Mystery Leak

CampJKL · 03-14-2013, 04:27 PM

So I was using the black tank flush on our 324RLB and the DW calls me over to the right front basement..."Where's that drip coming from?" Dang... Sure enough there is water dripping from the collection of water lines that come from the interior. I went and turned off the flush out and the water stopped.

To be sure that was the cause I repeated the process. Yup, there is a correlation. I tried to diagnose it but because the water lines run into the flooring I have no clue,

Anyone experience something similar?

Thanks

RdRmr · 03-14-2013, 04:54 PM

I had the same issue the first time I used the flush system. In my unit the vacuum breaker for the black tank flush is located under the bath room sink. All the water tubing ran up in there from the basement storage area. The inlet fitting on the vacuum breaker wasn't tight. Water ran down the tubing and dripped in the basement storage. Tightened it up and no more problems. Hope this helps. Happy Campin....

SteveC7010 · 03-14-2013, 05:41 PM

Search on vacuum breaker there have been a number of threads with extensive discussions of the cause and fixes.

You might want to look under your bathroom sink right now and see if there is water there. If there, it has probably begun to get into the OSB of the flooring. Time for a major dry-out.

Don't use the black flush until you're solved the vacuum breaker problem.

CampJKL · 03-14-2013, 06:07 PM

RdRmr/SteveC-

Thanks. I saw that valve and quickly glanced in and around the sink, but didn't fully inspect it as we were in a rush pulling out.

We won't be in the road for a few weeks so I'll have time to inspect the valve. I'll do a follow up.

(Had I known what I was dealing with, I would have search the forums first...thank you both for the enlightenment)

Safe Travels

stlucia · 03-15-2013, 05:18 PM

Good people on here and they have given you a great place to start. i also had a leak and after numerous times to different RV service centers and more than a dozen calls to Keystone to no avail, this forum figured my source of leak, the vacuum breaker.

As a side note. Keystone never admitted that I actually had a leak, even after sending them several videos attached to emails. A few more bugs to fix and the 5er should be ready for the upcoming camping season. Persistence is my advice. I've been at it since August.

Bluewater · 03-16-2013, 09:00 AM

I also had a leak the first time I used the black tank flush but got mine figured out quickly. The outside hose connection was dripping quite a bit while doing the flush so I tried to tighten it up. Well, that is where the problem was with the inside leak. Because of the type of hose connection they use a normal hose end would not seat to the gasket and it was spraying water around the outside of the whole fitting and running inside the rv. Luckily I had a spare brass 45 degree elbow with a much longer throat near the threads so I put it on and problem eliminated. If mine did that I'm sure many others are doing it too. Glad to help.

Brantlaker · 03-16-2013, 02:04 PM

The same thing happened to me a few weeks ago in Florida. called my dealer and he told me it was the Vacuum Breaker. I just got back and left the 5er at the dealer with that and a long list of Warranty Items like the Awing was put on the roller wrong (the flap ends up on the top & the awing is on the bottom),Hot water heater only works on propane,the Bed pulls away from the slide and the Pin Box moved. Most dealers have the Breaker in stock at $40.00.

Ayotte · 03-16-2013, 02:12 PM

Why not completely do away with the vacum breaker? Remove it and connect to two hose ends together. Would this cause a problem? Just wondering if everyone is having a problem with them.

Brantlaker · 03-16-2013, 05:11 PM

The vacuum breaker is to keep the fluid in the tank from backing up into the water line and coming out of the hose connector. When I get the RV back from the shop I will put a Brass Foot Valve (one way check valve ) in the line no more plastic junk. Another name is a anti siphon valve.

SteveC7010 · 03-16-2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brantlaker

The vacuum breaker is to keep the fluid in the tank from backing up into the water line and coming out of the hose connector. When I get the RV back from the shop I will put a Brass Foot Valve (one way check valve ) in the line no more plastic junk. Another name is a anti siphon valve.

That's probably the best solution imaginable for this issue.

It also allows removal of all that extra hose that goes up into the bathroom sink cabinet and back down which means one less worry about water intrusion into places it does not belong.

The other possibility is to remove the vacuum breaker, shorten up all the hoses, and then just use one of these guys permanently installed on input hose fitting for the tank flush:

Both ends of it are standard garden hose thread. They are very inexpensive (the one pictured is $3.96) and readily available in the garden department of any home improvement store. The Sewer Solution and other drain line back flush systems provide them as part of their kits.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/hose-bi...alve&FORM=HURE

CampJKL · 03-17-2013, 05:53 PM

Man I hate I have the leak but so glad I posted... Great ideas! Also I checked under the sink and no significant water issues. I'll replace that piece ASAP.

Thanks.

Lbrlady · 03-18-2013, 06:12 AM

As a happy RV home wanna be:
I find it disturbing that

the major RV mfg wouldn't be addressing these simple fixes and making sure the guys in charge of installing this part have done it correctly. After my 25 years in the mfg industry, quality control should always be addressing and eliminating chronic problems! That's how you get to be the best, not just the biggest! So much good and could be so much better. Please Keystone, heads up?!
When it comes time to make my final decision I for one will be Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware) I'd rather pay a couple dollars more and be trouble free. If there is no mfg with that kind of care, then this dream dies before it is born!
Regards,
L-lady

**JRTJH** · 03-18-2013, 06:59 AM

Lbrlady,

Part of the "problem" is that RVIA codes require some pretty specific components be used in RV's "to protect the public" Many of those codes were written in the past, when less "capable" components were available. As times change, new, improved components become available and many are used in today's RV. Some, however, are limited from use based on the way the RVIA codes are written to require things be installed or included "the old way" It takes time to "research, study, and rewrite" at the RVIA level. There is little that will be done until the majority of the manufacturers want a change. So, change at the single manufacturer's plant doesn't happen swiftly, there is just not enough "persuasion" on RVIA to make the changes. If there is no significant pressure from the industry, there's little motivation for RVIA to "gett off their butt and do something"

It is frustrating, but I have no doubt that any manufacturer would change the system to improve it (especially if it would be cheaper), but until RVIA does their "thing" to rewrite the rules, all manufacturers are tied to the old system.

Sometimes, it seems that our "protection" has the ability to hurt us as much as it helps us. But, without the RVIA sticker on the side of the RV, it can't be sold in many locations.

Oh, by the way, YOU (and I) pay roughly $150 for the "privilege" of having that sticker on our RV.....

Oh, and just for grins, even though we "fund" the RVIA with that mandatory sticker we have to buy, we can't get access to what the codes are, unless you want to pay roughly $350 for a set of the manuals. They, (the RVIA) defines what is "good for us" but won't tell us what that is, unless we want to pay for the privilege of finding out what we bought.....

How easy it is to spell "big brother" <smirk>

SteveC7010 · 03-18-2013, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lbrlady

As a happy RV home wanna be:
I find it disturbing that

the major RV mfg wouldn't be addressing these simple fixes and making sure the guys in charge of installing this part have done it correctly. After my 25 years in the mfg industry, quality control should always be addressing and eliminating chronic problems! That's how you get to be the best, not just the biggest! So much good and could be so much better. Please Keystone, heads up?!
When it comes time to make my final decision I for one will be Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware) I'd rather pay a couple dollars more and be trouble free. If there is no mfg with that kind of care, then this dream dies before it is born!

There are a lot of other factors at work here and some that the manufacturer has no direct control over:

1. Most of the components in our Keystone are used by every other RV manufacturer. A Valterra dump valve is a good example. They are pretty much the only manufacturer of this kind of item in the business, at least for the US market. Stoves and fridges and water heaters and furnaces and a lot of other items are all the same.

2. The PDI is critical, especially for first time RV owners. If the dealership does a good PDI or better, the chance of this kind of problem cropping up are greatly diminished. The buyer has a huge responsibility here to pay attention, ask questions, and really understand what the tech tells them. We all agree that Keystone should take the lead and set a higher standard for the dealerships in this regard but again, the buyer needs to be an active participant in the process.

3. The owner's manual can help here. Keystone's is generic but it does contain winterizing instructions. We constantly tell people here on the forum to make sure they have all the manuals for all the appliances, etc. in their rigs. And there are tons of tips and tricks here on this forum and others like rvnet.

4. Errors by the owners can't be left out of the conversation. It's not Keystones fault that the owner let the propane run out or didn't bother to winterize the trailer. And yet, if you read some of the posts here, Keystone gets the blame for all the problems. That's just not reasonable in my book.

I've owned travel trailers for over 40 years now. When we bought the Cougar, we knew exactly what we wanted and exactly what to look for throughout the process. When it came time for the PDI, I explained my experience level to the tech and asked him to concentrate on the fifth wheel aspect as it is our first and on the systems and items that are new to the market. We had a long list of stuff we wanted to have pointed out to us, but generally didn't need to learn how to operate as they were not new to us. I did not haul that rig off the dealer's lot until I was comfortable with every square inch of it.

Maybe I just have more reasonable expectations about these things.

rjsurfer · 03-18-2013, 08:06 AM

I too had a leak when ever I used the black tank flush, my leak was coming from the flush elbow where it enters the black tank a few simple turns of the fitting by hand and all was well. I made access to the fitting by cutting a three sided 12"x12" hole in the Coroplast, I located the fitting by "feeling" where the water was dripping down the side of the tank and hitting the liner.

Last year I pulled the plastic valve out from under the sink and yanked out the 30' or so of the Pex 1/2" hose, it was a simple job to re-connect the flush to the hose end fitting minus that crappy assembly.

One less thing to worry about

Ron W.

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