Tow vehicle issues

[Mike1056]

So my GAWR F is 6000 and R is 6040.
The Pin weight of my 5th wheel is 2300 with my payload at 3160.
The published towing capacity of my truck is 19680.
I had very little squat before putting the airbag system on. I added them because it didnt feel comfortable when hitting frost lines at bridges and bigger bumps in the road.

So I think I have enough truck. I do have a lube plate on the 5th wheel.
I will go over the hitch tonight and make sure everything is tight.

Thanks again for all the help!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Mike1056

So my GAWR F is 6000 and R is 6040.
The Pin weight of my 5th wheel is 2300 with my payload at 3160.
The published towing capacity of my truck is 19680.
I had very little squat before putting the airbag system on. I added them because it didnt feel comfortable when hitting frost lines at bridges and bigger bumps in the road.

So I think I have enough truck. I do have a lube plate on the 5th wheel.
I will go over the hitch tonight and make sure everything is tight.

Thanks again for all the help!

You are falling into the trap of reading brochures. The pin weight for a 14K gross weight 5th wheel is north of 3000 lbs. As has been noted by several experienced members, the "published towing capacity" is not a real number but a marketing number was made using a flatbed trailer with blocks on it on a closed course and not a big wind-sail 5th wheel. The pin weight you are quoting is also a marketing ploy. It is for the trailer as it left the factory without any options or tanks or well... anything in it.

The usual way to estimate pin weight is to take 23 percent of the trailer GROSS weight and this will be much closer to reality. Of course, you can take your loaded camper and pickup to a scale but with a 3160 lb payload (not bad for a 3/4 ton and hopefully the number you found on your PAYLOAD placard on the door frame), you still have to account for passengers, hitch and other stuff in the truck. Your estimiated pin weight is north o 3000 lbs and with the hitch, passengers and stuff your truck is overloaded.

Take it to a scale and confirm but this is the reality. Airbags may level but the weight must be added so they actually decrease your payload. You are in one ton land with that camper.

[jsb5717]

Originally Posted by Mike1056

So my GAWR F is 6000 and R is 6040.
The Pin weight of my 5th wheel is 2300 with my payload at 3160.
The published towing capacity of my truck is 19680.
I had very little squat before putting the airbag system on. I added them because it didnt feel comfortable when hitting frost lines at bridges and bigger bumps in the road.

So I think I have enough truck. I do have a lube plate on the 5th wheel.
I will go over the hitch tonight and make sure everything is tight.

Thanks again for all the help!

The numbers can be confusing and those who sell trucks and trailers are not held accountable (as they should be) for properly representing the numbers. As a result it doesn't look like you're seeing the numbers correctly.

Look inside your driver door and look at the yellow sticker. It will say something like "Total cargo and passengers not to exeed xxxx lbs" That number is your payload. That's the total weight your truck is rated to carry.

The published pin weight of your trailer also isn't real-life accurate. Figure 23% of your trailer's GVWR. Add to that your total weight for people, hitch, cargo. All of those numbers should total less than your trucks payload...it's probably a bit more.

Not trying to beat a dead horse but it's important to as least understand and be aware of what you're hauling down the road. In reality you likely don't have enough truck. It will probably feel fine towing your trailer...it will certainly manage the tow weight easily. Will it safely handle the trailer in an emergency situation? It's important to know...

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by RollaMo

Are you sure?


Looking at the B&W Companion "Slider" the actual head looks to be the same as the regular companion.
I am using the regular companion with a lube plate.

I said with an AUTO SLIDER, I know a lube plate will work with a pin box that isn’t using a capture plate.

[notanlines]

Google is where the cargo capacity came from, not the door plate:
"People also ask:
How much weight can a Dodge Ram 2500 diesel carry in the bed?
Payload Capacity of the 2021 RAM 2500

The 6.7-liter Cummins® Diesel engine can carry up to 3,160 pounds while the 6/4-liter HEMI® engine shines with a payload capacity of 4,010 pounds. Aug 16, 2021"

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Mike1056

So my GAWR F is 6000 and R is 6040.
The Pin weight of my 5th wheel is 2300 with my payload at 3160.
The published towing capacity of my truck is 19680.
I had very little squat before putting the airbag system on. I added them because it didnt feel comfortable when hitting frost lines at bridges and bigger bumps in the road.

So I think I have enough truck. I do have a lube plate on the 5th wheel.
I will go over the hitch tonight and make sure everything is tight.

Thanks again for all the help!

So I think I have enough truck. I do have a lube plate on the 5th wheel.
I will go over the hitch tonight and make sure everything is tight.

Thanks again for all the help![/QUOTE]

Mike - welcome to the forum.

Not piling on, and not saying you are necessarily overloaded, but I've been in the same situation you are potentially in so wanted to jump in.

If that 3,160 did in fact come from an online source or brochure, it unfortunately applies to the manufacturer's lightest (read: stripped down) base model version of the truck. It does not apply across the board to all 2500's.

Your truck's actual payload is calculated as it's GVWR (the max it can weigh), minus what is does weigh. When your truck rolled off the line it was weighed. This weight (allowing for a full tank fuel) was subtracted from the truck's GVWR, giving you the 'cargo carrying capacity' (payload) value that is printed on the yellow/white 'Tire & Loading' sticker on the driver's side door pillar. A second sticker, listing your truck's GVWR is also on the pillar - I'm guessing it is 10K.

It's not uncommon for many 3/4 ton diesels to be in the 2100 - 2500 lb payload range. Also keep in mind that any accessories you may have added after the truck left the factory (tonneau cover, toolbox etc.) changes the truck's curb weight and therefore impacts how much payload capacity you have.

Your best bet to determine where you stand is to fill up the tank, load the truck up for camping, including the hitch, gear and people and weigh the truck at the local CAT scale. Subtract this weight from the truck's GVWR. This is what you have left to support the weight of the 5th wheel's pin.

[sourdough]

Mike (OP) I know all this is not what you wanted to hear but it IS important to understand how it works, after that it's your decision.

You need to look at that yellow/white/black sticker inside the door that tells you what your payload/carrying capacity is on YOUR truck, not in a brochure or website...because it won't be that. Those numbers are there to sell trucks to unsuspecting buyers. Example; my 3/4 ton Ram Big Horn 6.4L GAS engine had a 3090 payload (maybe 3190?). That wouldn't be enough for your trailer and your truck with the diesel will probably fall into the 2400lb.? range - not nearly 3160. You owe it to yourself and family for your safety to be aware of those numbers. Post back when you get it. No one here is trying to "zing" you, nearly all of us have been there before. Anyway, we've got to figure out that "clunking" problem.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Mike (OP) I know all this is not what you wanted to hear but it IS important to understand how it works, after that it's your decision.

You need to look at that yellow/white/black sticker inside the door that tells you what your payload/carrying capacity is on YOUR truck, not in a brochure or website...because it won't be that. Those numbers are there to sell trucks to unsuspecting buyers. Example; my 3/4 ton Ram Big Horn 6.4L GAS engine had a 3090 payload (maybe 3190?). That wouldn't be enough for your trailer and your truck with the diesel will probably fall into the 2400lb.? range - not nearly 3160. You owe it to yourself and family for your safety to be aware of those numbers. Post back when you get it. No one here is trying to "zing" you, nearly all of us have been there before. Anyway, we've got to figure out that "clunking" problem.

I already posted a picture of the payload placard and was greeted with a google number and talk of brochures. If the OP is looking for help with this tow vehcile he certainly isn't taking the help seriously. OP; I am done trying. OUT

[rhagfo]

Well here is some information that fits your current rig more closely.
Please we are trying to help you understand what you really need to pay attention to.
I pulled the 5er in my signature for a couple years with a 2001 Ram 2500 CTD, it did OK, but not like I feel with our 3500 DRW.

These are the Numbers for your 5er;
Length 39' 4"
Dry Weight 11,280#
Payload Capacity 2,720#
GVWR 14,000#
Hitch Weight (Dry) 2,400#

Lets assume that you only carry about 1,200# of stuff in the 5er when camping. That puts your weight at 12,480# and 22% of that is 2,745#.

Now I went out and found some more accurate numbers for your Ram 2500.

Theses numbers are for a Big Horn, could not find numbers for a limited.
GVWR 10,000#
Max Payload 2,050#
Base weight 7,955#
Front 4,894#
Rear 3,060#
Axle Ratings;
Front 6,000#
Rear 6,040#
Max Trailer 15,700#

So you start out about 200# over GVWR before anyone more than a 150# driver is in the truck. Hitch is likely about 200# +/-, passengers, air bags, and anything else you have added to you truck take you deeper in to negative payload.

on another point rear axle rating is 6,040# base rear axle weight is 3,060# leaving 2,980# before you are exceeding the rear axle rating. That less the 2,745# estimated hitch weight leaves 235# before you exceed the axle rating.

I really believe you need to find a local scale, and get three weights, Front truck axle weight, rear axle weight, and 5er axle weights.

I could care less if you exceed GVWR, that is your decision, but exceeding axle rating is just plain reckless!

[G Giroux]

My 2c: I have a Cougar 327 RES (11,600 lbs), TV Ford F250 Super Duty (gaser). From day one TV has has sloop in the drive train, loaded or empty. Ford tells me it is the slip-yoke, they grease it all is good for a little while then it comes back.
I also have a Husky, 16k, articulated 5th wheel, it has sloop also. So my fix was a slow take off. I do not view it significant enough to warrant switching to a hybrid shock absorbing pin box. Enjoy, drive safely.

[wegone]

Just wanted to say as one who was, and still, pretty green of this subject, you guys are going above bard in trying to help, and in no way do I see any piling on, heck no, just the opposite.

On a personal note I tried to help a buddy by explain this very subject as he was buying a trailer and truck as he was heading to retirement.

I did what I could, but the salesman won out.

He is deep into a new (used) rig that has already had to have 7k of repairs to the tranny, and traveling down the road is no fun for him.

The truck ducks out on power on hills, he turns off accessories, and he hates tow/haul on downhill grades because his transmission cranks up to almost redline and whines louder that his wife who asking him, "WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO THEM?"

This is supposed to be fun folks, and if it ain't safe, it won't be fun....
We have enough crud on our minds when traveling like gas prices and drunks at the campground, we don't need more because we tried to get more for less...

OK, back to letting the guru's share again

[Greg1780]

I have 2021 Montana Model: 3813MS
Towing Vehicle is: 2021 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.7 Diesel.
Attached are two photos at the scale:
#01. Just the Truck
#02. Truck and 5th Wheel.

[moparmad]

this is normal. don't worry. and you have plenty of truck to do what ya want

[Greg1780]

We have a 2021 Montana Model: 3813MS
Towing Vehicle: 2021 Ram Laramie 6.7 Diesel

Truck Weight Unloaded: 8220 Pounds
5th Wheel & Truck loaded: 24820 pounds

No problems towing but it does squat some.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Greg1780

We have a 2021 Montana Model: 3813MS
Towing Vehicle: 2021 Ram Laramie 6.7 Diesel

Truck Weight Unloaded: 8220 Pounds
5th Wheel & Truck loaded: 24820 pounds

No problems towing but it does squat some.

Not familiar with a RAM, but if its GVWR is 10K like a Ford 3/4 ton, your truck only has 1780 lbs of payload based on your scaled weight of 8220.

16,600 scaled trailer weight = approx 3650 lbs pin weight. That puts you 1870 over payload as weighed. That could explain the squat.

[DrSmart1]

Originally Posted by Mike1056

So my GAWR F is 6000 and R is 6040.
The Pin weight of my 5th wheel is 2300 with my payload at 3160.
The published towing capacity of my truck is 19680.
I had very little squat before putting the airbag system on. I added them because it didnt feel comfortable when hitting frost lines at bridges and bigger bumps in the road.

So I think I have enough truck. I do have a lube plate on the 5th wheel.
I will go over the hitch tonight and make sure everything is tight.

Thanks again for all the help!

Hope you locate the source of the clunking.


You have focused on weights and specs for the truck and trailer. The only weights you don't have are the actual. As suggested by other members, the scales will tell the story. I can understand not wanting to know since you have a 2021 and upgrading to a 3500 may not be possible. The 2300 pin weight you mention is not loaded. Your fifth wheel has a front and pass through compartment, not to mention a bedroom all froward of the trailer wheels. All great for storage. Anything stored, will increase your pin weight. This consumes your truck payload and rear axle capacity. Not referring to tow capacity.



Stay safe and enjoy your travels.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Greg1780

We have a 2021 Montana Model: 3813MS
Towing Vehicle: 2021 Ram Laramie 6.7 Diesel

Truck Weight Unloaded: 8220 Pounds
5th Wheel & Truck loaded: 24820 pounds

No problems towing but it does squat some.

Bad enough that you have blown past your GVWR, but have a strong possibility of being over tire and axle rating.

So yeppy skippy you win chest thumper of the day award!

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by G Giroux

My 2c: I have a Cougar 327 RES (11,600 lbs), TV Ford F250 Super Duty (gaser). From day one TV has has sloop in the drive train, loaded or empty. Ford tells me it is the slip-yoke, they grease it all is good for a little while then it comes back.
I also have a Husky, 16k, articulated 5th wheel, it has sloop also. So my fix was a slow take off. I do not view it significant enough to warrant switching to a hybrid shock absorbing pin box. Enjoy, drive safely.

I'm guessing that 11600lbs is the dry weight, which means absolutely nothing once that rv arrived at the dealer where batteries, propane, possibly some water & any dealer installed options were added, you will NEVER tow any rv near that dry weight unless you're delivering them from.the factory.
One other useless number is the advertised tow weight rating for a truck. That number was arrived at by the manufacturers towing utility type trailers with the low profile loads directly over the axles considerably lightening the tongue/pin weights, in no way compares to towing large high frontal profile with broad high wind catching sides & the loads fixed.
Dealers are very good at stating "your truck is rated to tow ???lbs & this unit has a dry weight of ???lbs so you're good", NO YOU ARE NOT GOOD! Salespersons have no idea nor any care if your good or not as long as they sell something.
All tongue/pin weights posted in rv brochures are for the dry weights not actual headed to the campground weights. To figure a good average tongue weight is 13% of the rvs posted GVWR posted on the manufacturers tag on the drivers side front corner of the rv. For 5th wheel pin weights use 23% of the posted GVWR for a particular 5er.
A truck may be advertised to "tow" XXXXXlbs, but due to it's limited payload can it actually safely "carry" that weight. Check the yellow/white tag on the drivers door jamb of the tow vehicle, it states "occupants and cargo must not exceed XXXXlbs", that's the payload of that truck as it left the factory, if the dealer or the you have added options, a toolbox, tonneau cover, people, pets, lawn chairs, firewood, or even change in the ashtray tray all that comes off that available payload along with the tongue/pin weight & the weight of the hitches.
Marshall uses a wheel barrow analogy. If your wheel barrow has a front & rear wheels loaded with 200lbs you can push/pull it with relative ease, now remove the rear wheel, now how far can you push/pull that same 200lbs lifting/carrying the rear.

[crowbar]

Hi Mike. Welcome to the forum. And by the way, that is a beautiful looking combination you have. As for your "clunk" that you hear, I would expect a little of that coming from your hitch when pulling your trailer. I had a fifth wheel before my present trailer and it had a bit of a clunk as well but not enough to have me worry about chasing it down. You are pulling a bit of weight there. With my present setup, even with a bumper pull, I get a bit of vibration in the drive line when I lift off but again, there's something hooked on to the back of my truck! As the others are saying though, I believe you're overweight with that setup but it's your call on that. I know the other week I was kicking tires at the local dealership and the first thing the salesman asked me was what my tow capacity was which was the first clue that he didn't know his exhaust valve from a hole in the ground. I just told him I didn't know, to avoid the debate, and said that I wouldn't look at anything unless it had a gvw of under 8000lbs. Hope you get your issues sorted out and have some good safe fun!

[dutchmensport]

I did not read all the posts because your experience sounds (somewhat) similar to the experience I have when I've towed 4 different trailers with at least a half to 3/4 tank of fresh water, and even worse when the sewer holding tanks were 3/4 full or more!

Are you running with water in your tanks. If so, THAT is probably the reason for the eerie feeling! The smaller the trailer, the more pronounced the eerie feeling is. My current fifth wheel is the heaviest trailer I've had. I feel it the lest with this one. But when fresh water tank is full, I can feel the difference in the way the trailer, brakes, suspension, everything functions and feels in the truck. This is the #1 reason why I travel with almost, completely empty tanks. .... water sloshing in those tanks makes the trailer feel really weird sometimes.