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03-07-2014, 11:14 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Western, Ma
Posts: 9
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Good Better Best?
Is there a listing of the ranking of the Keystone brands? For instance is a Passport better than a Bullet? Is there any difference in the bones of the units I know cosmetics are different but what brands are considered entry level and which are high end and how to they line up in between. I know it may be a lot to answer so if there is a link to a site that can answer that would work. I am primarily interested in the TT.
Thanks
Paul
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03-07-2014, 11:31 AM
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#2
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western PA
Posts: 2,732
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For a start have you looked at
www.keystonerv.com
They have ranked their trailers into three or four classes per trailer type
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2013 RAPTOR 300MP w/Rear Patio Deck NO Folding Side Ladder
2013 Silverado 3500HD LTZ CC LB 4X4 DRW
Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel; Allison Trans
Reese 20K; Carlisle Radial Trail RH/HD; TPMS (12 Tires)
Veteran
PSU (GO LIONS)
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03-07-2014, 11:59 AM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
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If you go to the site linked above by PARAPTOR and click on the tabs for "Trailer", "Fifthwheel", or "Toy Hauler" it will show the different levels ....... Standard, Select or Premium/Luxury ....... if you look close some models are listed in more than one category depending on trim level of floor-plan. It may drive you crazy deciding what fits your family best and is in your budget.
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Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
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03-07-2014, 01:12 PM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Western, Ma
Posts: 9
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Thanks Folks! So the Keystone site is infering that all the units in each catagory are of the same quality and build. Just Trim packages may change between the names hence the weight differences, Would that be accurate? See we are going between the Passport and Bullet and the dealers are of course saying each is the better of the two. Are they built in the same plant? Do they use the same frames, siding, floors, roofs etc.
You are correct Hank it will drive me nuts!
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03-07-2014, 01:23 PM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 7,015
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PKJJR -
Most of Keystone's RV's are built in their Indiana plant but some are built in Oregon. As far as I know, these are the only two "assembly" plants that Keystone has.
The same construction materials are used in RV "A", "B", "C" and "D". As you correctly pointed out, the trim packages vary slightly but all the "nuts and bolts" are identical. In one unit you may find laminate countertops while in another Corian or something equivalent. Take away all the trimmings and what is left is the same from unit to unit - the roof, the walls, the floors, etc.
Quality and build are the same from model to model and from group to group. Different options can, of course, be included at a cost and; after looking at all the various models and floor plans from which to choose, it's like looking at carpet and wallpaper samples. Way too many!!!!
__________________
2008 Cougar 5th Wheel 27RKS
2005 2500 GMC Duramax
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03-07-2014, 02:22 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Florida
Posts: 1,241
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You should really understand that most of the differences are in amenities and fluff within the different construction genre's. (stick built/aluminum framed). Many will use the same appliances and chassis' regardless of price. Don't get hung up on perceived "level" within the hierarchy. As an example; my "entry level" Hornet has the same chassis as the best of some of the other classes, better than a lot of them yet is "entry level" because of the options available and some of the material surfaces. The quality level in each is going to be the same or close. Quality being a very subjective term in the RV world.
__________________
2006 Keystone Hornet 29RLS (The Cracker Cabana)
2009 F-250 SuperDuty CC 6.8L/4.10 (The Black Pearl)
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03-07-2014, 02:58 PM
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#7
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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All of the above are excellent points. There are some "SIGNIFICANT" differences in some of the RV lines, but there are many similarities as well. Take for instance, the Montana fifth wheels use a "drop frame" design that makes for significantly larger front storage areas. The Cougar doesn't use that design frame. Another significant difference and one that I think is extremely important is that not all Keystone RV's are built with aluminum walls. The Springdale and Summerland, for example are built with wooden wall framing. However, the Springdale fifth wheel is constructed with aluminum side walls (vacuum construction) and the end cap walls, floor and roof are wood. So, there are many identical components, many similar components and some very different components. Trying to compare each to all the others is something that I'm really not sure even the management at Keystone can keep up with. As things change to improve or to remain more competitive (note: make more profit) what you see on an RV on the dealer's lot may well not even be close to what comes in if you special order the same unit for delivery in 6 weeks.. I've seen brands of components change "overnight", floorplans dramatically change without notice, dinettes converted to sofas on models that were ordered "like the one on the lot but in a different color" sizes of awnings, windows deleted or added, showers converted to tubs, tubs to showers, toilets moved from one location to another, etc. All in the same model year on the same trailer. So what you see may not be what you get unless you buy the one you're standing in. There's a little "blurb" at the bottom of every brochure that reads something like, "The manufacturer reserves the right to make changes to improve the product with no notice." You'll see they do this quite often.
I'd suggest that you decide what you "think" you want by floorplan, in a cost range that fits your budget and start looking at RV's that meet that criteria. Trying to line up 15 different brands and start the "this has, that doesn't" kind of comparison will never get you past the paper... There's just too many little differences that you'll seldom get two that match, one that's an entry level and one that's a step up with specific differences... There will just be more to it than the basics. Things like thicker cushion foam, heavier upholstery, thicker vinyl flooring, larger holding tanks, different colors, the list goes on and on. RIcher woods in cabinets, thicker carpet, nicer wallpaper border, nicer faucets, etc.
But, for the most part, the staples, screws, aluminum (or wood) type of roof, types of sealant, tires, brands of appliances, axles and so forth are pretty much the same on the "top end" as on the ''entry level" products. The level of expertise with the line workers is pretty much the same across the lines and often one "team" will build entry level trailers this month and luxury trailers next month. It's not uncommon for a "rush job" to be stuck in the middle of a model run and one or two "step-child" models to be pushed out in the midst of all the others. People get pulled from one plant to another depending on need, sickness, etc, so one who works on an entry level line may be working on luxury models the rest of this week, then back to his normal job. Quality is pretty much the same in most lines, fit and finish may be a tad better, but all of that is so "subjective" that each owner will decide whether it's a "good trailer" or a "bad trailer". That is pretty much the case across the industry, not just Keystone, but all RV's in the same price point will be pretty much the same build, construction and brands.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-07-2014, 05:17 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Western, Ma
Posts: 9
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Wow this is fantastic!
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03-07-2014, 05:35 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,846
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Find the couple of models you like, get a brochure for each and line out the things that are essentially the same in the description. What's left will be the "subtle differences" between the two brands.
As for things like appliances, etc. it's sort of this way: all the brand names are the same from level to level....
Entry level: 17" range, .9 cuft 900 watt microwave, 25" entry door, manual awning, R7 insulation, plastic faucets, slide end windows do not open.
Standard level: 19" range, 1.0 cuft 1000 watt microwave, 27" entry door, electric awning, R9 insulation, plastic chrome faucets, slide end windows do open.
Premium level: 21" range, 1.2 cuft 1200 watt microwave, 29" entry door, electric awning with automatic rain dump, R9 insulation with upgraded thermofoam added to enhance energy conservation, plastic brushed chrome faucets with kitchen spray, slide end windows open with darker tint to enhance privacy.
Luxury level: 21" automatic ignition range, 1.2 cuft convection microwave, 31" entry door with automatic closer, electric awning with automatic rain dump and automatic rollup feature for wind protection, R10 insulation with added thermofoam in slide floor for comfortable walking, real brushed chrome faucets with pullout kitchen spray, slide end windows with dark tint and added wooden plantation blinds to accent décor.
Each brochure will detail the frame, how great the winter season camping capability is, what storage features are "special" etc.
What they won't usually do is tell you that the frame and axles are the same throughout the levels (there are some differences such as automatic adjust brakes on the high end models). The filon siding and fiberglass endcaps are pretty much the same build with different molded in colors or decals. Some of the "entry level" trailers use filon (flat) endcaps while the more expensive models will have molded fiberglass endcaps.
Whatever you choose, good luck with the PDI and the first camping trip. That's where you either "fall in love" with your new RV or "learn to manage the love/hate relationship" LOL
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-08-2014, 04:28 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
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The thing to remember with RVs is most of them use the exact same equipment. The manufacturers basically assemble equipment from other companies such as Dometic and Lippert. Fit and finish as well as materials it what separates one from another. Some manufacturers offer longer warranties. For the most part floor plans are very similar from brand to brand with minor differences that appeal to different customers. Some things to think about that most first timers don't think of is how the region you live in should play a significant role in your choice. For example, when I lived in Wyoming where hail storms are common, most aluminum sided trailers look like golf balls.
Floor plans look great on paper, but you really need to sit inside. spend some time sitting in them and think about where you will put this or that. Little things like a place for the coffee pot will drive you crazy after the fact. Look at the storage, do you have room for everything you expect to take with?
My wife and I just brought our 3rd new 5th wheel in 5 years home yesterday. We have learned something new with each one. Last week we spent an entire day visiting several dealerships, looking at many, many campers. Took several pages of notes, and then went back to two dealerships and relooked at a couple before making our decision. Believe it or not, "the one" we thought we wanted after attending a show in January didn't make the top 5.
Good luck
__________________
Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
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03-08-2014, 06:01 AM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Venice
Posts: 5,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith0404
Floor plans look great on paper, but you really need to sit inside. spend some time sitting in them and think about where you will put this or that. Little things like a place for the coffee pot will drive you crazy after the fact. Look at the storage, do you have room for everything you expect to take with?
Good luck
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Great info ........ this is what you have to do. The floorplan is what you have to live with and must fit your family and way of life. The whole family has to input likes and dislikes.
__________________
Hank & Lynn
2007 Cougar 290RKS, E-Z Flex, 16" XPS RIBs ( SOLD .. Gonna miss her ... looking for new 5r)
2004.5 Dodge 2500 QC, LB, 5.9HO, WestTach gauges, Ride-Rite
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03-08-2014, 06:35 AM
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#12
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Permanent User Ban
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bartlesville, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith0404
..Floor plans look great on paper, but you really need to sit inside. spend some time sitting in them and think about where you will put this or that. Little things like a place for the coffee pot will drive you crazy after the fact. Look at the storage, do you have room for everything you expect to take with?...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankpage
Great info ........ this is what you have to do. The floorplan is what you have to live with and must fit your family and way of life. The whole family has to input likes and dislikes.
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Can't emphasize floor plan enough.
Sit in it... Pretend it's raining... and has been raining for the last 3 days straight.
Find the spot you'll be sitting when watching TV... Have your wife choose her spot... Now practice getting up and maneuvering around each other as one of you goes to the fridge... One goes to the restroom... Get at the table... Get in each other's way (on purpose) in the kitchen area...
If neither of you ends up stuffed into the basement compartment, then the floor plan is probably OK.
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03-08-2014, 06:39 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,665
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Believe it or not, we just sold our last 5th wheel because the kids took up too much space when they set up the beds (don't want a bunkhouse). We couldn't get to the table to sit and have a cup of coffee in the morning until they got their butts out of bed...usually a couple hours after I was up. Never thought of that being an issue when we bought it.
__________________
Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
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06-27-2014, 09:26 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 783
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Like you need another thing to think about... A big issue for us when looking at floorplans was, can you access the fridge, bathroom, and bedroom! We have been fulltimers for thirteen months and when traveling in between destinations, during the day we stop for lunch breaks and of course restroom breaks!
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Jeff & Jan - Retired & Full-timing since 2013
2019 Ram Big Horn 3500 Aisin 4x4
2012 Alpine 3450-RL
Double Coin 235/75R-17.5/16 J rated 125lb
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06-29-2014, 05:59 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Golden Co
Posts: 367
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One more thing. Before you buy it, have the dealer retract the slides and look inside. Can you really get to the refridge and bathroom? Some times you have to store a chair or table where you thought was a walk way.
__________________
Mark S.
2014 Cougar 318SAB
2015 Silverado 3500HD 6.6L Diesel 4WD CC SB
18K Pullright Hitch
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07-01-2014, 04:27 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
One more thing. Before you buy it, have the dealer retract the slides and look inside. Can you really get to the refridge and bathroom? Some times you have to store a chair or table where you thought was a walk way.
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Hey Mark- Yes sir, that is why we love this floorplan...
__________________
Jeff & Jan - Retired & Full-timing since 2013
2019 Ram Big Horn 3500 Aisin 4x4
2012 Alpine 3450-RL
Double Coin 235/75R-17.5/16 J rated 125lb
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