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Old 07-15-2020, 04:43 PM   #41
Gegrad
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Originally Posted by Timmybish View Post

Does anyone know why they make "west" trailers and "east" trailers? none of the dealerships here have had a clue. The speculated maybe due to high altitudes they may have different gas orifices or maybe different materials due to heat but they really were not sure.
So the keystone website has said in the past that the "west" models were supposed to have larger tanks and more efficient lighting for extended boondocking, thinking there were fewer parks with connections out west. None of the models I ever looked at and compared had different size tanks though, so I do not know what the real difference is.

Regarding slides, for all the cheapness that goes into these trailers sometimes, it does seem that aside from the rubber wipes needing periodic replacement, they actually seem to have spent the $$ to make strong, reliable slides *knocking on wood*. I guess this is because they are so front and center and used so often Keystone (and others) would have a real problem if they built the slide units very poorly. Easy to hide behind a falling trim piece that falls off because it was attached with 2 brads, or blame your customers for failure to maintain their roof when the darco leaks from below and rots floors, or the cheap factory tires blow out. Not so easy to do if the slides bonk out in the first 2 months. So my experience has been that the slides are generally the MOST reliable piece of the trailer. I have had to fix/repair all kinds of different issues over my 6 years of ownership, but the only thing I have ever had to do to my slides was replace the wipes.
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:28 PM   #42
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Thats even more reassuring.

It is amazing to walk around and look at the build quality. For example why does every single brand in the industry use a metal household junction bow thats not water tight! they literarily make waterproof junction boxes for trailers that are light and cheap. I just shake my head. I just think, if they can't spend a dollar more here.. where else are they cutting corners.

I was surprised though at one dealership we had a pretty cool sales guy that didn't try and lie.. he said I was one of the only people this year that he has shown a trailer to that climbed underneath to look at how the plumbing, and underbelly was built. He said most people now just look at the pretty inside and buy with no care. He said there is no push from dealers to push back on the manufactures for sending them garbage, because they can't keep their floors stocked to sell. He then pointed out back to a sea of almost new trailers, and said those are all "warrantee" works that will be there for months as they argue with the manufacturer about it. He said its sad because consumers get them out and the first year they find missing pex connectors, pinched and shorted wires when the walls are put in, loose bolts, loose trim, all things that could have been fixed by slowing down the production and increasing quality control.
We even looked at the Montanas as kind of a joke just because they are insanely huge and $$$$$ and even there it was the same build! Maybe some day the consumers and dealers can revolt and demand quality from the start!
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:39 PM   #43
sourdough
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Originally Posted by Timmybish View Post
Thats even more reassuring.

It is amazing to walk around and look at the build quality. For example why does every single brand in the industry use a metal household junction bow thats not water tight! they literarily make waterproof junction boxes for trailers that are light and cheap. I just shake my head. I just think, if they can't spend a dollar more here.. where else are they cutting corners.

I was surprised though at one dealership we had a pretty cool sales guy that didn't try and lie.. he said I was one of the only people this year that he has shown a trailer to that climbed underneath to look at how the plumbing, and underbelly was built. He said most people now just look at the pretty inside and buy with no care. He said there is no push from dealers to push back on the manufactures for sending them garbage, because they can't keep their floors stocked to sell. He then pointed out back to a sea of almost new trailers, and said those are all "warrantee" works that will be there for months as they argue with the manufacturer about it. He said its sad because consumers get them out and the first year they find missing pex connectors, pinched and shorted wires when the walls are put in, loose bolts, loose trim, all things that could have been fixed by slowing down the production and increasing quality control.
We even looked at the Montanas as kind of a joke just because they are insanely huge and $$$$$ and even there it was the same build! Maybe some day the consumers and dealers can revolt and demand quality from the start!

This conversation, and observations, have been made by uncountable numbers of people....and they buy the RVs. So fast in fact that they can't build them fast enough for demand; and many, if not most, already know the situation they will face. If you want an RV you have to mentally decide if you are cut out to accept those facts (you will not change an extremely successful business model).

Look them over; up, down, under, over. They will all be the same. Figure out which one fits your needs, find THAT trailer and use the fine tooth comb again. Then you either pull the trigger or not and hope for the best, expect the worst and have a complete tool box.
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:42 PM   #44
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Keystone has actually been stepping up a little bit, at least with regards to the 2017-19 Bullet trailers. Several people on here have reported over the last year or so that their units have been successfully returned to Indiana for complete floor replacement, after a rash of defects led to tons of rotted floors on nearly new trailers. And word is they have a new material for underneath, and the old Darco that would get pinprick hols and allow water to seep up in is gone. I have not looked at a new unit in some time, but that's what I have heard around here.
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Old 07-15-2020, 07:08 PM   #45
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yeah that is my hope..

the springdale we looked at a few places seemed to be a step up from other same floor plans... and at a decent price.. has me scratching my head about if it is too good to be true or not. But the more I search it seems like it is a very under spoke about sub brand. I'm hoping it is a hidden gem
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Old 07-19-2020, 10:08 AM   #46
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We have a 2019 Springdale. There is good and bad to it. Here are a few of the disappointing things I can think of.
The darco tarp is all that is above the tires for protection. No metal or plastic wheel wells.
The entry door is tiny, about 4" narrower and much shorter than our trade in.
The interior cupboard framing is not wood. It is a paper like product covered in a thin imitation wood plastic. It is not holding up well. The only real wood I have found is the cupboard and closet door fronts. The drawer fronts are not. The drawerbases and sides are plywood.
The bathroom door is plastic covered as well. It is a mess on the edges from wear and tear.
The toilet is horrible cheap and creaky.
The slide floor is darco covered as well. I insisted on slide ski's before I would pick it up as it was tearing already.
The floor creaks like an old house I suspect they missed the joists with a lot of staples.
There is a lot that I like as well, its not all bad. A lot of problems with trim and other stuff just need more care during assembly.
Good luck in your search.
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:04 AM   #47
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I have a 2013 Springdale Summerland 26 foot with bunks, and I LOVE it. My only complaint is the lack of drawers - not a single one in the camper. Great layout, comfy and solid.
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Old 07-19-2020, 02:39 PM   #48
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Just a comment about having a trailer with no slides. Last year we had mice visit our trailer. The point of entry could have been where the slide out rails go into the trailer. You could see wiring through the gap between the rail and the entry point. Discovered that our neighbor had a major mouse problem. You could see the same entry point in their trailer slide out. No slide out reduces the number of entry points for rodents. Just sayin.
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Old 07-19-2020, 07:03 PM   #49
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Hi Tim. Welcome to the forum. Sorry I'm a bit late getting on board here, but like "LadyFaire" I too pull a Springdale 260tb and really like it. It has the bunks and no slides. The GVWR on it is 7525 lbs. and I pull it with an f150 and have about 600 lbs. to spare. It has a queen bed but needed a memory foam topper to actually get any sleep on it. I find it quite cheaply made overall but at the same time, it's tight, it doesn't squeak or rattle, it tows beautifully behind my truck and all the appliances work perfectly. My last setup was an f350 with an Okanagan 5ver which was actually more comfortable but heavier and a bit of a dog to tow around. Like others have said, find a good dealer and you'll be happy with your Springdale. - Roy
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