2022 Cougar 25RDS

[pawpaw]

Wife and I picked this up today. Great couples camper and the Expedition pulls it easily. Hitch needs to be tweaked..noticed some sway between 55-60 mph. Winds today are only in the 10 to 20 mph range and not like yesterday's 40 to 50 mph ones

[gregrc75]

Congrats, enjoy it!

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by gregrc75

Congrats, enjoy it!

Expedition pulls it easily but the hitch needs some fine tuning. Son in law will stop by after work and look at it. Needs more weight to the front axle. Thanks Greg...wife loves the floorplan.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Expedition pulls it easily but the hitch needs some fine tuning. Son in law will stop by after work and look at it. Needs more weight to the front axle. Thanks Greg...wife loves the floorplan.

I think the Expedition will struggle to control that size and weight trailer, especially without a wdh with intergal sway control. At 8,800 lb gvw if loaded the hitch weight @15% would be 1,320 lbs. and that doesn’t include the weight of the hitch. That likely will exceed the rating of the hitch .

The "tow rating" doesn’t equate to camper usage as you'll run out of payload and rear axle capacity first.The "empty tongue weight" will never be accurate either as that weight is calculated without a battery, lp tanks empty, and "no options" even if the trailer options are installed in every trailer. Good luck.

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I think the Expedition will struggle to control that size and weight trailer, especially without a wdh with intergal sway control. At 8,800 lb gvw if loaded the hitch weight @15% would be 1,320 lbs. and that doesn’t include the weight of the hitch. That likely will exceed the rating of the hitch .

The "tow rating" doesn’t equate to camper usage as you'll run out of payload and rear axle capacity first.The "empty tongue weight" will never be accurate either as that weight is calculated without a battery, lp tanks empty, and "no options" even if the trailer options are installed in every trailer. Good luck.

Looked up the payload on the Expy and it shows 1769 lbs. Must be the aluminum body and the mighty mite Ecoboost V-6. Camper is probably around 7500 lbs as she sits. Expy probably in 6500 lb range so its right at the 14000 gross wt limit. I'm sure i'll be legal in Honduras!! Tweaked the Equalizer and added air to my 10 ply BFG's and helped level things out. Took it back out on the road up to 70 mph and its a lot more stable. No tail wagging the dog!! Still can't compare it to the dually and 5th wheel campers I've had but just to mess around on short trips its not too bad. Only cruise at 62 mph and retired so not in a big hurry anymore.

[sourdough]

I've not said anything but from my perch;

Ford Expedition - people hauler, grocery getter, soft suspension etc. etc. I couldn't and wouldn't tow an 8800 lb. trailer with anything like it.

Camper is in "probably" xxx weight range and the Expedition is " probably" in the 6500 range. Isn't the dry weight of the Expedition somewhere in the 6100 lb. weight range? People, gear, toys, hitch etc......6500 sure sounds light OR a very light weight tow vehicle.

A wdh is mandatory and then, IMO, isn't going to compensate for the TVs shortcomings. Those are my opinions and if you think it's "just fine" then you haven't had a "holy cow" moment.....yet. Good luck but I'd be getting me a real tow vehicle.

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I've not said anything but from my perch;

Ford Expedition - people hauler, grocery getter, soft suspension etc. etc. I couldn't and wouldn't tow an 8800 lb. trailer with anything like it.

Camper is in "probably" xxx weight range and the Expedition is " probably" in the 6500 range. Isn't the dry weight of the Expedition somewhere in the 6100 lb. weight range? People, gear, toys, hitch etc......6500 sure sounds light OR a very light weight tow vehicle.

A wdh is mandatory and then, IMO, isn't going to compensate for the TVs shortcomings. Those are my opinions and if you think it's "just fine" then you haven't had a "holy cow" moment.....yet. Good luck but I'd be getting me a real tow vehicle.

Had a real tow vehicle but I sold it with no intention of getting another camper. Would have bought a smaller 5th wheel if I would have kept it!!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Looked up the payload on the Expy and it shows 1769 lbs. Must be the aluminum body and the mighty mite Ecoboost V-6. Camper is probably around 7500 lbs as she sits. Expy probably in 6500 lb range so its right at the 14000 gross wt limit. I'm sure i'll be legal in Honduras!! Tweaked the Equalizer and added air to my 10 ply BFG's and helped level things out. Took it back out on the road up to 70 mph and its a lot more stable. No tail wagging the dog!! Still can't compare it to the dually and 5th wheel campers I've had but just to mess around on short trips its not too bad. Only cruise at 62 mph and retired so not in a big hurry anymore.

Not sure how you look up payload on an Expedition as each one configured a bit differently will have a different payload. Your payload placard is in your driver door frame and tells you SPECIFICLLY what payload capacity you Ford HAD when it left the factory. I would also suggest some LT tires if you haven't already done so; perhaps at least Load Range E.

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Not sure how you look up payload on an Expedition as each one configured a bit differently will have a different payload. Your payload placard is in your driver door frame and tells you SPECIFICLLY what payload capacity you Ford HAD when it left the factory. I would also suggest some LT tires if you haven't already done so; perhaps at least Load Range E.

1769 lbs on the door jamb. Put some BFG KO2's on to replace the Michelin P rated tires. Son in law re-adjusted the Equalizer hitch and put 65 psi in the rear tires. Rear came up close to 2 inches and threw more weight to the front axle. Took it back out on the highway up to 70 mph and it handled much better. Just the wife and I so we pack light. I've got the max tow package with the 3.73 gearing so the Ecoboost pulls it easily. I think we dispersed enough tongue weight to the truck to safely tow at 60 to 62 mph on our flat highways.

[wiredgeorge]

Your actual pin weight based on the camper's gross weight will be in the 1100 lb range. The hitch you have and passengers and stuff in your SUV should then be pretty much ok unless you eat 8 slices of pizza.

Couple things with the new camper... check the tires on your camper and there is a certain brand EVERYONE advises change as quickly as possible. This brand is prone to blowing up and destroying wheel wells. Next suggestion is to buy a TPMS for your camper's tires. You can feel when your SUV's tires start to lose air a lot more readily than your campers. Buy an Electrical Management System (not a surge protector). I use a Progressive that plugs in at the pole but they and the other leading brands have one that can be installed in the camper and monitored with your phone via bluetooth. I have camped at some campground where the electricity issues would have fried the electronics in my camper. A surge protector will not help. Lots of folks who camp also use high end water pressure regulators for maintaining the correct water pressure when on city water. Last, when you camp and leave your trailer and go out of the campground, shut off city water. In a new trailer, there MAY be leaks; usually where the PEX connects and you don't want to come back to flooding.

GOOD LUCK and be safe.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

1769 lbs on the door jamb. Put some BFG KO2's on to replace the Michelin P rated tires. Son in law re-adjusted the Equalizer hitch and put 65 psi in the rear tires. Rear came up close to 2 inches and threw more weight to the front axle. Took it back out on the highway up to 70 mph and it handled much better. Just the wife and I so we pack light. I've got the max tow package with the 3.73 gearing so the Ecoboost pulls it easily. I think we dispersed enough tongue weight to the truck to safely tow at 60 to 62 mph on our flat highways.

Looks like you have all the answers you want. Good luck and trave safe.

[pawpaw]

Thanks guys...already have the OK from my CFO to buy Goodyear Endurance tires. Have a pole type 50 amp surge guard that I salvaged from our 5th wheel. If I use the propane up in one 30lb bottle that ought to save some weight on the hitch. We very seldom use propane because we very seldom camp in cold weather. Use the electric fireplace and ceramic heaters if needed. Have a 2-1/2 tank for my Blackstone and cook outside. Our first Fuzion toyhauler came with Sailun 637 tires. 14 ply G rated and I had a bunch of know it all's down here saying those are China bomb Chinese junk tires. Guess what they had to eat their words!! Those were on 16" 110 psi rated wheels. Both of my son in laws have 3/4 ton diesel pickups so if we need to make a long trip I'll just hook up to one of them and let them use the Expy. I already went out and checked for any water leaks since we already had close to 2 inches of rain this morning. None to be found. I've got a 50 amp pole on my slab and have a 100' water hose to hook up and double check what the dealer was supposed to do. One son in law is a welder/fabricator and the other is a retired engineer so they could probably teach the dealers and builders a few things. I'm just an old retired truck driver!!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by pawpaw

Thanks guys...already have the OK from my CFO to buy Goodyear Endurance tires. Have a pole type 50 amp surge guard that I salvaged from our 5th wheel. If I use the propane up in one 30lb bottle that ought to save some weight on the hitch. We very seldom use propane because we very seldom camp in cold weather. Use the electric fireplace and ceramic heaters if needed. Have a 2-1/2 tank for my Blackstone and cook outside. Our first Fuzion toyhauler came with Sailun 637 tires. 14 ply G rated and I had a bunch of know it all's down here saying those are China bomb Chinese junk tires. Guess what they had to eat their words!! Those were on 16" 110 psi rated wheels. Both of my son in laws have 3/4 ton diesel pickups so if we need to make a long trip I'll just hook up to one of them and let them use the Expy. I already went out and checked for any water leaks since we already had close to 2 inches of rain this morning. None to be found. I've got a 50 amp pole on my slab and have a 100' water hose to hook up and double check what the dealer was supposed to do. One son in law is a welder/fabricator and the other is a retired engineer so they could probably teach the dealers and builders a few things. I'm just an old retired truck driver!!

What brand/model "surge guard"? BTW: I use Carlisle Radial HD tires on my camper and have been through quite a few sets over the years. They are substantially less than GY Endurance tires and have never had a problem.

[Wohnmobil]

Being able to get up to 70mph is one thing. What happens when you have to try to stop that much weight with your Expedition. Pretty sure the brakes aren’t rated to handle that much weight pushing against the Expy. You’re back to the tail wagging the dog.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by Wohnmobil

Being able to get up to 70mph is one thing. What happens when you have to try to stop that much weight with your Expedition. Pretty sure the brakes aren’t rated to handle that much weight pushing against the Expy. You’re back to the tail wagging the dog.

IME this has no real bearing. The camper has brakes that don't allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle when the controller is properly set.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wrvond

IME this has no real bearing. The camper has brakes that don't allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle when the controller is properly set.

I've never had a larger camper that didn't push/pull the TV even if the brakes are set properly. Semis, trains, and yes, trucks loaded with an RV take much further to stop than an unloaded (no trailer, cars etc.) vehicle. If the trailer could stop itself as quickly as the truck it wouldn't push the truck but it can't.

[flybouy]

This is a never ending process that folks just never seem to understand. The BS "weight ratings" by both vehichle and trailer manufacturers combined with the BS salesman all telling the unsuspecting customer what they WANT TO HEAR so they'll spend money.

It's a common occurrence on this and on other forums. When presented with reality the often "go to" response to justify their decision is becomes the "we pack light", "we don't go far", "I don't drive fast", "we travel with the tanks empty", and every other unrealistic affirmation they can think of.

In my humble opinion the major issue is controllability. Two major factors effecting control when a light, short wheel base tv pulls a long, heavy camper behing it. Pulling and stopping aren't the two factors although they do contribute to the false securitty of " control" to the driver. Modern tow vehichles have plenty of power and with 4 wheel disc brakes lots of stopping power. It's what happens in between starting and stopping that's the issue.

The 2 forces I'm talking about are leverage and wind, both related but not mutually dependent. Wind, the larger the box the greater the forces of wind are applied. The longer the box the greater the leverage (force vector) applied. Here's some common sense examples. Stick your hand out of the window of a traveling car. With your hand horizontal, then with your open palm facing forward. That's the feeling of increased wind resistance.

Leverage, do to a store and pick up an 8 lb. mual hammer. Hold it beside your body and it's no big deal right? Bet you can do that for hours right? Now take that same hammer in your hand and fully extend your arm. How long can you hold it now? It's the same weight but now the folcrum from the weight to where it's supported has been moved. That's the force multiplier, just like getting a longer handle for a socket to remove a stubborn bolt.

So here's what occures all to often. A tv is outmatched by the trailer. The vehichle pulls it just fine and stops just fine. The driver realizes it's a lot of weight so doesn't zoom around curves, most likely doesn’t drive curvy roads much as they aren't comfortable with the width behind them. These experiences bolster the false confidence that all is well, just like the salesman that bought me a soda and gave my kid a ballon said it would be.

Then one day you find yourself in an unexpected bad situation. You find yourself suddenly exposed to high cross winds. Or you find yourself driving 65 mph and something happens that requires a radical evasive manuver. That force of a weight that's easy to pull and stop now becomes a far greater force at the end of a long lever. It then becomes a far greater force to manage. It's basic physics and common sense.

It's a long explination but I hope it helps someone reading visualize what's happening.

[pawpaw]

What scares me are toyhaulers with super heavy hitch weights being towed by jacked up 3/4 ton diesels pickups that have very little payload. These guys run 75 mph in the rain rolling coal. The exotic ones may even pull a small utility trailer with an extra atv or two with no brakes. Even towing the large and heavy 5th wheels we had with a diesel dually you would get sidewinds that would get your attention. I'd much rather pull a camper with some length and weight on 2 axles then some little teardrop single axle ones. If anyone is scared about the negative aspects of what may happen on the road they should stay home and watch TV!!

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by wrvond

IME this has no real bearing. The camper has brakes that don't allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle when the controller is properly set.

And those brakes are controlled from the TV, unless YOU touch the brake pedal or controller knobs that trailer will keep coming or going pushing or pulling, they DO NOT operate by themselves regardless of how they are adjusted. Well! I guess they will operate by themselves if set correctly once it breaks away from the tow vehicle. Also if rv brakes are properly set, at least in my opinion, you will feel the rv pulling a bit when you touch the brakes.
The best option for starting & stopping any rv is the have to appropriate tow vehicle, but as Marshall pointed out between rv/truck manufacturers unrealistic meaningless numbers & salespeoples greed it's near impossible for a newbie to know what that appropriate tow vehicle or rv may be.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I've never had a larger camper that didn't push/pull the TV even if the brakes are set properly. Semis, trains, and yes, trucks loaded with an RV take much further to stop than an unloaded (no trailer, cars etc.) vehicle. If the trailer could stop itself as quickly as the truck it wouldn't push the truck but it can't.

Just because a larger combined mass vehicle takes a greater distance to come to a stop has nothing to do with my statement.

Again, a camper/truck combination with properly adjusted brake controller will NOT allow the camper to push or pull the towing vehicle during a stop.

If you are experiencing a pushing or pulling effect during braking your brake controller is not set correctly. Period.

@travelin texans - I said nothing about properly adjusted brakes.

BTW - I am far from a newbie.