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Old 06-22-2020, 07:36 PM   #1
J-rod
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Auto Level Question

Guys I am sure I am beating a dead horse here but complete noob to the auto level thing and looking for answers. I just drove home a new 2020 Cougar 24RDS. Not our first camper but our first fifth wheel and first with auto level feature (factory Lippert Level-Up). Parked the new camper in basement driveway where I have always parked our travel trailer. I always used a LevelMatePro with the travel trailer and I know this spot is level within ¼” side-to-side and no more than 2” front-to-back. Pulled the pins on the front jacks and dropped to 3 - 4 inches of touching the concrete. Powered the controller and pressed the front button until enough pressure came off fifth wheel to unhook and move the tow vehicle away. At this point I believe a red LED light was flashing below the rear button on the controller (not 100% sure but I felt confident that the front of the trailer was high, unfortunately I did not scroll through to see how much). I elected not put any blocks or or levelers under the rear jacks because I thought there would be very little adjustment when I leveled and the rear jacks would be no where close to out-of-stroke. Pressed the auto level button and let the rig level itself. When it was finished the rear tires of the camper where off the ground by a couple inches and the front wheels were barely touching. Not wanting to get into the argument of whether that is ok or not I just don’t understand why auto level felt the need to raise the front so high that the rear had to pick the tires off the ground to level. Not knowing what to do, I auto retracted the rear jacks and then watching the degrees of level I manually lowered the front jacks until the camper was 0.1% high in the front. I then attempted to hit the auto level function again the see what would happen. No response from the controller. I tried holding the auto level button down for a couple seconds, still no response. I could not get the auto level feature to work. I decided just to level manually. I held down and rear button to lower the rear jacks until level and made fine tune adjustments until trailer was level according to controller. My questions are:

#1: Why did auto level feel the need to raise my trailer so high off the ground? It is my understanding that when you press the auto level button, if the front of the trailer is high, it will drop the front until just below level then drop the rear and fine tune. I was able to get the trailer level, according to the controller display (double checked with a level) at a much lower overall height when performed manually.
#2: Once I retracted rear jacks and dropped front jacks to ever so slightly high, why would the unit not auto level when I pressed the button.

I know you guys get bombarded with questions like this I just can seem to find a justifiable answer and would appreciate your input. On a side not batteries were completely charged, unit was hooked to shore power, battery readout was 13.6V.
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Old 06-23-2020, 03:54 AM   #2
CedarCreekWoody
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To answer your second question first the trailer MUST be in a nose high position before beginning the auto level operation for this to work. You need to raise the nose and try again.
As to why it would raise the wheels off the ground on a relatively level pad I can only guess. Did it result in a level trailer? I would suggest if it continues this to manually level the trailer and re-zero the controls per the instructions in the manual. But that is only a guess.
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Old 06-23-2020, 04:06 AM   #3
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Dropping the front is a function of the Hydraulic system “level up” not the electric system “ground control 3.0”. Nose high at start of autolevel is needed for “auto reconnect” to function.

OP: when your system is powered on and your not level, the LED’s at the arrows will tell you what the controller sees as low. You might want to reset zero point and see if that clears your issues. Directions for resetting zero are available at Lippert on-line.
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:03 AM   #4
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One possible answer to the question: "Why does my system raise the tires off the ground?" might be: The trailer must start the leveling process "nose high". That same process always "lifts the rest of the trailer to match the nose" (it doesn't lower the other parts of the trailer (that's why you must start "nose high" not "nose low")

So, if you start 2" nose high, the system raises the trailer to match that attitude. If you start 8" nose high, the system "still" raises the trailer to match that attitude. So, the "further beyond level the nose starts" will determine how much higher the system raises the aft jacks to match the nose.

So, try pushing the "auto level" button with the nose 1" high and you will likely find that the trailer levels "closer to the tires on the ground condition"...

As I said, "One possible answer" ……
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:22 AM   #5
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I noticed it works best when almost level to begin with...lol. But seriously, given the amount of stroke you really have to be conscious of where to place leveling blocks and how much to drop the front legs. Found it best to get close side to side with blocks under the tires if need be.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:16 AM   #6
BruceEA
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Congrates on your 24RDS. I purchased one back in February and love the trailer but hate Keystones service and quality control.

I think all of the previous are correct because I had a similar problem the first time also. If you always start with the front about 1" high, you should be fine. I also have gotten into the habit of putting 2 of the orange plastic jack pads under each jack just to make sure I don't run out of stroke.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:52 AM   #7
J-rod
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JRTJH may have hit the nail on the head. I didn’t pay attention to how high the front was before auto leveling. I just knew it was high in the front. I took for granted that the system would drop the front to about 1” high before it started the process. Instead it seemed to lower the rear jacks and raise the tail end to level. That might be the answer to that question. In the future I will drop or raise the front until it is about 1” high in the front before auto leveling. Any ideas on why it wouldn’t auto level after I auto retracted the rear jacks and lowered the front jacks until just slightly nose high? Maybe I was still in some manual mode that I didn’t know how to get out of?
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Old 06-23-2020, 12:13 PM   #8
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Not sure on that but whenever something like that happens to me, I shut everything off including the battery disconnect switch. Wait about a minute and start over. That usually does the trick.
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:59 AM   #9
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Not saying i disagree with anything above. But on my 327res the leveler will first drop my front down then start the leveling process. To be honest im not sure if there is a setting or home pos for this its just what it does. I always start 5/6 holes down on the front. If the system knows it does not have the travel to lower can this be why it just raises the back?
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribtip View Post
Not saying i disagree with anything above. But on my 327res the leveler will first drop my front down then start the leveling process. To be honest im not sure if there is a setting or home pos for this its just what it does. I always start 5/6 holes down on the front. If the system knows it does not have the travel to lower can this be why it just raises the back?
Depends on which system you have. The hydraulic system does drop the front at the beginning of the sequence, electric doesn’t unless needed.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:40 AM   #11
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Just wondering because i seen some say it will bring the back up to match the front wherever its at. Mine always drops the front after i disconnect the truck and just hit auto level. Mine is the electric 3.0
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:05 PM   #12
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The 3.0 that I've had for the past 5-6 years will pick it's own course depending on whether the front is high or low.. I've seen it go down when I push the auto button and I've seen it go up.. Heck, I've even seen it not move the front and just lower the rear jacks.. then start playing musical jacks as it raises one and lowers another all around the trailer for 5 minutes... just when you think it's done it'll start up another...
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:08 PM   #13
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Yep same ����up, down depending on the site - As long as it says “Success” -I don’t care������
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:47 PM   #14
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Yep same ����up, down depending on the site - As long as it says “Success” -I don’t care������
Ha ha yep me too.
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Old 06-25-2020, 04:18 PM   #15
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I have thought about the good old days and maybe just having electric jacks that I control...
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Old 06-25-2020, 04:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Keystoned View Post
I have thought about the good old days and maybe just having electric jacks that I control...
I still have the ancient manual leveling system. It NEVER goes into fault mode, isn’t voltage sensitive and is 100% successful. LOL.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:16 PM   #17
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They all have their own quirks and quarks. After 6 years I still hold my breath when i hit Auto Level.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
One possible answer to the question: "Why does my system raise the tires off the ground?" might be: The trailer must start the leveling process "nose high". That same process always "lifts the rest of the trailer to match the nose" (it doesn't lower the other parts of the trailer (that's why you must start "nose high" not "nose low")

So, if you start 2" nose high, the system raises the trailer to match that attitude. If you start 8" nose high, the system "still" raises the trailer to match that attitude. So, the "further beyond level the nose starts" will determine how much higher the system raises the aft jacks to match the nose.

So, try pushing the "auto level" button with the nose 1" high and you will likely find that the trailer levels "closer to the tires on the ground condition"...

As I said, "One possible answer" ……
My 2018 3811MS drops the nose to find the level spot. If I start nose low it never finds the transition so retracts the front jacks fully. I am parked on an optical illusion, it looks flat but it isn't by quite a bit (commonly called erroneously magnetic hills). After I learned how this worked I make sure to raise my nose above level which I check with a level as I can't trust my lying eyes. Then it works as it should.
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Old 07-02-2020, 01:15 PM   #19
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I will say that this has been a very good discussion. I have a 2015 Alpine that was never setup properly for level at the manufacturer, and have lived with it for the last few years. I just use a carpenters level inside and manually adjust to get it right. I always figure that the next time I'm on a level surface that I'll re-zero the mechanism.
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Old 07-02-2020, 01:34 PM   #20
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i have a 2014 Alpine with six point hyd system. it has worked flawlessly from day one and the level... after I calibrated it to my liking is always spot on.. I unhook truck, pull forward with truck and hit auto level and start getting stuff out of basement while it levels. never and issue even when boon dock camping
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