"

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

MSN article called it a 15L engine but in the article said 6,7L. Confusing. And hydrogen is a gas. How do you store hydrogen in a truck? Say you have a 40 gallon tank on your diesel. How much hydrogen will be stored in a similar space? As a gas, I am guessing there will be challenges keeping it contained. Do they expect gas stations to have hydrogen tanks for fill up? How would that work anyway?

a large balloon flying just above your truck

[flybouy]

George all gasses become liquid when compressed enough. The containment issue is complicated by this just as it is with using LPG or LNG to power internal combustion engines. A gasoline or deisel fuel tank is very light as it's only holding the weight of the fuel. With combustibles that are compressed you need a pressure tank to contain it and you need a LOT more fuel to equal the btu content of the oil bases fuels.

From what I've read and understand about hydrogen as a fuel is that it's a great alternative for urban areas to reduce pollution but it takes a LOT of energy to produce it so similar to EVs the pollution is just moved away from the urban area to where the electric generating plant is located. Wind and solar simply will not cover that demand. It seems to me like nuclear power generation would solve this issue.

These type articals must be taken with a grain of salt. Currently there is a huge push towards EVs by several groups. For years utility companies have been investing in wind and solar. Why? They are investing our tax dollars via government "incentives" so they aren't risking their profits. Same with the sale of EVs, tax "credits" mask the true cost of the vehichles. This is not a political statement just facts.

So while many articals or news stories promote "alternate energy" sources dig beyond the hype and it'll become apparent that there's more than rainbows and unicorn farts emanating from the exhaust of the entire SYSTEM that these alternate energies require for production.

JMHO, YMMV

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

MSN article called it a 15L engine but in the article said 6,7L. Confusing. And hydrogen is a gas. How do you store hydrogen in a truck? Say you have a 40 gallon tank on your diesel. How much hydrogen will be stored in a similar space? As a gas, I am guessing there will be challenges keeping it contained. Do they expect gas stations to have hydrogen tanks for fill up? How would that work anyway?

The article mentioned both engines.
We've got CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) vehicles running around here with CNG filling stations scattered around.
https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/how...-8-trucks-work

[chuckster57]

There is about 40 hydrogen fuel stations in the Sacramento area.

[hankpage]

I'm not sure I would want this in my truck.

[flybouy]

⁹Makes a helluva bang when used in a nuclear fission device to!

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

MSN article called it a 15L engine but in the article said 6,7L. Confusing.

The 15 L is the heavy duty diesel that is used in class 8 semi tractors. The 6.7 is the medium duty diesel used in pickups and motor homes and such.

Apparently they have prototypes of the 6.7 variety but are going to have a heavy duty platform in the 15 L in the near future. At least that's what I got out of that article. Hopefully it will be better than the failed attempt of using CNG. I see all the CNG fueling stations shuttered at many truck stops.

[flybouy]

The CNG was IMO a failed attempt. Several cities went to it for busses many decades ago but I think most abandoned it.

[hazmat456]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Just think propane, acetylene, oxygen or any other gas that's typically sold in bulk at any welding shop, tractor supply or even at the "Blue Propane cage" at WalMart... Easy to store hydrogen, it's just "unbound water molecules"

Unfortunately that is not the case with hydrogen. Hydrogen will impregnate the container and make it brittle. The molecule is so small that it will seep out of a steel or aluminum containment vessel. It is NOT just unbound water molecules.
Hydrogen derived from water is energy intensive and nets only about 30% of the energy used to make it. All other sources are from fossil fuels. so there is no real gain to be realized.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by hazmat456

Unfortunately that is not the case with hydrogen. Hydrogen will impregnate the container and make it brittle. The molecule is so small that it will seep out of a steel or aluminum containment vessel. It is NOT just unbound water molecules.
Hydrogen derived from water is energy intensive and nets only about 30% of the energy used to make it. All other sources are from fossil fuels. so there is no real gain to be realized.

That may be true and hydrogen can cause embrittlement, but with careful attention to metallurgy, hydrogen can be successfully stored.
I worked on a hydrotreater unit that processed hydrogen at about 2500 psi and at high temps. I had only one issue with bolting on a recip compressor. The reactor vessels were about 60 ft tall and 12ft diameter with vessel walls at 2"+ thick. Yes, it was a sorta scary place.
But no, I wouldn't put hydrogen in a Blue Rhino cylinder at the front door of WalMart.

[gordo]

Originally Posted by gearhead

This is starting to get interesting. I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime but...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/auto...c041c10b574c8d

https://www.enbridge.com/media-cente...123722&lang=en

WOW, go figure MSN promoting some "ECO Frendly" Motor. I bet if the cost of fuel goes up a little more, everybody will be signing up...
Give me my knocking, smoking diesel

[Todd727]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

MSN article called it a 15L engine but in the article said 6,7L. Confusing. And hydrogen is a gas. How do you store hydrogen in a truck? Say you have a 40 gallon tank on your diesel. How much hydrogen will be stored in a similar space? As a gas, I am guessing there will be challenges keeping it contained. Do they expect gas stations to have hydrogen tanks for fill up? How would that work anyway?

So, you never heard of CNG engines, fleets and filling stations?

[firestation12]

This idea was covered by one of my mother's many wise sayings.......#14 "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"....

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Todd727

So, you never heard of CNG engines, fleets and filling stations?

I guess not. I have lived in a rural area for quite a few years and have never seen CNG engines, fleets or filling stations. Probably they are there but the nearest filling station is about 7 miles away and they specialize in Lotto cards, beer and those delicious filling station pizzas.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

I guess not. I have lived in a rural area for quite a few years and have never seen CNG engines, fleets or filling stations. Probably they are there but the nearest filling station is about 7 miles away and they specialize in Lotto cards, beer and those delicious filling station pizzas.

George I don't see CNG vehicles, fleets or filling stations either. I used to see maybe one CNG city transit bus every now and again in some cities but looks like they are going away. Fleets? No. Filling stations? Never ever.

Guess we could move to a megatropolis or something but....I like my fossil fuels!

[flybouy]

How many CNG stations are there? Not many, most are municipality or farm co-ops that jumped in on the Federal subsidies years ago. The number available for public use? Damned few.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by sourdough

George I don't see CNG vehicles, fleets or filling stations either. I used to see maybe one CNG city transit bus every now and again in some cities but looks like they are going away. Fleets? No. Filling stations? Never ever.

Guess we could move to a megatropolis or something but....I like my fossil fuels!

There are a limited number of stations across the country as they were trying to set up refueling routes for commercial vehicles. In the past two years I have not seen one that was functioning at any of the truck stops that have stations on the premises.

About 15-20 years ago the CNG prices were at an all time low and it was looking like a viable alternative to diesel fuel, even given the cost of converting the engines. The school boards in many counties across the nation were able to acquire grants for fueling stations and tried to capitalize on the savings as transportation cost are their highest expenditure.

I liken these commercial fueling stations to the current EV charging stations being set up in proximity to the interstate highway systems. But apparently it was a hard sell or the prices were erratic enough that few transportation companies were willing to get on board. It seemed like it may have had a future as natural gas is a byproduct of oil drilling, but for whatever reason, it's basically dead in the water now.