Final Word on Nose High 5th Wheel Towing

MEGrimm · 02-02-2022, 10:15 AM

On the verge of going blind sorting through and reading all that I can find concerning "nose high towing" of 5th wheel trailers. Had to replace tow vehicle and now find that our 2011 Laredo 321BH sits just a hair under 4" nose high with all pinbox and hitch adjustments to correct problem at their minimum height. Does anyone have some definitive word on how high is too high? Local frame and suspension shops are loathe to extend hangers on the trailer for "safety" reasons and 4 X 4 GMC 3500 isn't a good candidate for lowering. Spring blocks on trailer appear to be limited to 1.5" and the "experts" are even shying away from that.

Canonman · 02-02-2022, 10:26 AM

Our Cougar is also a bit nose high. I certainly do not have a definitive answer as to how much is too much. A local welding shop can create a 4" subframe that your stock hangers will attach to. Very strong and stable. About $1k cost here. Others might know more about how much fore/aft height difference is allowable with the standard tandem suspension. I'll be lurking to see what the educated thoughts are....

**JRTJH** · 02-02-2022, 10:47 AM

I would contact Lippert Tech Support and run any chassis modifications through them. Just "thinking outloud", I'd look at a "frame block mounted to the existing chassis rails with new spring hangers welded to the frame block. Extending that far below the chassis rails, I'd also look very seriously at Morryde X-Factor crossmembers to strengthen the side to side flexibility the frame block might cause.

Lippert should be able to advise you on how much nose high attitude is OK and how to compensate. Give them a call at 432-547-7378

Canonman · 02-02-2022, 11:07 AM

Thanks John, I just called Lippert. Live person so that was good. No real spec from Lippert though as to how much variance is too much. He suggested weighing the axels individually to see what the difference is but still didn't have a spec as to what weight difference was acceptable.
The fabricator here looked at my situation and thought we were "OK" in his estimation. Not quite 4" when coupled up.

**JRTJH** · 02-02-2022, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canonman

Thanks John, I just called Lippert. Live person so that was good. No real spec from Lippert though as to how much variance is too much. He suggested weighing the axels individually to see what the difference is but still didn't have a spec as to what weight difference was acceptable.
The fabricator here looked at my situation and thought we were "OK" in his estimation. Not quite 4" when coupled up.

I'm certainly no "axle engineer or trailer suspension engineer" but I'd suspect that what he "said without saying it" was that if you weigh the axles and all the tires are still within their maximum weight restrictions, then there "shouldn't be an overload concern".. If the tires are overloaded, then the nose is too high...

That's a pretty "elementary assessment" and one that we all probably had concluded before any phone calls, but that person "put it out there to consider" which maybe hadn't been done previously.

Weighing the trailer axles individually and/or even better, weighing each individual wheel position would give you the information in more precise form.

I'd guess that since no travel trailer is going to "behave like a fine tuned sports car" anyway, we're not really looking at "suspension as a part of improved handling" as much as we're looking at "not exceeding established rating maximums"... Weighing the axles and/or tire positions will give you that information. If the ratings are exceeded, then fixing the nose high condition might improve that issue. But, as long as the trailer tows satisfactorily, lowering the nose, just to "look good" won't improve much, if anything.

That's sort of my take, for what it's worth (less than the time it took to read it, I guess)....

Javi · 02-02-2022, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEGrimm

On the verge of going blind sorting through and reading all that I can find concerning "nose high towing" of 5th wheel trailers. Had to replace tow vehicle and now find that our 2011 Laredo 321BH sits just a hair under 4" nose high with all pinbox and hitch adjustments to correct problem at their minimum height. Does anyone have some definitive word on how high is too high? Local frame and suspension shops are loathe to extend hangers on the trailer for "safety" reasons and 4 X 4 GMC 3500 isn't a good candidate for lowering. Spring blocks on trailer appear to be limited to 1.5" and the "experts" are even shying away from that.

Just a thought... if your trailer does not already have the Lippert Correct Track installed... I believe it will raise your trailer 2" without blocks and then you can add the blocks if necessary. https://support.lci1.com/correct-track

Also, if your '11 Cougar is like my '15 was you could also upgrade your axles, springs, tires and wheels to raise the trailer even more..

How high is just a factor of dollars.. it can be done

rhagfo · 02-02-2022, 02:45 PM

Question, how much clearance at your bed rails? I have about 5” and haven’t had any contact issues. Do you have 15” or 16” tires?
Next step is 4”x2” rectangular tube sub frame.

Canonman · 02-02-2022, 02:47 PM

I agree with John. Our Cougar seems to pull fine and the tire wear is pretty even. I do rotate front to back when I do the annual bearing maintenance so I expect they would any way.
The fabricator didn't think it really warranted the expense of the boxed sub frame he makes and that's about as objective an opinion as you can get. So, I guess I'll keep pulling with what I got

spicercars · 02-03-2022, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEGrimm

On the verge of going blind sorting through and reading all that I can find concerning "nose high towing" of 5th wheel trailers. Had to replace tow vehicle and now find that our 2011 Laredo 321BH sits just a hair under 4" nose high with all pinbox and hitch adjustments to correct problem at their minimum height. Does anyone have some definitive word on how high is too high? Local frame and suspension shops are loathe to extend hangers on the trailer for "safety" reasons and 4 X 4 GMC 3500 isn't a good candidate for lowering. Spring blocks on trailer appear to be limited to 1.5" and the "experts" are even shying away from that.

Just wondering if you have checked to make sure that the pin box is as high as it can go and still have room between the 5th wheel and the box side? The reason I ask is because I had the same problem and found there was another set of holes hiding under the siding above the pin box. In other words I had to drop the aluminum around the frame where the pin box bolts to. If that make sense?

rhagfo · 02-03-2022, 06:11 AM

Well I feel for you, while the equalizer should even the load between axles, I always felt towing level had a couple advantages. I believe level is more stable. If you need to stop for a short night, sleeping in a level rig is more comfortable. Last but not least it just looks like you know what you are doing.

Some tiles one just gets lucky when changing TV!

This is our 5er with the old TV 2001 Ram 2500 4X4.

This is with the new to us 2016 Ram 3500 4X4 with leaf springs.

Maybe I just got lucky when we upgraded to the 2016 Ram 3500 DRW! This is the comparison of the back bumpers.

slow · 02-03-2022, 02:04 PM

I have been running 2.5 “ nose high. When I calculated the equalizer vertical offset only being less than .25” I stopped worrying about it.

MEGrimm · 02-06-2022, 03:04 PM

In addition to posing my question on nose-high towing here, I passed the question along to customer service at the factory. Days later and no reply. Short of having a sub-frame assembly fabricated and welded to the trailer frame I have run out of options. Well, except for the one where I just continue to pull it with just under 4" nose high. Refrigerator works fine and it doesn't look too bad from the side... Someone mentioned being lucky in not encountering the same problem I am having with a new truck but it appears that they are dealing with a 2 wheel drive. It is the combination of ever taller trucks and the 4 X 4 drive train that conspired to cause my problem. I want to close this out by thanking all the members who offered information and suggestions.

jasin1 · 02-06-2022, 03:35 PM

I’d look at going to a taller tire or larger diameter wheel if you have the room..maybe be able to split the difference and get into an acceptable range.

CedarCreekWoody · 02-06-2022, 06:48 PM

I had a similar nose high issue. Rear axle bent and replaced under warranty. Installed a 2 inch lift at that time. Much better.

pdaniel · 02-10-2022, 08:40 AM

My 5th wheel is nose high due to the aftermarket wheels and larger tires on the truck (not my doing) and airbags.
I haven’t had any issues in the three years I have been towing the rig.

lewy64 · 02-10-2022, 08:48 AM

Just wondering, what size tires do you have on tv vs other tv?

bobbecky · 02-10-2022, 11:57 AM

We were running nose high, and had issues dragging the rear of the trailer. Had no options for lowering the front of the trailer. We have had bearing issues, always on the rear axle, and also tire issues, also on the rear axle. I ended up installing 2" axle blocks and we are now running level. Besides not dragging the rear, the tires are now wearing evenly and when towing the trailer handles and stops much better. I went with blocks and U-bolts from this company. https://www.trailerblocks.com/

Mikelff · 02-10-2022, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbecky

We were running nose high, and had issues dragging the rear of the trailer. Had no options for lowering the front of the trailer. We have had bearing issues, always on the rear axle, and also tire issues, also on the rear axle. I ended up installing 2" axle blocks and we are now running level. Besides not dragging the rear, the tires are now wearing evenly and when towing the trailer handles and stops much better. I went with blocks and U-bolts from this company. https://www.trailerblocks.com/

The axle blocks under the springs is the way to go. Relatively inexpensive fix. My rig is a bit nose high and is as low at the hitch as I can go. No issues after 3 years.

rolopayne · 02-10-2022, 04:45 PM

I did the aluminum blocks as well. 3". Upgraded to 9/16 u bolts same time. Also boxed in all my hangers and added 3 2"x2" square tubing braces across the rig back, middle, and front at the hanger locations. Probably 5k miles on it since with zero issues.

SR71 Jet Mech · 02-12-2022, 08:19 AM

I too was in the same situation after a TV upgrade. After some discussion on here and weighing different options and much reluctance I decided to give the blocks a try.

Ordered a kit from the link in bobbeckys post above and installed them in about 3 hours myself. After 7-8 k miles and some tight maneuvering I’ve had no problems.

Was a good call for me.

I also since these photos added new equalizers and wet bolts and another great upgrade.

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