Adding Inverter to Loop Prepped Circuit Flex 200

[cbatsford]

I want to add an inverter as the next step to expanding my Solar Flex 200.

Here is what I have:
1. 30A solar roof port w/ MC4 connectors & 10 AWG MPPT solar charging circuit
2. Future Solutions 200-watt solar panel
3. 15A Victron SmartSolar MPPT controller w/ Bluetooth app
4. Inverted 110v loop prep with up to 7 outlets (inverter not included)
5. Zamp Solar portable solar panel charge port
6. Just added one more group 24 Led Acid - for 2 total Batteries

KEYSTONE recommends the following as a step to upgrade/add to system...
Install 2000w inverter in inverted prep circuit -- Xantrex (KRV part# 653865) or Magnum (KRV part# 686127) recommended [/I]

I know two G24) led acid batteries is not much at all in terms of power storage - so ignore the capacity dilemma...

Can I proceed to adding one of the recommended inverters above so that I can kick off some live battery power to the "looped" outlets? Even if the only thing I use them for is a night light or cell phone charger? Or is there a step required to avoid nightmare/headache?

Thanks in advance!

Charlie

[chuckster57]

All you have to do is cut the Romex loop WITH THE POWER OFF, then determine which end is live on shore power.

I would get an inverter with automatic transfer (pass through). Live end goes to AC IN, other end goes to AC OUT. Then using correct gauge wire, connect to batteries.

When you have 2 gp24 batteries wire them up in parallel. Then connect the trailer leads to opposite batteries (positive to battery A and negative to battery B).

I like to use the other posts for the solar and inverter.

[jxnbbl]

I would start with the following by doing the following:

1. plug the trailer in with AC
2. turn of the "inverter" circuit breaker.
3. with an electrical tester/nightlight etc....figure out which outlets are part of this circuit (since if marked not always accurate). Mark those (I put a small sticker on those).

Then knowing which outlets work - what would you use with those outlets and what size inverter do you need? I believe most people need a 1000W inverter and disagree that you need 2000W unless you have other plans to expand the number of outlets, etc. Additionally this change increases the requirements for the cabling from the battery to the inverter as previously discussed in the forum.

In summary, If it is a coffee maker and TV you don't need it. If it is the AC, outside fridge, etc there is a lot more work to do. To wire other outlets/circuits gets more complicated as you have to route additional romex as well as probably put some protection as you will be wiring 14 ga wire for some circuits where 12ga is needed of a 15A protection on the "line side" of that circuit.

[cbatsford]

Thank you!

Seems like a 1000 watt converter is the ticket - as I will have minimal needs.

Any recommendations on a decent unit?

CB

[cbatsford]

Some ofy best friends call me Chuckster also! Solid name!

[Essvar]

Originally Posted by cbatsford

Thank you!

Seems like a 1000 watt converter is the ticket - as I will have minimal needs.

Any recommendations on a decent unit?

CB

I'd suggest going up one step to a 2000w for a couple reasons. One being most 1000w inverters are not "Pass-Through" which you will want to make sure your outlets work when you are plugged into shore power and the inverter is not turned on. The other thing a 2000w inverter gives you is 2x the surge capacity. You'd be surprised what kind of surge load even small devices can demand. Check out www.donrowe.com for a lot of inverter options.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Essvar

I'd suggest going up one step to a 2000w for a couple reasons. One being most 1000w inverters are not "Pass-Through" which you will want to make sure your outlets work when you are plugged into shore power and the inverter is not turned on. The other thing a 2000w inverter gives you is 2x the surge capacity. You'd be surprised what kind of surge load even small devices can demand. Check out www.donrowe.com for a lot of inverter options.

I agree, I would step up to a 2000W unit.

Previous and present shop prefer Renology products.

[jxnbbl]

Xantrex XC 1000 has 2000 surge and the 'recommended' Xantrex XC 2000 has surge of 4000. Both have a build in transfer switch.

Also if the wire is yellow/12ga you are all set (solarflex 200 should all have them...but some don't that I've seen). If white/14ga your stuck at 1000W without additional work.

[spicercars]

Welcome from northern MN.

[CougarLover]

I know this thread has been done for a while, but I have a related question. I too am adding an inverter to my Solarflex 200, a Xantron 817-2000 inverter. My 2024 Cougar has a Keystone Giggy Box connection between the Batteries and the rest of the trailer electrical. My question is how do I connect the battery cables to the Xantron inverter? Is there a junction box under the bottom cover to the trailer, or do I need to cut a hole in the floor of the passthrough? Does anyone have a Solarflex 400i that can show how the cables are routed?

2024 Cougar 25MLE

[jxnbbl]

Originally Posted by CougarLover

I know this thread has been done for a while, but I have a related question. I too am adding an inverter to my Solarflex 200, a Xantron 817-2000 inverter. My 2024 Cougar has a Keystone Giggy Box connection between the Batteries and the rest of the trailer electrical. My question is how do I connect the battery cables to the Xantron inverter? Is there a junction box under the bottom cover to the trailer, or do I need to cut a hole in the floor of the passthrough? Does anyone have a Solarflex 400i that can show how the cables are routed?

2024 Cougar 25MLE

You have to take the Gigibox out of the equation...nothing to do with the solar connection. You need to purchase 2/0 welding cables (more flexible), the proper size lugs (both for the cable and the connection holes). A 250 A DC fuse and a battery shutoff.


I assume for the 2024 Cougar 25MLE the inverter loop is in the 'front wall' of the pass thru. I mounted a piece of plywood on that wall that now holds my solar controller, shutoff, inverter and a junction box for all the electrical connections. The plywood is attached to the top aluminum frame and the pass thru floor.


The negative cable goes directly from the battery through a hole I drilled (sealed after) in the floor to the inverter. The positive cable goes from the battery to the fuse that is mounted next to my gigi box then to the shutoff near the inverter and then to the inverter.


Last I have two batteries...assuming you do too, the jumpers between them had to be upgraded to the 2/0 cable.

[jxnbbl]

Here is another thread on this topic that shows a few of the members projects. For some it is solar flex, in my case it was an add on and there are Xantrex specific info in there.


Good luck


Jay


https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=49279

[CougarLover]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

You have to take the Gigibox out of the equation...nothing to do with the solar connection. You need to purchase 2/0 welding cables (more flexible), the proper size lugs (both for the cable and the connection holes). A 250 A DC fuse and a battery shutoff.


I assume for the 2024 Cougar 25MLE the inverter loop is in the 'front wall' of the pass thru. I mounted a piece of plywood on that wall that now holds my solar controller, shutoff, inverter and a junction box for all the electrical connections. The plywood is attached to the top aluminum frame and the pass thru floor.


The negative cable goes directly from the battery through a hole I drilled (sealed after) in the floor to the inverter. The positive cable goes from the battery to the fuse that is mounted next to my gigi box then to the shutoff near the inverter and then to the inverter.


Last I have two batteries...assuming you do too, the jumpers between them had to be upgraded to the 2/0 cable.

Thank you jxnbbl. I was hoping not to drill a hole in the floor for this project. I may opt to install a lithium battery in the pass through and just run the 2/0 cables to it. I know I will have to also run smaller wires from the solar controller if I want to charge the battery. I would like to find a reliable picture of a 400i system to see how they configure it from the factory.
I like the idea of mounting a piece of plywood to the aluminum frame for mounting of the solar controller and inverter. There doesn't seem to be much in the front wall of the pass through to mount anything heavy to.

[jxnbbl]

Here is a video that depicts an "in storage" installation of the 400i


LINK


You should read the Q&A of - LINK


I think you said you have a 200i and then area asking about the 400i as there are components that need upgrading to get to that place.

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by CougarLover

Thank you jxnbbl. I was hoping not to drill a hole in the floor for this project. I may opt to install a lithium battery in the pass through and just run the 2/0 cables to it.

...

There doesn't seem to be much in the front wall of the pass through to mount anything heavy to.

Drilling a hole in the floor isn't so bad. You can seal it right up afterwards.

• Use a hole saw bit with your cordless drill. Pick the right size for your cabling.
• Use flex tubing to protect your wires. Zip ties to hold it in place.
• You'll need to slit the Darco fabric underneath your trailer (if you don't have Coroplast, I don't so can't help you there). THIS tape will work to patch up the Darco once you're done with your project: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
• https://www.lowes.com/pd/GREAT-STUFF...ion/1000683229 Use this foam when project done to seal the hole. Wear disposable gloves and eye protection! Trust me on this one.

This is what my battery bank/inverter installation project looked like under my trailer. BEFORE and AFTER pix attached. See, it's not that bad!

[CougarLover]

Ok, I finished my installation of the Xantrex inverter. This may not be the Cougar recommended way, but it worked well for me. I found a path between the frame that went down to the Darko fabric. I found the path by following the ground wire for the Solar controller. I was able to follow that path with my 2/0 wires and cut a hole in the Darko fabric to run the cables to the batteries. I also installed a Victron Smartshunt and a shutoff switch as recommended by others. I ordered premade cables from Amazon, a pair of 7' cables to the batteries and two pair of 3' cables. I made them a bit long as I didn't know how much I would need. (I only used the negative 3' cables) The 7' positive cable went directly to the battery.

After the installation was complete, I had to reattach the molding on the floor of the storage area and cut a small piece out of it for the cables I ran. I used foam sealant to seal the Darko fabric where the cable came through.

Hindsight.... I would have probably had the dealer install the 400i package, even though I really don't need the second solar panel. Also, I should have spent a little extra on the Victron 2000 inverter instead of the Xantrex. The Victron solar controller and smarthsunt have a really great bluetooth app that allows programming and alerts. The Victron inverter uses the same app and has bluetooth built into the device. The Xantrex only allows bluetooth with an optional remote controller that costs an additional $100.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by CougarLover

...

Hindsight.... I would have probably had the dealer install the 400i package, even though I really don't need the second solar panel.

...

Just for clarification, it is "extremely expensive" to attempt to modify a trailer with the SolarFlex 220 system into the SolarFlex 440i system"

While it is possible to change out air conditioners, circuit breakers and wiring that is installed at the factory, it is usually not practical to do so.

In your situation, it's too late, but for anyone following this thread and considering "upgrading from the 220 to the 440i after purchase, here's what Keystone says in the SolarFlex FAQ section:

Why can’t I build out my SolarFlex 200 to be like the SolarFlex 400i?

Keystone RVs with the SolarFlex 400i package have a second inverted loop, 120 Volt pre-wire to the primary roof A/C and a dedicated circuit breaker that isn’t included in the SolarFlex 200 package. While owners could technically add these items to the RV after purchase, it would be a rather large and expensive installation. While one can’t completely turn SolarFlex 200 into SolarFlex 400i, you can easily match the solar power collection by adding a second 200w panel, increase charging speed by upgrading to a 30 amp solar controller, and power your 110v outlets by adding a 2000 watt inverter. The only thing that is really missing would be the components necessary to run the RV’s air conditioner. Please see the “expand your system” section of the SolarFlex 200 page for a full list of upgrade options.
https://www.keystonerv.com/solar-faqs

So, for anyone considering a "stepped approach to get a SolarFlex 440i capability", it's significantly cheaper to order it from the factory than to attempt to install it at a later date.

[MrKABC]

Agree with @JRTJH, it ain't cheap to "improve" your Solarflex 200!

My 202QBWE came with the 200i package. Ordering a better package wasn't an option for me since my trailer was a leftover 2022 on clearance. The dealer wanted it gone and folded soon after.

The only remaining component of my 200i package is the lone 200w solar panel in the roof, and the crummy wiring from the rooftop gland to the solar controller in the basement.

• Replaced stock Victron 75/15 with Victron 100/50 MPPT
• Replaced stock charger with Victron 3000 Multiplus charger/inverter/transfer switch

Routing cables, Romex, wiring, other things like the BMV712 shunt and Multiplus control panel are cost and labor intensive.

Five LiPo batteries were $3500 or so. $360 or so for three more 200w solar panels, $1400 for Multiplus, $200 for shunt, $150 for control panel, $250 for the Lynx bus bar, $400 or so for Romex, cables, connectors, etc. $330 for the soft start capacitor. Probably more that I can't think of at the moment. Add in lots of elbow grease to the mix!

End result is arguably superior to the "stock" package in that all of my AC circuits run off the inverter, including the air conditioning and a great boondocking setup.

Worth it?? For me it was. For others? Maybe the 400i is a cheaper way to go. You decide!

[jxnbbl]

IMO



"The only thing that is really missing would be the components necessary to run the RV’s air conditioner"


Is a marketing gimmick...really your going to run the AC on a 400W system.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jxnbbl

IMO



"The only thing that is really missing would be the components necessary to run the RV’s air conditioner"


Is a marketing gimmick...really your going to run the AC on a 400W system.

The wiring for the "second inverter loop", the circuit breaker for the air conditioner (and wiring from the "inverter loop to the distribution panel") are also "missing in the 220 to 440i dealer upgrade".

I agree with you, it is a marketing gimmick. So is running an A/C with the 660i-L ($11,430) or the 1320i-L package ($18,930) Even with the 660's 270 AH battery or the 1320's 540 AH dual battery setup, you'd be hard pressed to run the overhead A/C to cool the coach for much more than an hour or so (lunch stop and by the time it got cool, lunch is over and the battery bank is dead).

My "best speculation" is that like LCD/LED TV's, when they first came out, a 40" Phillips was $2800, now a 75" Phillips is $588 at WalMart and cheaper when on sale. I'd suspect that as the RV solar technology becomes more common, the pricing will follow the "Flatscreen pricing" and become more affordable.

Right now, IMO, you get far too little "chew" from a stick of "far too expensive gum"....