Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-16-2020, 04:03 PM   #41
ACE123
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Littleton
Posts: 3
Fuzion FZ260TH

You might consider looking at the smaller toyhaulers, my FZ 260, has a GVWR of 11300#, I typically run with 12-1400# tongue weight on my F250 with 2180 payload capacity. I’m pretty close on maxing that out when loaded up (wife, dogs and all) but still within my limits. Toyhaulers do have the advantage of being able to adjust how you load to control tongue weights. I use a tongue weight scale each time I hookup to make sure I’m ok, not doing so can get you in trouble even when the TH has no toys Loaded ( light tongue weights are not so good sometimes )
ACE123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 05:40 PM   #42
boonecamper
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boone
Posts: 7
My chevy 2500 (2020) has payload of 3045 lbs and GVWR of 11,350 and it is duramax
diesel. Maybe he needs another truck.
__________________
Jay and Jan
2010 Passport 285RL
2020 Chevy High Country 4X4 2500 HD 6.6L Duramax
Lil Bit (the canine)
boonecamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 06:10 PM   #43
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE123 View Post
You might consider looking at the smaller toyhaulers, my FZ 260, has a GVWR of 11300#, I typically run with 12-1400# tongue weight on my F250 with 2180 payload capacity. I’m pretty close on maxing that out when loaded up (wife, dogs and all) but still within my limits. Toyhaulers do have the advantage of being able to adjust how you load to control tongue weights. I use a tongue weight scale each time I hookup to make sure I’m ok, not doing so can get you in trouble even when the TH has no toys Loaded ( light tongue weights are not so good sometimes )
Most Toy Haulers are "tongue" or "pin" heavy when they are not loaded. My previous T.H., a tow behind, weighed right at 9000 lbs empty. The tongue weight was 1340 lb when empty.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 06:12 PM   #44
MikeRP
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Columbus
Posts: 21
Ohh well frick........no I’m not a troller. I started on this forum recently looking at an Avalanche a friend of mine recently purchased. He matched it up with a 350 Ford.

I’m a long time member of Rv.net and Forest River Forums and iRV2 and many others. CCRVOC, FMCA.

Not that any of that makes me qualified. But I have spec’d many HD pieces of equipment including utility trucks, mining equipment, power generation, including being in charge of shops and the like and I am an engineer with a Class A CDL.

So we all have a difference of opinion.

What I don’t like to see is someone spend money unnecessarily. The GVWR on his trailer is only 14,000 lbs folks. How do we get to Yes?

No is easy.

That truck can be made just as capable as a 3500. The real rating on the axle is at least 10,500 lbs. He can look it up on his Ram build sheet. One of you accused me of being an Rv salesman and I wonder if you all are truck salesmen? Lol

Listen truth is his truck will be fine and more than capable of that load. You can’t prove me wrong. That sticker means nothing after it hits the owner. He will be as safe as my truck with that load. Every thing built by the big 3 manufacturers after 2012 are ridiculous in capability, way more than 14000 lbs! That driveline is nearly the same in a Srw 3500. Massively capable.

The Cummins and tranny are exceptional

So go back to basics.

1. Can his truck be modified to be capable? Yes
2. Cost?
3. Trade Cost?
4. Projected use.
5. Total cost of ownership.

Safety is this

1. A capable vehicle
2. Appropriate Speed
3. Equipment condition
4. Safe driving practices
5. Driver experience
6. Road conditions
7. Weather conditions
8. Equipment intelligence. Can the driver see if his tires, tranny etc is having an issue.
9. Practice
10. Defensive Driving
11. Route Planning
12. Inspection practices. How many of you are using an inspection checklist? And keeping it for record? Following all maintenance practices recommended?
13. Proper Loading practices from above and true!

Really I love all RVers. Making fun of an old engineer just makes him salty. So I say to the OP, Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Learn, seek advice, learn some more and you’ll save a lot of money.

My opinions all above! but treated with a love of camping and people.

Peace.

Mike
MikeRP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 06:18 PM   #45
MikeRP
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Columbus
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by boonecamper View Post
My chevy 2500 (2020) has payload of 3045 lbs and GVWR of 11,350 and it is duramax
diesel. Maybe he needs another truck.
Hey his truck GVWR would be rated 11,700 lbs or maybe 12,300 lbs. I haven’t looked it up if it was a 3500.

You made part of my point. On the new trucks the manufacture’s are moving away from artificially limiting their 2500 trucks To 10,000 lbs. If he was looked at correctly, the truck would say at least a 3300 lb payload.

Peace
MikeRP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 06:38 PM   #46
ACE123
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Littleton
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated View Post
Most Toy Haulers are "tongue" or "pin" heavy when they are not loaded. My previous T.H., a tow behind, weighed right at 9000 lbs empty. The tongue weight was 1340 lb when empty.
Absolutely correct, unloaded (no toys) and the tongue weight increases (by a fair amount) With the toys loaded we have to sometimes shift load forward as the tongue weight decreases (sometimes more than I like). It tends to be a bigger problem when we travel without the toys, balancing the tongue weight can be a challenge.
ACE123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 06:50 PM   #47
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRP View Post
Ohh well frick........no I’m not a troller...So we all have a difference of opinion...That sticker means nothing after it hits the owner...He will be as safe as my truck with that load..Can his truck be modified to be capable? Yes...So I say to the OP, Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Learn, seek advice, learn some more and you’ll save a lot of money.
Mike
My dad used to say "sliced thick or thin, coated with honey or not - it is still baloney". This is a simple discussion in the end. You believe it is perfectly acceptable to overload a truck well beyond the manufacturer's GVWR in violation of federal law. I do not - nor will law enforcement.

Hopefully, the OP and others new to RV's will be able to differentiate between misguided opinion and the law.
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 07:25 PM   #48
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
I think we had this same, silly, conversation about Ford 3/4 vs 1 ton trucks. When the rules, law, stickers etc. say one thing I would advise any prudent person from listening to anyone telling them it's all baloney if you just "tweak, modify, change" etc. etc. etc. and it "might" get close to that bigger truck you want to be....except legally. It's silliness, and dangerous.

Edit: and I've yet to see anyone tell us the suspension on a Ram 2500 is the same as a 3500....oh, add air bags?
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2020, 08:45 PM   #49
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRP View Post
Ok I will be the lone dissenter. Your truck will tow that trailer no question. You will need to put a good set of air bags on the rear. Weigh your truck at a cat scale and stay under your tire ratings. Air Lift makes a nice set with bump stops in case if failure.

Also don’t carry 3000+ lbs of gear. Stay around 14,000 lbs gross loaded and you’ll be fine. If you need to go to 16,000 lbs then you’ll need to look at 295/70R18’s with 4080 lbs capacity each. I use these tires.

No need to put $35,000 in a new truck so the sticker looks better in my humble opinion.

I respect everyone’s opinion here but the 2018 Ram is a super competent vehicle in this load range. With the tow hauler you’ll also be able to manage the pin weight with your toys.

In my opinion, do these simple steps a hook er and go.

No flames please, I won’t respond. I’ve given my opinion much the same as you all. In addition you'll still be able to add a Aux fuel tank and you will need a slider type hitch or an authorized gooseneck. There are some others also.

Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRP View Post
Ohh well frick........no I’m not a troller. I started on this forum recently looking at an Avalanche a friend of mine recently purchased. He matched it up with a 350 Ford.

I’m a long time member of Rv.net and Forest River Forums and iRV2 and many others. CCRVOC, FMCA.

Not that any of that makes me qualified. But I have spec’d many HD pieces of equipment including utility trucks, mining equipment, power generation, including being in charge of shops and the like and I am an engineer with a Class A CDL.

So we all have a difference of opinion.

What I don’t like to see is someone spend money unnecessarily. The GVWR on his trailer is only 14,000 lbs folks. How do we get to Yes?

No is easy.

That truck can be made just as capable as a 3500. The real rating on the axle is at least 10,500 lbs. He can look it up on his Ram build sheet. One of you accused me of being an Rv salesman and I wonder if you all are truck salesmen? Lol

Listen truth is his truck will be fine and more than capable of that load. You can’t prove me wrong. That sticker means nothing after it hits the owner. He will be as safe as my truck with that load. Every thing built by the big 3 manufacturers after 2012 are ridiculous in capability, way more than 14000 lbs! That driveline is nearly the same in a Srw 3500. Massively capable.

The Cummins and tranny are exceptional

So go back to basics.

1. Can his truck be modified to be capable? Yes NO
2. Cost?
3. Trade Cost?
4. Projected use.
5. Total cost of ownership.

Safety is this

1. A capable vehicle
2. Appropriate Speed
3. Equipment condition
4. Safe driving practices
5. Driver experience
6. Road conditions
7. Weather conditions
8. Equipment intelligence. Can the driver see if his tires, tranny etc is having an issue.
9. Practice
10. Defensive Driving
11. Route Planning
12. Inspection practices. How many of you are using an inspection checklist? And keeping it for record? Following all maintenance practices recommended?
13. Proper Loading practices from above and true!


Really I love all RVers. Making fun of an old engineer just makes him salty. So I say to the OP, Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. Learn, seek advice, learn some more and you’ll save a lot of money.

My opinions all above! but treated with a love of camping and people.

Peace.

Mike
Well as one of the ex-bad boy on this forum I will toss my opinion in on this.

Well never encourage another to exceed any of their sticker weights on an open forum, you could find yourself in court.

You can never change the listed payload unless you are a certified up-fitter.

While an axle manufacture may rate an axle for 10,500# that is ONLY it's ability to carry the the weight, not the brakes ability to stop the weight rating. The vehicle manufactures weight rating takes into account, frame strength, springs, tires, axle, and brakes.

Lastly is the fact that there is far too many hungry lawyers out there today that will sue for almost anything.
Keep in mind every towing section of a manufactures state many times not to exceed any of the listed weight ratings as it is unsafe. Once you do that intentionally you are open for a lawsuit.

When I finally stepped up to our Ram Laramie 3500 CTD DRW, I was towing our near 13,000# 5er close to 1,800# over GVWR, but still within both axle ratings.

To the OP, I copied this from your first post.
Here are the specs for the 5th wheel I am looking to purchase.

Length 39.25 ft. (471 in.)
Width 8.5 ft. (102 in.)
Height 13.42 ft. (161 in.)
Interior Height 6.33 ft. (76 in.)
Weight
Dry Weight 10,762 lbs.
Payload Capacity 3,274 lbs.
GVWR 14,036 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,036 lbs..


To think a 39' 5er can have a dry weight of 10,762#, is a big stretch. then for a 39' 5er TH to only have a payload of 3,274# is extremely light.

Our 32' 5er with a GVWR of 12,360# has a payload capacity of 2,106# AFTER full propane (2) 30# tanks, and full fresh water (45 gal.), without those it is 2,540#, toys are heavy. This 32' 5er has a pin weight of 2,800#, if I had chosen to get a 3500 SRW RAM with a payload of 12,300#, with my in bed tool box I would be right at max payload.

Most equate payload to pin weight, our 3500 DRW has a sticker payload of 5,411#, the last time we scaled (the end of may) the TV weighed right at 10,000# 100% ready to hook up, leaving 4,000# for pin.
Some math;
4,000-2,800#= 1,200# left over, if the TV was SRW average payload for Ram is 4,200#.
4,200-1,411=2,789# ! It all adds up.

So what it boils down to is a 5er's best attribute, is the reason many are overweight. They tow without sway (Unless you really loaded extremely poorly).
Bag to level, no squirrely steering, all is great until the Deification hits the Rotary Oscillator.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 12:37 AM   #50
Frosty46
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: St. Charles
Posts: 38
Wow amazing amount of misinformation being given. Is your turck a "heavy 3/4? I tow a Raptor MB300 35 foot constantly over loaded with my fully deleted 2007 Ram Big Horn Heavy 3/4 with the Cummins 6.7., Air Lift system I installed. I have a great air induction set up also. Mine is a 4x2 long bed crew cab. Now my trailer is a bit lighter than yours except for my over;loading habits. At 55 mph I get over 30 mpg empty and long hauls pulling produce 14.7 mpg at that speed which I find most relaxing and safe. My rig has seen 90 mph in the Poconos in the rain and it pulled the crests perfectly. So it rides very well. That trip and all my long ones I got the same 14.7 average. So it comes down to your tolerance for going 55 except downhill. I'd say you are more than on the edge of being too little truck. However you could look at most any two axle rig.
Frosty46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 03:49 AM   #51
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
This thread has just entered the Twilight Zone!
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 04:36 AM   #52
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Where's my hip waders ? It's getting deeper by the minute!
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 06:00 AM   #53
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,308
Time and time again we see 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton owners trying to convince knowledgeable people how appropriate their TV's are in spite of the shortcomings. Seldom do we read, however, one so bold as to say "you could look at most any two axle rig" and follow it up with tales of towing 90 MPH through the mountains in the rain.
I believe we are approaching the "I've heard it all" stage on this forum.
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 06:57 AM   #54
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE123 View Post
Absolutely correct, unloaded (no toys) and the tongue weight increases (by a fair amount) With the toys loaded we have to sometimes shift load forward as the tongue weight decreases (sometimes more than I like). It tends to be a bigger problem when we travel without the toys, balancing the tongue weight can be a challenge.
I certainly know about it being a challenge when pulling a tow behind Toy Hauler. My previous one, a Fuzion Impact 303 with an empty tongue weight of 1340 lb went to just under 10% on the tongue when I loaded the garage with two motorcycles, and all the gear and paddock stuff we needed for a weekend at the motorcycle track. I ended up doing quite a few things to make the tongue weight heavier when the toy and gear was loaded and ready to travel.
1. Took out the single battery and replaced it with two 6V trojan T105s. This increased my tongue weight by at least 75-80 lbs.
2. I put two 60lb sand tubes in the baggage storage area up front (the storage area under the bed).
3. I put a 35 lb barbell plate under the baggage slide out tray.
4. I started carrying about 50 gallons of water in the fresh tank whenever we traveled and then hooked up to city water if needed instead of depleting my water in the tank.

After everything was said and done, I got my tongue weight up to right at 12% of the trailer weight. Before I did those things.....the trailer sway was absolutely horrible and could barely get to 55 mph with the trailer scarring me to the point I wouldn't travel with it. It was definitely an exercise in experimentation until I got it correct for how I traveled 95% of the time.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 07:03 AM   #55
Moonchaser
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Palm Bay
Posts: 3
We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.
Moonchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 07:06 AM   #56
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
I once pulled an 80,000 truck & trailer with my CJ-5 Rough Country suspension, dual shocks on each wheel, 400 HP 350 Chevy, 4:56 gears with Truetrac in the front and Detroit Locker in the rear with Moon's full floating axles...
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
Javi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 08:08 AM   #57
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
"Sure, it will pull anything"!
Click image for larger version

Name:	RZR pulls Raptor.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	516.6 KB
ID:	29260
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 08:27 AM   #58
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchaser View Post
We have the same 2018 ram 2500 mega cab sb diesel truck but our payload capacity is 3890 lb. We tow a 2011 Keystone Raptor 35.5' dry wt 11335 lbs payload 5100 lbs GVWR16435 lbs. Other than Air Lift bags in rear it is stock & pulls/stops fine. Just went 2000 miles. We use an Anderson 5th wheel hitch & love it.
I find it very hard to fathom that truck with 3890 lbs of payload....I'm guessing we all need to see a picture of the white/yellow sticker on the door post. Could you please post it for us.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 08:57 AM   #59
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty46 View Post
Wow amazing amount of misinformation being given. Is your turck a "heavy 3/4? I tow a Raptor MB300 35 foot constantly over loaded with my fully deleted 2007 Ram Big Horn Heavy 3/4 with the Cummins 6.7., Air Lift system I installed. I have a great air induction set up also. Mine is a 4x2 long bed crew cab. Now my trailer is a bit lighter than yours except for my over;loading habits. At 55 mph I get over 30 mpg empty and long hauls pulling produce 14.7 mpg at that speed which I find most relaxing and safe. My rig has seen 90 mph in the Poconos in the rain and it pulled the crests perfectly. So it rides very well. That trip and all my long ones I got the same 14.7 average. So it comes down to your tolerance for going 55 except downhill. I'd say you are more than on the edge of being too little truck. However you could look at most any two axle rig.

Name:   BS Meter.jpg
Views: 274
Size:  14.2 KB
Yet another 30 mpg highway, 14.7 mpg overloaded 3/4 ton diesel!
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 09:17 AM   #60
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Attachment 29261
Yet another 30 mpg highway, 14.7 mpg overloaded 3/4 ton diesel!
I think somewhere, someone is selling Bio-Diesel made from Jack's beanstalk beans. I wish that was offered around here!
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tow, towing, toy hauler

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.