Door spreading?

LHaven · 10-06-2020, 04:44 PM

My main entry door has developed a problem. The filon facing is pulling out of the channel on the hinge side of the door, even when the door is completely closed. I have no idea even how to start addressing this. One would think the size of the door opening would prevent the door surround from expanding like this, but it obviously has not.

This door has those "stiff" hinges with the hold-open feature. It's started going "clunk" when we open it now, which I think is the filon reseating.

How does one address something like this?

Is this a problem that would be covered by Keystone's 3-year (5-year?) frame warranty?

I'm getting disgusted. I'm spending more time working on this thing than using it.

The second image is the right side of the decal that runs under the door handle.

**sourdough** · 10-06-2020, 05:07 PM

CD I know you have had issues with your trailer. How well do you know the dealer; particularly the service manager? Keystone predicates their warranty responses on input from the dealer and then tries to go cheap or deny. I just went through this last week. They can and will approve things that are obvious. To me a door separating like that goes beyond the 12month warranty. I don't know what is causing it but would seem it is something "structural" within either the frame, hinges or door itself. Personally I would be giving a run at the 3 year structural with the help and guidance of a good service manager.

LHaven · 10-06-2020, 05:15 PM

The service manager and I know each other well, in the pejorative sense of the word. A few weeks ago, when I retrieved my rig from my third furnace repair (fifth, if you count the times the dealer told me they repaired it when they didn't), I vowed I'd never go back there. My two-year appliance warranty was up and I assumed I'd never be using the extended frame warranty. I was going to rip them a new one on Yelp, perhaps this is the first time my procrastination has paid off for me. But frankly I'd rather deal with another service facility if possible, because my selling dealer's service team is pure Bozoville. They take an excessively long time to do everything, and too often they actually have achieved nothing.

**chuckster57** · 10-06-2020, 05:30 PM

The only problem with trying to get another dealer to work on it is the fact that any RV dealer doesn’t have to service a unit sold by another dealer. I would make your expectations known when you drop it off.

**sourdough** · 10-06-2020, 05:35 PM

Chuck brings up a very good point, and I figure trying to pursue the structural warranty (which I've never done) is going to take the participation of the service manager working hard, and convincingly, in your behalf. Maybe not, and you might catch someone in the Keystone service group with an open ear, but it would sure be helpful to have the service manager in your corner advocating for you. It's unfortunate they don't seem capable of supporting you.

What about the dealer? Are they a one owner place? Chain? Is there any chance of escalation within their organization?

LHaven · 10-06-2020, 06:03 PM

They're a one-off dealer, no chain, but they're substantial, with a nine-acre facility, and have been around since 2005.

I guess my next step is to call the SM and ask if they would be willing to escalate the problem as a frame warranty issue.

I'm not bringing it in and having them put it into the Phantom Zone on me unless they tell me they're ready to work on it. I want to use this thing this year.

**sourdough** · 10-06-2020, 06:36 PM

From what I can tell you aren't in a good position. I quit doing business with one owner dealerships after getting burned twice. Then, I almost broke that promise right before I bought the current trailer; thought I would get a GD. Called the dealer back in TX (I was in FL) and inquired about pricing, service etc. - talked to the owner. After they acknowledged they could not come close to the pricing I was being given we talked about service. His comment? Anyone that buys from us knows they have to WAIT! At the time we were talking about potential warranty repairs - 2 mo. minimum. I think not.

They, or you, will have to provide good, clear pictures to the service group to show the separation - they may want some kind of other picture(s). Your service manager will have to be your advocate with Keystone. He will have to know your issue well so he can converse with them without having the trailer....out there, somewhere on the lot. IMO you need to take it to him and he needs to see the issue - understand it, document it properly, take ALL the pictures that could possibly be asked for (hopefully he is worth his salt) and you take the RV back home and let him get to work. No sense in them doing that then it sits in the lot for 3 months as they negotiate back and forth.

If you don't know the owner by sight and first name now is the time to do that. Take the SM with you or take the owner to the SM to discuss the situation. Make your expectations understood, and, let them know THEY are the ones that need to make it happen. If they contact Keystone with this request and use a service advisor it will be turned down on the face of it. Your SM has to be able to articulate how/why this wasn't something that 1) you caused and 2) something that should have shown up in 12 months and 3) why it's a structural problem just manifesting itself - the show is on him, his knowledge and willingness to go to the mat for you - just went through it.

I think you can be successful but it will depend 100% on the SM, his willingness to intervene forcefully if Keystone is obstinate and his awareness that the owner backs him. If not, I have my doubts. Try that if you can and see where it goes - I can't say it enough - the dealer makes or breaks the RV ownership experience.

**JRTJH** · 10-06-2020, 07:37 PM

I hope I'm wrong with what I'm going to say, but.....

The structural warranty as listed in the Owner's Manual does not say that doors are covered and in the "specific exclusions" the list of items NOT covered lists "components not built by Keystone"... The doors are not built by Keystone, so as Danny stated, it doesn't look good.....

I got the above information from the 2019 Keystone Owner's Manual on pages 9 and 10.

ChuckS · 10-06-2020, 07:58 PM

Sure looks like a void between door and door edge bezel most likely caused by water intrusion from somewhere...

I’d press for the “Goodwill” replacement of the door.. cost of your door on Trekwood is $700 if wes5 coast unit and $500 if east coast unit..

We had a baggage door void due to water intrusion because of poor craftsmanship of upper edge of door frame... dealer repaired it and that lasted six months...

Keystone worked with me and paid me for the cost of a complete new door and decals .. but it took me two months of being “nice” and choosing my verbiage

This was in 2018 and my 2014 was well out of warranty... dealership was useless

**sourdough** · 10-06-2020, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Sure looks like a void between door and door edge bezel most likely caused by water intrusion from somewhere...

I’d press for the “Goodwill” replacement of the door.. cost of your door on Trekwood is $700 if wes5 coast unit and $500 if east coast unit..

We had a baggage door void due to water intrusion because of poor craftsmanship of upper edge of door frame... dealer repaired it and that lasted six months...

Keystone worked with me and paid me for the cost of a complete new door and decals .. but it took me two months of being “nice” and choosing my verbiage

This was in 2018 and my 2014 was well out of warranty... dealership was useless

I agree. If you are 4 years out of warranty one needs to pursue diligently. A dealership at that point is sort of useless (but I use them) and you have to present your own case. The dealers at that point aren't really wanting to pursue a warranty claim for you. And, I would bet that little customer service rep at Keystone didn't agree to that door replacement for you either..

"Goodwill" from Keystone is their way of saying, yeah, it was wrong but there is no way we are going to admit it was a fault so you are a one off....doing it right now for thousands in repairs on a new RV...it just isn't "warranty". Good luck OP whichever way you choose to pursue.

ewbldavis · 10-07-2020, 07:45 AM

So - what does door look like at the BOTTOM?

These are 1-piece formed frames - is it coming apart at the bottom? Maybe screws simply worked loose. Did you investigate if it was coming apart at the bottom of the door? Does it rub in frame or anything?

LHaven · 10-07-2020, 01:33 PM

That was a pretty good question, suggesting another line of attack.

The bottom of the door has molding strips on the inside and outside bottom. They meet with the molding strips on both edges of the door on both sides perfectly. All the edge screws are adequately torqued, none are loose.

I also checked out the "gap" between the door facing and the frame facing for even-ness when the door is closed. It's extremely even all around the door, except at the upper left corner (which is not the hinge side) where, for some reason, the side gap narrows down from perhaps 3/8" to about 1/3 that. The top gap, however, is even all the way across. And the upper part of the door is not exhibiting any obvious poppage on the right side.

It's almost as if the filon had been cut a half-inch too narrow from day one.

This idea prompted me to go back and look at early photos of my rig. It wasn't until seven months after we got the rig that we took our first photo of the correct side of the trailer with the door not open, but the graphic clearly meets the molding in April, 2019. By October, there is a small but noticeable white margin, which apparently grew. And would you believe that in over two years, I have only two photos that show the outside of that door? Unfortunately, the two I have are from far enough away that the door frame gaps aren't really that clear.

LHaven · 10-07-2020, 02:24 PM

Hah! I just got off the phone with the service manager. After I described the problem, he replied, "So the filon shrank?"

Wow, I didn't even know filon could shrink. It sure fits the symptoms better than anything else I have thought of so far.

Sent him photos and am waiting to hear back from him.

**JRTJH** · 10-07-2020, 02:26 PM

CD,

Does your door have "friction hinges" ??? If so, a bound/sticking friction hinge can cause the "hinge side of the door frame" to twist when opening and then twist the other direction when closing. That would eventually weaken the metal frame on the hinge side of the door and could cause it to bulge in the middle like yours is doing....

LHaven · 10-07-2020, 03:46 PM

Yeah, we have the stay-open hinges. They were in fact my first thought. But if the door were bulging on the hinge side, I would see that reflected in the door-to-body frame gap, right? I don't, and the filon doesn't reinsert itself back into the channel when the door is closed. (I ran a nylon spudger down the loose edge to make sure it wasn't hung up outside the channel.)

I put my long straightedge (1' x 3/8" x 8' bar stock) up against the hinge side of the door. It was tough, as the door is flush when shut, so I measured against the inside edge of the molding. It was straight, up until about halfway past the top hinge, where it ran in slightly just before the 90° curve. I also opened the door all the way and checked the edge at the inside molding, and it appeared to be dead straight (unfortunately, I couldn't reach the outside molding edge the same way).

Left molding to right molding on the door itself, down at the bottom, is about 23 5/8". At mid-window, this increases slightly to about 23 3/4". But there is no gapping between the side moldings and the edges of the bottom molding, meaning this should be the original factory measurement... and yet there are clear 1/4" rub marks in the filon starting about 2" above the bottom molding, so where is this play coming from? (Expand image for detail.)

I will note that the molding-to-molding measurements are identical on the other door, which we use comparatively seldom, and is not (yet?) evidencing any rub marks.

Edit: To be entirely accurate, what I have been characterizing as "rub marks" may actually be adhesive, since the spudger rolled off quite a bit of it. They still indicate motion, though, and I can definitely see the edge of the filon exposed.

ewbldavis · 10-08-2020, 08:04 AM

You really covered the bases that is for sure. I'd have to agree with your analysis - the door panel was cut too small and "shifts". The marks in your latest pic suggest it's moved back and forth some in the frame.

I expect other door is cut correctly and fine. Maybe if you reach out to Keystone directly they will warranty a new door panel or door.

I also have friction hinge. I doubt it puts enough pressure on door to torque the frame. Mine stay open nicely, but the right wind and door WILL move.

skids · 10-09-2020, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

You really covered the bases that is for sure. I'd have to agree with your analysis - the door panel was cut too small and "shifts". The marks in your latest pic suggest it's moved back and forth some in the frame.
.

Yeah right! The tech said the filon shrank! That is so funny to me.