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02-17-2022, 08:32 AM
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#21
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Danny, unfortunately when a 5er gets to the 16K range gas MAY work, but it sometimes is just working. You more or less said that yourself with what seemed as a half hearted "it tows ok" .
When towing a 16K 5er having a TV that is rated to tow 25,225# as opposed to one rated to tow 18,000# makes a big difference in hill country. I am talking ablity to move the load not carry, I hardly notice our 13,000# 5er, either leaving the line or in the hills.
I think the diesel owners are just presenting to the OP that being close to max TOW, is not for all. That and once bought, finding he is not happy with a $70,000 truck, the difference in cost between a 7.3 and diesel is only about $8K, as the 7.3 is about a $2,500 option.
Danny, I am with you don't get a Ford diesel.
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Russ between this thread and the last I believe the OP has been told a diesel is optimal in every conceivable way. I think he knows that and why he started another thread asking for input on the 7.3 only, not a rehash/repost of all the reasons folks like a diesel.
As far as gas/diesel and the proposed load, I told the OP a diesel was in order IMO. A gas engine will probably "carry" 16k lbs. given the right setup and will also "pull" it....it just won't do it as easily as a diesel. If there are any hills at all, and there are few places that are totally flat, the gas engines available today, no matter how sophisticated the drivetrain, will know it and struggle in places. My comment about my truck towing 13k fine/ok is just what it means. If I didn't know what a diesel can do I would just say my truck tows 13k fine and be done, but a diesel will tow it better so the gas engine performance is not at the top of the heap. Now, when all factors are considered (not just pulling an RV) is a gas or diesel better for the job I have at hand? Gas. For 16k I would have to have a diesel; I've said that to the OP and so has everyone else, none of us can comment on the 7.3 as he has requested.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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02-17-2022, 08:53 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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On a different forum everyone has F150 2.7 or 3.? Ecoboost that argue daylight til dark that it'll tow their 7-10k lb trailers great. Those little engines with their turbos were designed to make horsepower at low rpms to move a heavy vehicle, they were NOT designed to have lots of torque which for any type of trailer towing is required. If the 7.3 is similar to the V10 it'll pass everything on the highway......... but a gas station, towing or not!.
The 7.3 is in that same category except it's not turboed so in order to use the available horsepower it'll be screaming at high rpms. It does appear to have decent torque for a gasser, but no where near the horsepower & torque of a diesel at much lower rpms which usually equate to better fuel mileage. Not to mention to greatest benefit of a diesel is the exhaust brake, whether in the mountains or not.
Most that don't want or never had a diesel always bring up higher maintenance costs, after having 2 diesels for a total of 300k miles with 1/3 to 1/2 of those miles towing 16.5k lb 5th wheels I can honestly say I didn't notice any huge difference. The gasser requires oil changes at 3000 to 7500 miles, my diesels were 12000 to 15000 or once a year. Same as a gasser the air filter as needed, fuel filter about every 3rd oil change. Then DEF is also mentioned, mine took a $10-12 2.5 gallon jug at about 3000 to 3500 miles, if bought at the pump it was about $6.
Sorry for the long winded opinion! But for my .02 cents a diesel is an absolute must for heavy towing, regardless of what Ford or why other truck manufacturers advertise about their gassers.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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02-17-2022, 10:37 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,395
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Well, the Ford bashers have all come out in force and voiced their opinions. Good for you. The OP hasn't heard from a single 7.3 owner who pulls a camper the size of the one he mentioned. I think I will avoid giving advice for things I do not have first hand knowledge. And Ram trucks are doo-doo and same for Chevy!
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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02-17-2022, 09:21 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: AKRON OH
Posts: 144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
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Yeah, I have been on this awhile now. What doesn't help is there is nothing on any lot to just get a hands on look and drive. Back then I had time to wait for the 7.3 to go through its growing pains. Well now I am retired, and you can't find anything, gas or diesel. So without any inventory near me, I'm kind of relying other's experiences. Who knew we would be in this position?
My answer to an earlier question about why I hate diesels, I don't. However, my DW is not a diesel fan. She remembers the old Cummins her old boss had. She hated it. I told her they are not the same as they were. But she's still a little skeptical. Also they aren't as simple or as forgiving as gasoline. They used to be, but they got screwed with an inferior polution system. I'm not saying there shouldn't polution controls, I'm just not sure it's perfected yet. And a hard disable system on a CEL is criminal in my opinion.
Then where I live, diesel costs $1.10 more per gallon. At the time of this writing, regular was $3.09 ... diesel is $4.19. If I can have a gasser perform like a diesel from the early to mid 2000's, I am money ahead. That allows more $ for camping.
Bottom line, if others with that 7.3l combo tell me DON'T. I will tell the wife it's going to take diesel or a smaller 5er.
And I really do appreciate everyone's help. I guess that's one of my short comings is over thinking things sometimes. I've learned plenty from this forum.
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02-18-2022, 05:53 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge
Well, the Ford bashers have all come out in force and voiced their opinions. Good for you. The OP hasn't heard from a single 7.3 owner who pulls a camper the size of the one he mentioned. I think I will avoid giving advice for things I do not have first hand knowledge. And Ram trucks are doo-doo and same for Chevy!
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Well maybe the reason for that is few have decided to use a 7.3 to tow a 15,000# to 16,000# 5er. While the 7.3 with 4.30's is rated to tow about 18,000#+, isn't that pulling a flatbed loaded to 18,000#+ going up the Davis dam grade, and maintaining 45 mph? As I mentioned before, when I thought of towing a fer with my last two Ford 460's, the towing guide in the owners manual listed a maximum frontal area is square feet.
I looked at the towing guide in the owners manual of both of our Ram Cummins there was no mention of maximum frontal area.
Towing a tall 5er with a gas engine will not be a pleasant experience.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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02-18-2022, 06:05 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD
Yeah, I have been on this awhile now. What doesn't help is there is nothing on any lot to just get a hands on look and drive. Back then I had time to wait for the 7.3 to go through its growing pains. Well now I am retired, and you can't find anything, gas or diesel. So without any inventory near me, I'm kind of relying other's experiences. Who knew we would be in this position?
My answer to an earlier question about why I hate diesels, I don't. However, my DW is not a diesel fan. She remembers the old Cummins her old boss had. She hated it. I told her they are not the same as they were. But she's still a little skeptical. Also they aren't as simple or as forgiving as gasoline. They used to be, but they got screwed with an inferior polution system. I'm not saying there shouldn't polution controls, I'm just not sure it's perfected yet. And a hard disable system on a CEL is criminal in my opinion.
Then where I live, diesel costs $1.10 more per gallon. At the time of this writing, regular was $3.09 ... diesel is $4.19. If I can have a gasser perform like a diesel from the early to mid 2000's, I am money ahead. That allows more $ for camping.
Bottom line, if others with that 7.3l combo tell me DON'T. I will tell the wife it's going to take diesel or a smaller 5er.
And I really do appreciate everyone's help. I guess that's one of my short comings is over thinking things sometimes. I've learned plenty from this forum.
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Noise
Well our 2001 Ram Cummins rattled like a can full of nuts when first started in cooler temps. As a favor to my neighbors I would plug in the block heater when temperatures got down to the low 40's. The new truck is very quiet and no diesel smell.
Fuel Cost
Well that is large difference, here in the PNW gas and diesel have been neck and neck for cost for a long time. Mostly within $0.40, and many times diesel the same or less than gas. Last tank was about $4.07 a gallon, last year at this time it seems it was just breaking $3.00 a gallon.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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02-18-2022, 08:59 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: AKRON OH
Posts: 144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Well maybe the reason for that is few have decided to use a 7.3 to tow a 15,000# to 16,000# 5er. While the 7.3 with 4.30's is rated to tow about 18,000#+, isn't that pulling a flatbed loaded to 18,000#+ going up the Davis dam grade, and maintaining 45 mph? As I mentioned before, when I thought of towing a fer with my last two Ford 460's, the towing guide in the owners manual listed a maximum frontal area is square feet.
I looked at the towing guide in the owners manual of both of our Ram Cummins there was no mention of maximum frontal area.
Towing a tall 5er with a gas engine will not be a pleasant experience.
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You might be right about that. But you pointed out something I hadn't seen in the towing PDF before you mentioned it. I had to go all the way to the end, page 50 of 53 total pages. I read it to the DW, because I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for sharing. We have some decisions to iron out. Bigger truck or smaller trailer.
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02-18-2022, 10:09 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Owosso
Posts: 212
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As others have said, you’re having a hard time finding anyone that pulls a fiver in that weight range in the manner and frequency you intend to do it simply because it isn’t a great choice. The 7.3, by all accounts I’ve heard, is excellent, the 10 speed tranny is awesome too. But to frequently pull that weight all over the country, the diesel is the better option.
__________________
Joe & Mary
2015 F350 XLT CCLB SRW 6.7 PS
2018 Cougar 344MKS
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02-19-2022, 05:44 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: AKRON OH
Posts: 144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk69
As others have said, you’re having a hard time finding anyone that pulls a fiver in that weight range in the manner and frequency you intend to do it simply because it isn’t a great choice. The 7.3, by all accounts I’ve heard, is excellent, the 10 speed tranny is awesome too. But to frequently pull that weight all over the country, the diesel is the better option.
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Yeah, the sound of crickets is deafening. I only found people pulling gooseneck trailers at that weight. I told the DW that these are OUR adventures. But we either go with a smaller trailer or bigger engine. I'll do whatever, to make it work for her. I'm blessed to have her. She thought about it for a little bit.
It helped that a guy in our neighborhood is a hot shot driver using a dually diesel Ram. We struck up a conversation with him just a day ago. We stood right next to his running truck. They're much quieter than she remembered. She remembers her old bosses '98 Dodge Cummins, and my old work truck, a 2001 Freightliner with the CAT motor. I wore earplugs driving that thing.
She's still thinking, but I'm pretty sure she's leaning to the bigger engine, we'll see. By the way I appreciate all of the responses I got. Sourdough, she really paid attention to your recommendation. Thanks
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02-19-2022, 06:12 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
I've not seen many folks using the 7.3 towing what you are describing. I would be interested as well as I'm debating between my normal Ram 6.4, a diesel or the 7.3 on my next truck. Have you seen the link below on the 7.3?
https://tfltruck.com/2020/02/2020-fo...-it-did-video/
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One last note to the OP on why most that tow over about 15,000# got with a diesel. This is the latest TFL Truck test I could find, I need to sharpen my search skills. This is towing 30,000# up the Ike, and they test the Ram, but also refer back to the GM and Ford also, this is the 2020 test.
https://tfltruck.com/2020/02/does-th...ng-test-video/
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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02-19-2022, 06:20 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD
Yeah, the sound of crickets is deafening. I only found people pulling gooseneck trailers at that weight. I told the DW that these are OUR adventures. But we either go with a smaller trailer or bigger engine. I'll do whatever, to make it work for her. I'm blessed to have her. She thought about it for a little bit.
It helped that a guy in our neighborhood is a hot shot driver using a dually diesel Ram. We struck up a conversation with him just a day ago. We stood right next to his running truck. They're much quieter than she remembered. She remembers her old bosses '98 Dodge Cummins, and my old work truck, a 2001 Freightliner with the CAT motor. I wore earplugs driving that thing.
She's still thinking, but I'm pretty sure she's leaning to the bigger engine, we'll see. By the way I appreciate all of the responses I got. Sourdough, she really paid attention to your recommendation. Thanks
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LOL!
I remember when our neighbor got his brand new 1996 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins, 100% mechanical injection, pump and injectors. You had to shout to carry on a conversation next to it! In 2003 Ram Cummins went to common rail and electronic injectors, the noise level came way down, and now days near that of a gas truck.
We have a very quiet interior on our 2016 Ram CTD.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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02-19-2022, 07:11 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norwood, CO
Posts: 667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
One last note to the OP on why most that tow over about 15,000# got with a diesel. This is the latest TFL Truck test I could find, I need to sharpen my search skills. This is towing 30,000# up the Ike, and they test the Ram, but also refer back to the GM and Ford also, this is the 2020 test.
https://tfltruck.com/2020/02/does-th...ng-test-video/
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Those guys do the best test. I tow that pass at least 3 times a year. It is a beast. They also did that tow test with the new electric Rivian. You should watch that. Electric trucks have monster torque, just can't go very far without recharging. That Ram truck was impressive. Hope the OP took note. After reading all the post I would say that the lack of anyone who used the gasser combo he was curious about was a statement of it's own.
__________________
German Shepherd Guy
2018 Keystone 26RBPR
2014 Suburban 2500, 6L with 3.73 rear
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02-19-2022, 08:18 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy
Those guys do the best test. I tow that pass at least 3 times a year. It is a beast. They also did that tow test with the new electric Rivian. You should watch that. Electric trucks have monster torque, just can't go very far without recharging. That Ram truck was impressive. Hope the OP took note. After reading all the post I would say that the lack of anyone who used the gasser combo he was curious about was a statement of it's own.
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Yes I have, the towing was impressive, the mileage not so much!
Once battery storage improvements are made for capacity they could be the next diesel.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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02-19-2022, 10:16 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
One last note to the OP on why most that tow over about 15,000# got with a diesel. This is the latest TFL Truck test I could find, I need to sharpen my search skills. This is towing 30,000# up the Ike, and they test the Ram, but also refer back to the GM and Ford also, this is the 2020 test.
https://tfltruck.com/2020/02/does-th...ng-test-video/
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Just to be clear, notice what they're hauling, where it's loaded on the trailer, neither can be compared to towing 5th wheel rvs.
The max tow rating for the Ram was 34k+lbs, for a 5th wheel rv that would require a 7800lb+ payload for the 23% pin weight on that 3500 dually, fairly certain it's not nearly that much.
To repeat what's been said here numerous times, truck max tow rating & rv dry/shipping weights in the rv world mean absolutely nothing & are totally useless for calculating truck/rv towing capabilities.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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02-19-2022, 01:19 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
Just to be clear, notice what they're hauling, where it's loaded on the trailer, neither can be compared to towing 5th wheel rvs.
The max tow rating for the Ram was 34k+lbs, for a 5th wheel rv that would require a 7800lb+ payload for the 23% pin weight on that 3500 dually, fairly certain it's not nearly that much.
To repeat what's been said here numerous times, truck max tow rating & rv dry/shipping weights in the rv world mean absolutely nothing & are totally useless for calculating truck/rv towing capabilities.
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No not towing an RV, but just to be clear all weights matter. Without a dry/shipping weight you can’t calculate carrying capacity/ payload!
Max towing is measured to a standard that includes towing a certain weight up a certain grade, a standard test. True the trailer used in those test is a flat bed so the load can be placed as to not exceed the tow vehicle payload.
Payload can also be misleading, a gas DRW will have in excess of a 6,000# payload. Well 23% of 24,000# is 5,520#, well with a 6,000#+ payload a gas DRW could carry a 24,000# 5er, but I sure would not want to pull that much with gas.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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02-24-2022, 08:07 AM
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#36
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Springtown
Posts: 43
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This may actually be an answer to your question. Posted Yesterday.
__________________
2022 F450 Lariat CC 4X4
2016 F250 Lariat CC 4X4 6.7 - Sold
2016 Wildwood 28DBUD - Sold
2021 Cougar 316rls
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02-24-2022, 08:24 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Benicia, California
Posts: 318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD
.........I'm wanting to order our new TV. Our future upgraded 5er will max out between 15k -16,350 lbs, but that's not till the new truck is here..........
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I tow a 16,6000 GVWR fifth wheel trailer with a Ford F350 DRW long bed with a 6.7 L diesel engine (440 horsepower 860 lb.-ft. of torque) and 3.73 axle ratio. I also have a new Class A with a 7.3L gas engine (350 hp 468 ft-lb torque @ 3900 rpm) and 4.88 axle ratio (from what I can glean on the F53 chassis). The diesel engine is very quiet, better acceleration, especially for passing, and significantly better hill climbing capability and has an exhaust brake for downgrades. Diesel is my choice......for more hp, torque and exhaust brake.
__________________
2020 Montana 3780RL fifth wheel
2016 F-350 Crew Cab long bed 4x2 DRW 6.7L Diesel
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02-24-2022, 08:48 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Pipe Creek
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD
I posted this question on a different forum. I got lots of great comments and advise. But, I didn't receive any responses from people who actually use this combination. And maybe, there's not too many who do. I'm sure I titled my post wrong.
I'm wanting to order our new TV. Our future upgraded 5er will max out between 15k -16,350 lbs, but that's not till the new truck is here.
We plan to full-time for about 4 years, then we would switch to being longtimers. I'm looking at the Ford CCLB, probably a dually, with the 7.3l gas motor and 4:30 axle ratio. Ideally, we will travel, and bed down for 1 to 2 weeks, rinse and repeat. I'm just looking for full timers who are using this engine right now to give their thoughts on it. Good and bad. I'm really hoping to find out about mountain grades, fuel range and your driving experience. Most of all, was it a good decision, or do you regret it?
I received lots of good info from the other post for going diesel, just looking at the other side of the coin.
Thanks and happy trails to all!
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I read quite a few posts, here, no one mentioned the difference in fuel alone. So, I'm going to touch on that. Comparatively, Gasoline gives about 65% of the energy of Diesel. It just does not deliver the same efficiency, nor the same amount of power. No matter what you do, on equal displacement engines, diesel will provide more power at lower RPM.
Do not be afraid to buy a diesel engine. They serve a purpose, they last longer, they labor less, and as a result of their performance, are more economical in the long run. Less downtime, more play.
I will never go back to gasoline on any work engine.
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02-24-2022, 09:09 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: AKRON OH
Posts: 144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcintx
This may actually be an answer to your question. Posted Yesterday.
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What fortuitous timing. This review is very different from the other one I found. I've seen a few of their older episodes, and I didn't realize they had switched to a 5th wheel. I think it's really going to depend on whether we break that 14-15k lb mark. The fueling issue is one I have now, so we'll see.
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02-24-2022, 10:10 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Pipe Creek
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD
Yeah, I have been on this awhile now. What doesn't help is there is nothing on any lot to just get a hands on look and drive. Back then I had time to wait for the 7.3 to go through its growing pains. Well now I am retired, and you can't find anything, gas or diesel. So without any inventory near me, I'm kind of relying other's experiences. Who knew we would be in this position?
My answer to an earlier question about why I hate diesels, I don't. However, my DW is not a diesel fan. She remembers the old Cummins her old boss had. She hated it. I told her they are not the same as they were. But she's still a little skeptical. Also they aren't as simple or as forgiving as gasoline. They used to be, but they got screwed with an inferior polution system. I'm not saying there shouldn't polution controls, I'm just not sure it's perfected yet. And a hard disable system on a CEL is criminal in my opinion.
Then where I live, diesel costs $1.10 more per gallon. At the time of this writing, regular was $3.09 ... diesel is $4.19. If I can have a gasser perform like a diesel from the early to mid 2000's, I am money ahead. That allows more $ for camping.
Bottom line, if others with that 7.3l combo tell me DON'T. I will tell the wife it's going to take diesel or a smaller 5er.
And I really do appreciate everyone's help. I guess that's one of my short comings is over thinking things sometimes. I've learned plenty from this forum.
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I understand your wife's concerns. My uncle had a Cummins diesel in his 96 Dodge. That was a first generation Cummins. Diesels of today are not anything like that. In fact, my 2006 F350 is noisy, but rides smooth. It rides like a brick, but it rides smooth. On the other hand, the 2020 F350, with a 6.7 liter diesel rides like a Cadillac. It's disgusting. It's like a pillow. I don't like that. But, your wife might really enjoy that. ❤
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