bad sway real bad...

donnie_o8 · 04-15-2013, 06:04 PM

So we just picked up our new 2012 Passport Grand Touring 3100rk on Wed. morning. But just before this on Mon. I went and got new tires put on the truck as they needed replacd anyway. The truck is a 2007 f150 with very low miles on it (34,450). The reason for the new tires was because they put general ameritrac tires on this thing from the get go (which are not much more than a car tire) and would leave me hung up when trying to pull off road to park in wet grass and leaves when hunting. So we go to pick up the TT and they did the walk thru and set up the hitch for us (a 10,000# reese with sway contol).So the tech guy is running me thru the hook up and tells me to wind the trailer hooked to the truck all the way up as far as it will go.....so I did.....then he says put the bar in like this.......I did.....then he says hook the chain so you got three loose links hanging.....so I try.....um...grunt...uh.. no way bra. Im a 260 pounder with abit of grunt left in me and it wud'nt happenin. Then the tech guy trys... he is alittle dude too kinda made me mad and laugh at the same time. so then he says try two links hanging....I did and it went. He said things should break in and it will get easyer. OK....So we rollin home with the unit all looking good and it happend.......The first truck passed us and about twisted this thing up. It was windy out and on a real bad rutted back road so Im thinkin this could have been the problem. We get her home and load up to go on the madden voyage and to meet our freinds about 20 miles from home.So now were on the interstate and I can't pull this trailer any faster then 45-50 mph. It is bad. I have drove semi and pulled triple trailers I know the wiggle thing I have also a 5500# boat thats pulls like nothing,There is something bad wrong. My buddie and his wife meet us with there TT to camp for the week end and we noticed the tire dealer gave me load range C tires insted of the E that I wanted. Talked to the branch manager they are going to change the tires tomorrow. Do you guys think being the difference between a 6 ply and a 10 ply tire could cause this type of sway problem or the hitch may be set up wrong. I also got to get the manuel for the hitch as they didn't give it to me.I have pulled many different things before and this thing is plan misrable.

SlowPoke · 04-15-2013, 06:16 PM

Definitely sounds like a hitch setup incorrectly. when you said he adjusted from 3 links to 2, just to make it easier to pull them up tight...that was a dead giveaway that he never took the effort to check the whole setup correctly and make adjustments for your truck and TT. I think Festus2 gave a link not long ago in a thread that points to someones "howto" for setting up your weight distribution correctly. Do a quick search and you'll run across it.

By the way, I have somewhat similar of a setup hitch/sway, TV and TT ... and have little sway now that I've readjusted my hitch setup. When dealer set me up, the TT was empty. On maiden trip, had to readjust after realizing the heavier load was causing some sway before re addressing my WD setup with different weight. Also did some weight shifting that helped, and dropped to a safe 60-65 mph to keep the sway under control.

camper 2010 · 04-15-2013, 06:18 PM

The E tires will make a lot of difference bit your hitch may be set up wrong. Get on level ground, measure from the ground to top of fender well on both rear and front before hooking up to the trailer. After hooking up to the trailer, measure the wheel wells again. There should only be about 2 inch drop on the rear. If much more than this your hitch is set wrong.

chartrand · 04-15-2013, 06:19 PM

Yikes.... I know tires play a large part, especially if they are low, but I'm thinking the WDH is not setup properly. I would read the manual, watch a few youtube videos on how to setup to fill in the gaps from the manual and then verify all the settings on your rig. I know dealers are installing these things every day and sometimes they don't get just right.

-Pat

SlowPoke · 04-15-2013, 06:22 PM

Here is the thread I refer'd to...it wasn't Festus2 , but SteveC7010 that gave reference to a site about setting up your WD...

(sorry Festus2, my bad!)

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...light=engineer

fla-gypsy · 04-15-2013, 06:46 PM

Get the instructions for the hitch and start over. In the meantime read everything you can about proper weight distribution. If you are using friction sway control (I suspect you are) and your trailer is more than 25' long (it is) you need something better. Your trucks owners manual will give you the info on how much weight to redistribute off of the back (measuring wheel wells). You also need some tongue weight. Ideally 13% of the total trailer weight needs to be on the tongue. Where is the freshwater tank located (front or behind the axles)? Is it full? Are the trailer tires properly inflated? A rear kitchen model is likely too light on the tongue. What is the elevation of the tongue? Is it level, nose up, or nose down? All of these things matter greatly.

B&T · 04-15-2013, 07:08 PM

A very complete and I believe the best hitch setup description that I have seen is located here:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/17730894.cfm

pedalsteelpicker · 04-15-2013, 07:29 PM

you can get your 3 links just by sinching them up before the total weight of the trailer tounge is on the hitch.

Laredo291OH · 04-15-2013, 08:26 PM

I don't know your experience with hitches, but you say this is your first TT. Are you sure the hitch is a Dual Cam for sway control, or is it just a standard WDH? I have had many people tell me they have sway control when they don't. They think the bars and chains are both WDH and sway. Can you post a picture of your hitch? What about weights of the camper and truck? This is just my opinion, but that is very large camper for a 1/2 ton truck. I struggled tremendously trying to pull a slightly bigger Laredo 291TG with a 1/2 ton Yukon and had the same issue you are having. Tires didn't help, sway control didn't help. 3/4 ton truck solved the issue.

TAZ23 · 04-16-2013, 12:32 AM

As others have said, it sounds like your hitch is not set up properly. This is a common problem when dealers techs set them up. Also you need to set your hitch up with your trailer loaded as the weight will change quite a bit once you load it up for camping. A properly set up hitch and a properly loaded trailer will make a big differance in how it tows.

x96mnn · 04-16-2013, 04:20 AM

@donnie_o8

E rated tires may help a bit but your issues sounds much larger then just that! To me it sounds very similar to what I experienced with a long trailer and a TV with lots of power but a short wheel base.

When you say Reese sway control, do you have the Reese Dual Cam Anti Sway? If you do it is the exact set up I have! I find it great for correcting sway but not the best system on the market for eliminating sway. You still get that tail wagging the dog syndrome referenced commonly when the TV wheel base is just too small and exceeds the systems ability to compensate. If your Wheel base is above 155 inch this should not be the case, even around 150 inch should be good.

This could be a incorrectly set up Reese Dual cam system! I have had two separate dealers set mine up and being novice myself just reading the instructions I know they did not set it up right. They did not have the TV to do the measurements in one case and neither took it for the test S turn run to dial in the cams.

Ken / Claudia · 04-16-2013, 03:15 PM

I hope your set up will work. Have the truck/trailer loaded up for camping and weight them. I think you are going to find that you are max'ed out or over what ford says the wt.s should be. If it still pulls badly a 3/4 ton might be needed. The risks to your family and others on the road are not worth the danger if the trailer is pushing you around. There are many trucks that, that won't happen to when towing a 30 ft. trailer.

SteveC7010 · 04-16-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie_o8

So we go to pick up the TT and they did the walk thru and set up the hitch for us (a 10,000# reese with sway contol).

How about giving us some specifics about the hitch. It's kinda difficult to give you pointers on WD and SC without knowing if you have trunnion or round bar WD and Dual Cam or Friction bar sway control.

If you have the Dual Cam, I will take the time to go find an excellent write up on setting the whole thing up so it works properly and how to fine tune afterwards.

donnie_o8 · 04-16-2013, 03:52 PM

The hitch I have is a 10,000# reese with friction sway control. The bars for the w/d are round at the hitch and flatten out at the end where the chains are. Empty weight for TT is 5540. I loaded it and ran it across the scale at work and its now 6160 minus our clothes. The tounge weight is 595#. I will get some pics as soon as it stops raining. I called the dealer about sending me the manuel and they want another crack at making it right. A 3/4 ton truck is in the forcast just was hoping not so soon....lol.. I think with the 10 ply tires and the right hitch adjestment it should pull much better.Thank for all the advice it is really helping.

**JRTJH** · 04-16-2013, 06:00 PM

In addition to adjusting the hitch properly, your tongue weight is 9.6% of the trailer weight. Ideally, it should be between 12 and 14% with minimum or 10% and maximum of 15%. So, your trailer is a bit "tail heavy" which may add to the problem of sway even after the hitch is properly adjusted. Even though you're just a "tad" under the minumum, you're about 200 lbs light on the hitch weight if you try to hit the median of 13%.

Having an exact hitch weight is not "critical" (anywhere in that 5% range should work OK) but when added to hitch adjustment issues, it can get you in trouble very easily.

SteveC7010 · 04-16-2013, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie_o8

The hitch I have is a 10,000# reese with friction sway control. The bars for the w/d are round at the hitch and flatten out at the end where the chains are.

In addition to your tongue being too light, if you have a single friction bar sway controller, it's really not enough for the weight of the trailer.

Some where here in the Towing section are several threads with detailed instructions on setting up a WD hitch correctly. Use the search function and locate them. They explain this much better than I can.

fla-gypsy · 04-16-2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnie_o8

The hitch I have is a 10,000# reese with friction sway control. The bars for the w/d are round at the hitch and flatten out at the end where the chains are. Empty weight for TT is 5540. I loaded it and ran it across the scale at work and its now 6160 minus our clothes. The tounge weight is 595#. I will get some pics as soon as it stops raining. I called the dealer about sending me the manuel and they want another crack at making it right. A 3/4 ton truck is in the forcast just was hoping not so soon....lol.. I think with the 10 ply tires and the right hitch adjestment it should pull much better.Thank for all the advice it is really helping.

Just my opinion, see if the dealer can make it better first. Adding some weight to the tongue will definitely help. That can be accomplished by filling the freshwater tank if it is in front of the axles. After the dealer has done all he can to make the hitch set up better CUSS THEM OUT for sending you off with a 34' trailer and friction sway control and find a dealer who cares about your safety. For goodness sakes get a better sway control set up. Since you already have a Reese hitch you may be able to add on the dual cam system which is far superior to friction sway bars

donnie_o8 · 04-19-2013, 03:39 PM

Can the dual cam set up be added to the hitch I have ? I looked at them on the reese site but it don't show the chain end of the bars very clear. Also I would like to say "THANKS" to everyone for all the input. I will get out and get pics when the weather clears up abit.

B&T · 04-19-2013, 04:04 PM

From your description:

Quote:

The bars for the w/d are round at the hitch and flatten out at the end where the chains are.

{Edit: Since i misunderstood your description, I suggest you check the pictures at Etrailer to see if you have a compatible bar. End Edit}

There are better pictures up at etrailer to give you an idea.

http://accessories.etrailer.com/search?w=dual%20cam

ktmracer · 04-20-2013, 06:46 PM

before adding any other sway control you need to find what is causing your sway or instability and get that fixed. THEN add sway control as a precaution. If you have sway just driving down the road you have an issue that needs to be addressed. Get that figured out and fixed first. Then ad sway control as a safety measure.

Also are you sure it is trailer sway??? The reason I ask is that from the sounds of it you aren't transferring much weight to the TV front end. and with softer suspension, what could be going on is that the front end is lifting, your camber is changing which affects stability and with less front end weight and lots on the rear what your experiencing is a vehicle starting to oversteer and it seems to wander all over. the TV is overcorrecting for your steering movements and turns further than you want/expect and become unstable if your not careful. Virtually all vehicles are designed to understeer at the limit and be neutral normally. Oversteering under normal driving is unnerving.

I've helped two neighbors who though they had terrible sway and driving was a chore for them. wandering all over. When I looked at the trailer setup, WD wasn't tranferring weight, front end was lifted. got the WD set up correctly, and they said it made an assounding difference. Stability returned, no more wandering.

one vehicle was an expedition, the other an f150. both have softer suspension than say a 3/4 ton truck. The expedition was the worst one with longer rear overhang and much softer suspension. both were loaded with high tongue weight for the vehicle, near the max allowed tongue weight.

Once the WD is set up properly, if you still have instability, then you'll need to figure out what is going on with the trailer. If it goes away, then just verify you have enough tongue weight. sounds like you are light on the tongue as well, it should be at least 10% preferrably 12%. The combo of light tongue weight and poor WD is a BAD combination!

then, we added the DC sway control as a safety measure.

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