Ford and Gm onboard scales

[jasin1]

saw a youtube video that came out today that Ford and Gm will deny warranty for people that are over the trucks gvwr or payload…couldn’t find anything else other then the Ford truck enthusiast forum..maybe probably just rumors but it is interesting and definitely possible with your onboard computer storing all the info.

probably just a youtuber trying to get views but who knows

edit ..i did see where if you have the factory ram air suspension it will throw a cel light if overloaded and the airbags will stop trying to level the load

my apologies in advance to wiredgeorge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc313TkfzEY

[wiredgeorge]

Not sure which of the tech additions are options and which are standard equipment...

This article says: "The 2023 Ford Super Duty also adds some key features that folks have been loving with the newest F-150s. Among these is Pro Power Onboard, which will offer up to 2.0 kilowatts of exportable power. The Super Duty also adds Onboard Scales with Smart Hitch and Pro Trailer Hitch Assist. Oh, and while it’s not tech, the Super Duty is getting its own super-sweet Max Recline Seats."

https://thenewswheel.com/2023-ford-super-duty-photos/

Really a great video and the guy talking made real points; I suspect given the level of sophistication of the heavy duty vehicles that this weight info may potentially go to the truck's computer and people may eventually end up on limp mode or the truck disabled until they unhitch. Not possible? Dunno. Thanks Brian for this one.

[sourdough]

As we see frequently the "little black boxes", ie onboard computers, are now used for all kinds of tracking. In the case of these onboard "scales", although touted as a wonderful convenience for the buyer, I have NO doubt they will be used in the fashion mentioned along with other situations. When they pull the onboard computers to tell how fast a vehicle was going at a crash, when the brakes were applied etc. I can only imagine how this info will be used to "help" the owner.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by sourdough

As we see frequently the "little black boxes", ie onboard computers, are now used for all kinds of tracking. In the case of these onboard "scales", although touted as a wonderful convenience for the buyer, I have NO doubt they will be used in the fashion mentioned along with other situations. When they pull the onboard computers to tell how fast a vehicle was going at a crash, when the brakes were applied etc. I can only imagine how this info will be used to "help" the owner.

I completely agree, this isn’t being done for the owner. On the bright side, maybe people will start buying enough truck, and the days of the 3/4 ton diesel pulling the 42’ fifth wheel will come to a close.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by jfk69

I completely agree, this isn’t being done for the owner. On the bright side, maybe people will start buying enough truck, and the days of the 3/4 ton diesel pulling the 42’ fifth wheel will come to a close.

If "your" (not meaning YOU) current truck is about or paid off, That trend wont end.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If "your" (not meaning YOU) current truck is about or paid off, That trend wont end.

No worries!! Just go buy a new Ram!!

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

If "your" (not meaning YOU) current truck is about or paid off, That trend wont end.

True. Not in the short run but in the long game it should. Also in theory adds value to older rigs. A blessing and a curse lol.

[NH_Bulldog]

A manufacturer denying a warranty due to exceeding payload is an overly broad and inaccurate statement. By law, a manufacturer must prove that a particular failure is a direct result of an excluded action as outlined in the vehicle warranty. The law also states that any vague, unclear or ambiguous language in the warranty will favor the consumer.

So now the real question is; does anyone have one of these vehicles and has anyone read the warranty to see if it specifically states that exceeding payload will void the warranty?

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

A manufacturer denying a warranty due to exceeding payload is an overly broad and inaccurate statement. By law, a manufacturer must prove that a particular failure is a direct result of an excluded action as outlined in the vehicle warranty. The law also states that any vague, unclear or ambiguous language in the warranty will favor the consumer.

So now the real question is; does anyone have one of these vehicles and has anyone read the warranty to see if it specifically states that exceeding payload will void the warranty?

this is straight from the 2023 gmc HD owners manual on Gmc website

[jasin1]

this is from Ford super duty warranty book 2023

don’t think it will be hard for ford or gm to prove overloading caused damage..either by springs being worn out or axle failure ..but certainly when they have the onboard scale they will have a cel light to prove it

[NH_Bulldog]

Yes, that’s the kind of language I was referring to. But the same disclaimer language has always been there and is not new to the vehicles with an onboard scale.

The fact remains that a manufacturer would have to prove that an overloading condition directly and unequivocally caused the warranty failure.

If you had a load of bricks set in the bed of the truck then got in to check the scale and saw that you were over-capacity, then drove off any way, only to have your rear differential leak oil, they would have to prove that the gasket leaked as a direct result of the extra bricks in order to deny your warranty. Is one time over capacity enough to trigger a voided warranty? Twice? Ten times?

Aside from not buying a truck with the onboard scales, the simplest way to avoid an issue is to know your trucks limits and not exceed them. For 98% of us it will never be a problem, but there is always “that guy”.

[Badbart56]

....driving over curbs....interesting.

[NH_Bulldog]

But you can go off-roading with it over the hills, through the woods, mud, sand and rivers, but stay away from that curb lol

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

....driving over curbs....interesting.

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

But you can go off-roading with it over the hills, through the woods, mud, sand and rivers, but stay away from that curb lol

is kind of a weird stipulation but i guess 99.5% of four wheel vehicles never see dirt…the majority of damage is in a mall parking lot…suspension damage and differential damage possibly lol

[Max23]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Yes, that’s the kind of language I was referring to. But the same disclaimer language has always been there and is not new to the vehicles with an onboard scale.

The fact remains that a manufacturer would have to prove that an overloading condition directly and unequivocally caused the warranty failure.

If you had a load of bricks set in the bed of the truck then got in to check the scale and saw that you were over-capacity, then drove off any way, only to have your rear differential leak oil, they would have to prove that the gasket leaked as a direct result of the extra bricks in order to deny your warranty. Is one time over capacity enough to trigger a voided warranty? Twice? Ten times?

Aside from not buying a truck with the onboard scales, the simplest way to avoid an issue is to know your trucks limits and not exceed them. For 98% of us it will never be a problem, but there is always “that guy”.

I seem to have to agree with this. "that guy" scenario. Looks to me as if the majority "if not all" of the people on here know how to operate and not go beyond the limits of their TV. Therefore, if having these stipulations within the warranty will somehow help keep cost of vehicle down or in any way help the "informed" people, do I care if "that guy" doesn't get his warranty claim upheld?? Not sure it will help any of us, however, that is something none of us will ever know either.

[sourdough]

The difference between "off roading" (which by the way will void warranty on parts affected by zealous activity), "hitting a curb" and being overloaded is that the on board computer is going to tell them exactly that. I highly doubt it will be the owner telling the dealer they are going to make "whatever" repairs under warranty unless they can prove the overloaded condition caused it. The scenario will be the warranty repairs are denied because the truck shows to have been overloaded....case closed. This is assuming that the damage is something that overloading would cause. Best case might be if the dealer told the owner they "might" cover it if HE could prove it wasn't overloading that caused it. With the computer evidence it will be on the customer to prove otherwise, not the dealer.

[JRTJH]

All you need to do is read the "warranty denied" threads on this forum to see that the manufacturer can (and often will) deny a warranty claim, even if the owner feels it is not fair or a correct decision.

The recourse for the owner ???? Once the manufacturer uses "their onboard scale weights" to deny a claim, at that time, it more or less falls on the owner to "prove the manufacturer's decision is wrong". That process, as outlined in numerous threads on this forum, can fall somewhere between difficult and impossible for the owner. The result, even if it is overturned, can cost the owner in time, legal expenses, significant inconvenience while the vehicle is "down for repairs" and/or just a big damn hassle to deal with. All of which can be avoided by not exceeding the "onboard scale trigger". In other words, by not abusing/overloading the vehicle (or running over curbs)...

The owner can plead with the dealership to resubmit with additional information, asking for reconsideration. Other than that, it's pretty much, hire a lawyer and sue or appeal the decision to some "government fairness/oversight board" for them to follow up for the owner.

I don't think we're really "overly worried" about the $100 rear axle oil leak repair. What owner would spend $10K in legal fees to prove that point????? Where it becomes a "hard pill to swallow" is the denial of a $8-10K transmission rebuild/replacement or a engine rebuild that could easily exceed that amount. Even with those types of expensive repairs, the expenses would very likely exceed the cost to "just suck it up and pay for the repairs yourself. Sure, there's clauses in some suits that require the manufacturer to pay legal fees if the owner succeeds in winning the process, but often that is up to the court and is not always a guaranteed reimbursement, so even winning the battle may still mean losing the war.

Why would Ford, GM or Fiat/Chrysler be any different in "warranty reconsideration after denial" than what we see with Keystone ?????

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Why would Ford, GM or Fiat/Chrysler be any different in "warranty reconsideration after denial" than what we see with Keystone ?????

This is 100% correct. They will not be any different. A slightly different issue, but same recourse/ result. Our son has a 2018 F-150 5.0L engine. It is one of those that has an “excessive oil consumption” problem. Ford’s original try at a fix was to reflash the computer and put a new dipstick in. That did not solve the issue. Their next try is to replace the engine block. However, we have to pay to have the engine torn down by Ford and prove there is not another issue causing the excessive oil usage. Cost to tear engine down and be looked at? I was quoted $4000. That does not include putting said engine back together if they decide to not cover it. Ford also would not give me any statistics on how often when people have had Ford tear down the engine, they will decide to live up to their promise of putting a new block in.

I cannot see any different outcome for a “he said, Ford says” issue involving truck problems when a vehicle was overloaded, as will be documented by the on-board weighing computer memory. And, to be fair that I’m not just picking on Ford, Dodge wouldn’t cover a block crack in 2500 Cummins engine blocks when they were still under the original warranty. We can’t expect a different outcome now, 20- some years later.

[jasin1]

this posted today…it’s a ford lightning which is irrelevant because he is not towing the fifth wheel with it, but it shows how the ford onboard scale works.
Interesting how accurate it is, when the driver gets into the truck it deducts the weight of the driver from the payload.
i don’t know if this onboard scale uses a different algorithm for electric vehicle payload or if it is standard across the ford truck line with just adjustments to fuel mileage.

i can’t see this having a good outcome for warranty powertrain claims by truck owners if they regularly haul above their payload capacity…also maybe it will go into limp mode to protect the truck? (and the dealer) from warranty issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE4dJxjvHg

[Fish-a-Palooza]

Originally Posted by jasin1

this posted today…it’s a ford lightning which is irrelevant because he is not towing the fifth wheel with it, but it shows how the ford onboard scale works.
Interesting how accurate it is, when the driver gets into the truck it deducts the weight of the driver from the payload.
i don’t know if this onboard scale uses a different algorithm for electric vehicle payload or if it is standard across the ford truck line with just adjustments to fuel mileage.

i can’t see this having a good outcome for warranty powertrain claims by truck owners if they regularly haul above their payload capacity…also maybe it will go into limp mode to protect the truck? (and the dealer) from warranty issues

You seem to imply, claims will be denied if you regularly haul above payload capacity. I would bet claims would be denied if you ever haul above payload capacities.

Seems to me this is a very good thing for the owner towing, instead of relying on what the salesman said the tow vehicle could do to make a sale.

Do insurance companies now deny claims if you're in an accident and cat scales show you were outside of the tow vehicles tow/haul/payload capacities.