Tow Vehicle Capability

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by markcee

That's a really big trailer for a 1/2 ton! Your trailer's GVWR is just above 10K. At 13%, your tongue weight alone will be around 1300 pounds. What is your truck's payload ("cargo and passengers should not exceed......") capacity as listed on the yellow/white sticker on the driver's door jamb?

The tongue weight above, approximately 100 lbs for the hitch, the weight of you and all other passengers, pets, add-ons such as tonneau cover, toolbox, plus all other cargo such as firewood etc. carried in the truck all need to be deducted from your truck's stickered payload.

The payload on my F-150 (with no extra comfort packages or options) was 1726, and with 4WD would have been lower.
I suspect this setup is in the orange zone.

[RVDad89]

Thanks to all for the info, I really appreciate it! I planned to hit the scales this weekend on our trip! The highest towing capacity for the F150 is with the 3.6L twin turbo. The door sticker says 12,500 and it was verified by the dealer. Ford says the tongue weight allowed is %10 so I might be a tad over that but well within the towing capacity. We will be heading through the mountains this weekend so I'll post after on how we did, I may be trading up to a 250. We had a different TT picked out be then saw this model and fell in love! I realized it would be pushing the limits of our truck and hopefully it works out! I have to give the dealer credit, they recommended the hitch they sell and I bit, minimal sway, way less than I expected!! The hitch isn't the traditional friction sway it is a solid bar connected straight to the hitch so really can't sway!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

Thanks to all for the info, I really appreciate it! I planned to hit the scales this weekend on our trip! The highest towing capacity for the F150 is with the 3.6L twin turbo. The door sticker says 12,500 and it was verified by the dealer. Ford says the tongue weight allowed is %10 so I might be a tad over that but well within the towing capacity. We will be heading through the mountains this weekend so I'll post after on how we did, I may be trading up to a 250. We had a different TT picked out be then saw this model and fell in love! I realized it would be pushing the limits of our truck and hopefully it works out!

Realize that the "towing capacity" of the truck is not pertinent. Your other weights will get you first; payload, gawrs, gvwr, gcvwr etc. The "towing" capacity is a sales number to draw folks in to buy a cheaper truck with ads saying they can do far more than they can.

What is the payload listed on the black/yellow/white sticker inside the driver door? THAT is the beginning number to start with. Look at the sticker on the front driver side of the trailer; what is the total of the unloaded trailer weight vs carrying capacity (gvw)? "Pulling" the trailer up and over anything has absolutely nothing with its ability to "carry" and support that load safely.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

Thanks to all for the info, I really appreciate it! I planned to hit the scales this weekend on our trip! The highest towing capacity for the F150 is with the 3.6L twin turbo. The door sticker says 12,500 and it was verified by the dealer. Ford says the tongue weight allowed is %10 so I might be a tad over that but well within the towing capacity.

Dealers always push the "towing capacity." It's a meaningless figure, unless what you're towing has a wheel in all four corners... and RVs don't.

The figure you always exceed first is payload. And 10% is... well, advantageous to the dealer. The ideal range is 10-15%, which is why we use 13%.

If you're interested in plugging your configuration into a worksheet, there's a good one here. You'll get unbiased results, and you'll understand where all the skeletons are.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

Thanks to all for the info, I really appreciate it! I planned to hit the scales this weekend on our trip! The highest towing capacity for the F150 is with the 3.6L twin turbo. The door sticker says 12,500 and it was verified by the dealer. Ford says the tongue weight allowed is %10 so I might be a tad over that but well within the towing capacity. We will be heading through the mountains this weekend so I'll post after on how we did, I may be trading up to a 250. We had a different TT picked out be then saw this model and fell in love! I realized it would be pushing the limits of our truck and hopefully it works out!

The sticker below is the one I am talking about. See what number yours shows. That 12.5K brochure 'towing capacity' is a largely meaningless number in regards to TT/5th wheel towing as it's calculated with a load of cinder blocks on a flat trailer - not a 12' high 'sail'.

I would urge you to use great caution - particularly in mountain towing. We live in AZ and to state the obvious, the difference in pulling our trailer up/down grades is night and day between the 1/2 ton and 1 ton. Even in our brief stint with the F150 there were a couple of white knuckle moments where I really felt like the trailer was driving the truck!

[RVDad89]

Well it seems I'm a bit ignorant about the more important numbers of towing, my bad! I'll check the payload capacity on the door sticker tomorrow and go from there! Thanks for the information I don't want to be unsafe in any way I just had no idea about the importance of those other numbers! I would like to plug my trucks numbers into a spreadsheet to see, it's on this website?

Again I truly appreciate all the info, always learning!

[sourdough]

The numbers are numerous and can be confusing. The key is to know what they all are and make sure that your rig fits within them all; it's not a pick one or the other - you have to know and meet them all. Good luck.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

I would like to plug my trucks numbers into a spreadsheet to see, it's on this website?

The link is in my previous post, just click the words.

[JDDilly]

It can be confusing. I got caught by this about a year ago when we purchased our HC 381TH. Took one trip and traded my 2500 SRW for a 3500 DRW. Made a huge difference and I am much more relaxed when towing.

Check your numbers and move forward from there.

[RVDad89]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven View Post
Dealers always push the "towing capacity." It's a meaningless figure, unless what you're towing has a wheel in all four corners... and RVs don't.

The figure you always exceed first is payload. And 10% is... well, advantageous to the dealer. The ideal range is 10-15%, which is why we use 13%.

If you're interested in plugging your configuration into a worksheet, there's a good one here. You'll get unbiased results, and you'll understand where all the skeletons are. Quote


Again thanks for all the info/input I really appreciate the help! I ran the numbers in the worksheet and it came back with max TT as 8497, DOH! That's what the 341RD weighs dry! So what does that mean? Frustrating to say the least, what good is the towing capacity then? I specifically picked the F150 due to the highest capacity in the 1500 market! I had 2-3 RV dealers tell me subtract 10% from max capacity and that's plenty safety buffer with the right WDH!!

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

I ran the numbers in the worksheet and it came back with max TT as 8497, DOH! That's what the 341RD weighs dry! So what does that mean? Frustrating to say the least, what good is the towing capacity then?

Well, if you ever needed to tow a choo-choo train, Bob's your uncle.

Originally Posted by RVDad89

I specifically picked the F150 due to the highest capacity in the 1500 market! I had 2-3 RV dealers tell me subtract 10% from max capacity and that's plenty safety buffer with the right WDH!!

Yup, as did many of us. Dealers earn money by selling trucks. And a lot of them know less than the buyer does about trailering. (I had one that kept correcting me every time I used the term "tongue weight" -- he insisted it was "pin weight." Yeah, if I had a 5th wheel, but I don't. And then the payload percentage would be even greater, and he'd fail it worse.)

WDH matters in only two cases -- to keep the steering tires properly loaded, and to unload the rear axle if that's a problem. In many cases with trailers in the 8-9K range, the rear axle is quite happy, but the payload is used up. (We use the WDH anyway to keep the steering happy.)

It's a shame that the natural order of things is to buy a trailer, perhaps buy a truck, and then join a trailering forum. If we could just get the world to work backwards there, we could save a lot of RV owners a lot of grief.

[SummitPond]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

<snip>
Again thanks for all the info/input I really appreciate the help! I ran the numbers in the worksheet and it came back with max TT as 8497, DOH! That's what the 341RD weighs dry! So what does that mean? Frustrating to say the least, what good is the towing capacity then? I specifically picked the F150 due to the highest capacity in the 1500 market! I had 2-3 RV dealers tell me subtract 10% from max capacity and that's plenty safety buffer with the right WDH!!

You mentioned you might upgrade to a 250. Others will tell you that a 350 is not that much more expensive. I wish I would have known when we bought our truck (used).

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by RVDad89

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven View Post
Dealers always push the "towing capacity." It's a meaningless figure, unless what you're towing has a wheel in all four corners... and RVs don't.

The figure you always exceed first is payload. And 10% is... well, advantageous to the dealer. The ideal range is 10-15%, which is why we use 13%.

If you're interested in plugging your configuration into a worksheet, there's a good one here. You'll get unbiased results, and you'll understand where all the skeletons are. Quote


Again thanks for all the info/input I really appreciate the help! I ran the numbers in the worksheet and it came back with max TT as 8497, DOH! That's what the 341RD weighs dry! So what does that mean? Frustrating to say the least, what good is the towing capacity then? I specifically picked the F150 due to the highest capacity in the 1500 market! I had 2-3 RV dealers tell me subtract 10% from max capacity and that's plenty safety buffer with the right WDH!!

RVDad89, What good is the "towing capacity". In the real world NOTHING. In the heavy duty truck shoot outs in magazines what compare these numbers; well bragging rights. Ever hear a truck commercial on the television claiming HIGHEST TOWING CAPACITY IN ITS CLASS? It is a sales ploy to make you think you have the biggest ability to tow compared to other trucks in the same class. And the trucks they talk about ain't yours. They are some specially equipped and stripped model made just to come up with a number and the number is obtained by testing that is meaningless in the real world. Who pulls a flat bed trailer with blocks? Best selling, most durable, highest owner satisfaction... the list goes on.

[nellie1289]

It is my opinion that they use this "towing capacity" as a marketing ploy too, and that they are always underrating the "tow capacity". Does anyone really think that the tow capacity of 2013 ram, same chassis, same HO engine, aisin tranny, was magically transformed to 2020, when the max towing is suddenly 6,000 lbs more than it was, with no suspension, tranny, or engine changes? they always hold some back so they can boost it each year until the next model comes out. That being said, the payload never changes on this same example, cause it cant "take more" until they actually redesign it. I cant prove this, but I personally think it is 100% fact.

[Jim2366]

I watched this video tonight before reading this and thought it was really good and getting a handle on the weight ratings and terms.

https://youtu.be/zCxyJL94rJQ

[MarkEHansen]

RVDad89 - really sorry to see you fall into this trap. The same thing happened to us. Before we knew about the weight numbers and how to interpret them, the RV dealer said our previous vehicle was plenty big enough to tow our current trailer.

It was not. It more than just what it can pull with the engine/turbo. The truck needs to be able to manage the load as well. Especially in emergency situations, like when blowing a tire (on the truck or on the trailer), quick diversions to avoid animals jumping out in front of you, etc.

The other thing is the length of the trailer. On a light-weight truck like the 150/1500, it will cause a lot of sway. Just search youTube for trailer sway crashes to see what these look like. For a trailer that size (both weight and length) you really need a heaver truck, like the 250/2500 or better, the 350/3500.

Ask your questions - everyone is here to help you.

Good luck.

[Weldon]

I really hate to stick my neck out here, since I'm a new TT owner and drive a 1500 RAM with the 5.7 Hemi. But maybe by doing so, a potential TT buyer won't do what i did. Our dealer told me it would be "no problem" on a Friday at 4:00 pm for me to pull our TT home, even though I had (a) no sway bars and (b) no WDH. Plus I had my 9-yr old daughter riding with me. I white knuckled the TT to our storage facility at 45 mph, dropped my daughter off at home, then went directly to HF and bought the WHD and 2 sway bar control kits. Dealing with our small time dealer was a great experience, but he could have gotten myself and my daughter killed by telling us that we could pull the TT 2-hours on major interstates with "no problem" using only my ball hitch. I look back at that now and thank my guardian angels for getting us home safely.

I have the build sheet for my truck, and all the #s for our TT. I used the calculator that was posted above, and thankfully, we fall within specs. I always drive with the tanks dry. I've had no problem pulling our TT but have been nervous several times through places like Blood Mountain near Helen, GA. Very curvy and hilly. On a very windy day on flat interstate roads, I can feel the TT sway, but a gentle tap of the breaks brings it back. With the 2 sway bars and the WDH, pulling the TT doesn't frazzle my nerves anymore, but the first 2 or 3 trips were intense.

To me, driving with a TT is like driving a motorcycle...you look ahead and side to side, watching for the stuff that is likely to make you lock up the brakes or have to swerve. I've found that most of the times that I've almost wrecked were the results of other folks, and only by watching everything around me, could i avoid a bad situation. In other words, be patient, be present, and be persistent. My TT can be replaced, but my family cannot.

[travelin texans]

I got severely scolded yesterday on another forum when a fellow said he'd traded his TT for a 30'+ 10k lb 5th wheel & looking for a good hitch for his F150. I made the remark that he should check the numbers & do some calculations on towing that much rv with a F150. That got me a scolding from a moderator telling me that my remarks about weight had absolutely nothing to do with the question asked. Then from OP that stated it was well within all the numbers, he had driven trucks, knew all about weights & didn't need to do any calculations. So then he decides he's putting in an automatic slider hitch for another 200-300 lbs in the bed of that F150. I told them I was only concerned for their safety & everyone else on the highway with them.
What say you? Should I have kept my nose out of it?

[Weldon]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

I got severely scolded yesterday on another forum when a fellow said he'd traded his TT for a 30'+ 10k lb 5th wheel & looking for a good hitch for his F150. I made the remark that he should check the numbers & do some calculations on towing that much rv with a F150. That got me a scolding from a moderator telling me that my remarks about weight had absolutely nothing to do with the question asked. Then from OP that stated it was well within all the numbers, he had driven trucks, knew all about weights & didn't need to do any calculations. So then he decides he's putting in an automatic slider hitch for another 200-300 lbs in the bed of that F150. I told them I was only concerned for their safety & everyone else on the highway with them.
What say you? Should I have kept my nose out of it?

Not if you truly believe he could have endangered himself or others. I think you did the right thing.

[sourdough]

Danny, I too belong to several other RV forums. Some I have no doubt do not like to address weight - everyone is supposed to be a "happy camper" and the forum is to revel in whatever it is you have or do...period. Sort of like a Ram forum, Cummings forum, Ford forum etc. All are "beasts" and no matter what you do or discuss everything is "hunky dory".

The above attitude I truly believe is one of the primary reasons we see SO many folks overloaded with RVs that should never be on a particular truck - why so many think if you have a 3/4 ton with diesel you can pull the Titanic and you should never look further. A problem in and of themselves IMO.

This forum has lots of new members. As we see we are getting more and more with different brands. Of all the forums I'm on this one stresses weight issues by far the most. Personally I think it is pretty much a mandate to inform folks of potential problems, some possibly life threatening, for their families. I think it is a disservice to the member and their family to completely ignore the viper about to bite them in the neck because they don't see it. As we see in the posts from members that have asked, and many that haven't, they appreciate those things being pointed out. Generally they were completely unaware and would have been had one of us not pointed it out then explain how, and why, you calculate the numbers and what they mean.

As far as I'm concerned you didn't do anything wrong by advising the poster of your concerns and what to check - I think it is trying to take care of a fellow RVer. The mod sounds like another forum I'm on, maybe the same one; nothing should be said about anything that might make someone question anything they've said or think - YOU are at fault. I've gotten those scoldings and PMs as well - Oh well, the truth is the truth and trying to help is a good thing IMO.