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04-21-2019, 02:05 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Are all toilets this slow now?
We just got back from our inaugural trip in our 2019 Cougar. The experience we had with our brand new toilet is concerning.
When you step on the pedal to drop the contents, there's no discernable water flow from the rim. As you keep the pedal down, the flow slowly builds up over about five seconds until you get a trickle that just about wets the surface of the bowl. But nothing like what is needed to flush tissue or the like.
Are all today's RV toilets this weak, or is it just ours?
Our previous trailer was a 1999, made well back before the "green" jihad that imposed wimpy showerheads, low-flow toilets, and dim lightbulbs on us. It worked like a toilet ought to work. This one just doesn't.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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04-21-2019, 02:42 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,702
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No, they don't work like that. You should get plenty of water. What brand toilet is it? What is your water pressure? Do all the water faucets get good flow?
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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04-21-2019, 02:44 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,357
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It is NOT normal. I’m willing to bet some construction debris is caught. Find where the supply line attaches. Relieve system pressure by opening the bathroom faucet. Some water will still drip when you take the supply line loose. There is a screen in the fitting in the toilet and I’d bet it’s got a bunch of junk in it.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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04-21-2019, 04:45 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Thanks for the tip about the intake screen. After much sweating and grunting trying to remove the intake fitting without first removing the two invisible screws that the manual insists do not actually exist, we got this collection of sludge out of the screen. Looks like more leftover styrofoam from the construction process.
Now the toilet works like a champ, every bit as efficient as our previous one.
After our recent trip, we had to vacuum significant quantities of sawdust out of the top of the pantry, the under-TV cabinets, the bathroom floor, and every one of the closet areas. We also had to screw one of the speakers back into the ceiling when we got home. We had the rig into the shop earlier for an inoperative furnace; the sail switch had been fouled by sawdust and styro chips. I'm beginning to believe Keystone's motto should be, "Buy the finished trailer, and get all the leftovers at no extra charge!"
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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05-15-2019, 09:08 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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I had a thought yesterday -- is the shower faucet assembly likely to have one of these screens on it as well? That might explain some of the poor shower performance we've encountered. I don't want to take it apart unless there's a good chance of it having a screen in it. Thanks.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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05-16-2019, 06:39 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 503
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Hi,
I have to clean out that same screen on my TT at least once a year.
Material looks exactly the same as stuff I flush out of the hot water heater when I winterize. Appears to be anode breaking down.
Crazy part is how does this material get from hot water tank to the cold water supply line to the toilet?
Lee
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Lee & Christie
1970 F250 Highboy 4x4
2013 Cougar 21RBSWE
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05-16-2019, 10:53 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Pretty sure it's construction debris. Not reasonable to assume this is anode degradation on a rig that was less than six months old and had the electric HW heater running for less than four weeks of that period (plus, as you say, the cold leg crossover dilemma).
Still interested in knowing if I would be likely to find one of these intake screens in my shower feed...?
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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08-01-2019, 02:44 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Last night we "camped" with the grandkid in the RV in our driveway (since our new truck won't activate the trailer brakes, forcing us to cancel the actual camping trip we had planned). Absolutely no flow to the toilet. (Luckily for the wee one, an actual toilet was just across the driveway.)
So this morning I was back on the floor disassembling the intake valve. Plugged to the brim with gray sludge again. Cleaned it out with a screwdriver and a Q-tip. Just for kicks, found an old fitting and some soft tubing in our Big Box o' Crap, and with some electrical tape, cobbled together a hose that would let us blow out the feed line into the shower drain without leaking much (image). Yuk! Got plenty more out that would have ended up in the screen yet again. You'd think I was filling my fresh tank from the Mississippi. (In fact, it's been filled once, at the dealer, on delivery day, and just used ever since.)
I thought to check the faucet aerator on the bathroom sink to see if any sludge had backed up behind it as well, and it was pristine. However, I did notice some weird water delivery behavior ( short video), where the hot faucet delivered at quite a nice clip, while the cold faucet delivered at the same anemic crawl I get from the kitchen faucet and the shower hose.
I don't understand much about RV plumbing, but I'd sure like to get them all running that aggressively, and given the "silt problem" I've been having with the toilet, I'm wondering if there may be some other debris filters somewhere that are causing this flow reduction. I'm especially puzzled to see different behavior from two faucets on the same fixture, which I would expect to share the same filter and the same flow-reducer.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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08-01-2019, 04:23 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,702
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Are you in the drive using the water tank or city water inlet? If the tank, have you tried the city water intake? Sounds to me like your water tank was left open to a ton of debris and it's clogging everything up. If using the tank have you tried to just fill it and dump it a couple of times? It may clog the drain nozzle but you could unscrew it and keep pushing a rod or something up into the tank to relieve the clogs if they continue. I'm thinking from looking at that you're going to have to pull all the fixtures (that don't work) and go thru them unfortunately. Wishing you the best.
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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08-01-2019, 04:28 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Good catch. We usually use city water on trips, except when physically on the road, but we were using the pump most recently. And it never dawned on me that city water doesn't touch the tank. I'll give it a flush tonight. Thank you!
I still don't understand how one side of the same faucet can flow lots and the other flow slowly. If there is stoppage in the actual tubing, I don't know how I would handle that. The clamps I saw on the toilet weren't like anything I was familiar with, looked like they had to be cut off and needed special crimpers to replace.
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2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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08-01-2019, 04:40 PM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,702
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Each valve in a 2 handle faucet is independent and dictates the flow of water for that valve. Judging by what I've seen in your posts you very well may have crud in one of the valves.
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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08-01-2019, 05:09 PM
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#12
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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Do you have a strainer on your water pump?
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Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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08-01-2019, 06:14 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
Do you have a strainer on your water pump?
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Do Cougars come with them? I haven't modified the pump. Given how often I've had to clean the toilet intake, if there is one, it's not very good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
Each valve in a 2 handle faucet is independent and dictates the flow of water for that valve. Judging by what I've seen in your posts you very well may have crud in one of the valves.
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To followup on that, I attempted to clean the cold water valve in the video. When I got under the handle, I realized that the valve doesn't come out separately, I have to take out the whole faucet and filler assembly, and possibly just reverse flush it.
It looks straightforward, but the black fittings in the photo are tighter than Jack Benny. With my fingers, they just aren't budging. I'm reluctant to take a wrench to a plastic fitting, plus I'd need a sink wrench anyway because there's no room to swing anything.
They're just standard female fittings that should unscrew, right? No surprises like LH thread or anything? If so, I'll just work with my fingers until I beat it, though I have no idea how I will ever get them back on that tightly.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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08-01-2019, 07:54 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Lake Stevens
Posts: 764
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__________________
2019 Laredo 225MK for travel. Bighorn 3575el summer home in Washington, Park Model with Arizona Room for winters.
2015 RAM 3500 SRW CC SB Aisin Laramie
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08-01-2019, 08:26 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven
Good catch. We usually use city water on trips, except when physically on the road, but we were using the pump most recently. And it never dawned on me that city water doesn't touch the tank. I'll give it a flush tonight. Thank you!
I still don't understand how one side of the same faucet can flow lots and the other flow slowly. If there is stoppage in the actual tubing, I don't know how I would handle that. The clamps I saw on the toilet weren't like anything I was familiar with, looked like they had to be cut off and needed special crimpers to replace.
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Your plumbing in the rig is PEX pipe, and those clamps are what keeps the fittings and connections attached and also keeps them from leaking. The fittings and other parts have a barbed connection that is pushed into the end of the pipe and a special tool is used to crimp the stainless steel band.
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Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
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08-02-2019, 05:10 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,998
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For the amount of use most RV owners would require, you can buy a faucet wrench at Harbor Freight: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-inc...nch-91958.html Cost is $5.99, but with the "ever-present 20% off coupon" the cost is only $4.79 (and you get a "free LED light).....
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John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-02-2019, 06:22 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven
I had a thought yesterday -- is the shower faucet assembly likely to have one of these screens on it as well? That might explain some of the poor shower performance we've encountered. I don't want to take it apart unless there's a good chance of it having a screen in it. Thanks.
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Shower has a screen as well as all the faucets just like at home. If you had the toilet inlet screen full of crud, time to go hunting screens!
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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08-02-2019, 06:25 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
For the amount of use most RV owners would require, you can buy a faucet wrench at Harbor Freight: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-inc...nch-91958.html Cost is $5.99, but with the "ever-present 20% off coupon" the cost is only $4.79 (and you get a "free LED light).....
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I hired a plumber awhile back to install a new kitchen sink faucet in our home. Our sink is one piece molded to the counter top (Corian I think it is called) and couldn't figure out how to get my fat fingers up behind the deep sink back. Plumber used one of those gizmos and I was stunned. Would have saved me a couple hundred bucks if I had seen this post!
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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08-02-2019, 09:11 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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I've got a sink wrench... if the fittings were metal, I would have used it without a second thought, but if I chew up or even break these plastic fittings with a metal tool, I'm in deep kimchee, because I don't have whatever it takes to replace them.
I don't think my pump has a filter. It's real hard to tell, since it's in a tight compartment and Keystone pretty much buried it under all the leveler wiring. However, I did verify that I get the same flow behavior from the city water feed, so a water pump filter wouldn't be causing this (unless it's also inline with the city water).
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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08-02-2019, 10:28 AM
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#20
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,998
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If you have the same flow rate from the city water connection and the water pump, then the pump (or pump clogging) is not your problem, although trash being picked up by the pump from the fresh water tank may well be the source of all your problems. I'd suspect the faucet screen/diffuser and/or the cold/hot water valves in the handles. Even the ceramic valves can clog, although not as easily as the old "rubber/brass seat valves".
If you have a FloJet pump, you probably have "clip lock connections" and if you have a ShurFlo pump, you probably have threaded connections on your pump housing. You'll need to verify which type of connection you have before ordering a strainer for the pump inlet (from the fresh water tank). Depending on the connectors on your pump, the strainer can be as inexpensive as $10 or as much as $20. At any price, it's worth it to avoid what you're currently experiencing.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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