Factory Repair for Structural Issue.

[RickV]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I truly hope that CW can handle this repair for you.. Also when I looked at your model again and the image I am really surprised that when keystone built this model they Did Not go ahead and put the expansion joint in at this area during initial build.

My 2014 has the expansion joint.. Different floor plan but that relief cut in the sidewall (expansion joint) really makes a difference in allowing the frame to flex and yet not but the filon wall.

Not sure that it makes a hill of beans with regards to the aluminum studs that have broken loose at the bottom of the welds ( And They Have ).

I would INSIST on seeing the issue with the slideout and take pics your self of the work in progress..

Also .. just about every Alpine (FK) and (FL) models are seeing the cracks in the lower corner of the slide outs... FYI...

The Montana line is also seeing its fair share of slide sidewall cracks on its dual front slide models.

The file I uploaded in another comment on this post is the Latest repair procedure for your issue..

I would also be at CW in front of the Service manager and insist on him making a phone call to Keystone to get your warranty repair work status confirmed and in work... Perhaps you already have.

Bradd Hile is the Keystone Alpine District Sales manager.. he may also be of help if you can get in touch with him and ask for help resolving your warranty issues.

I have been busy and the CW is about 30 miles away I plan on heading up there Monday and will do the things you suggested. When I first took it in CW had said that they had seen this issue on quite a few units recently and they have the techs to do the repairs.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by RickV

I have been busy and the CW is about 30 miles away I plan on heading up there Monday and will do the things you suggested. When I first took it in CW had said that they had seen this issue on quite a few units recently and they have the techs to do the repairs.

The file I uploaded quite a few comments back is the latest version of the repair procedure.. If they have done this repair before and have the supplies on hand the task should take no more than a few days.

If there is actually an issue with the slide out or slide out cutout then that is a different story all together.. I would also take a very hard look at the Schwintek In wall rails on both sides of that slide and make sure there are no signs of abnormal motor tooth wear on the tracks.. There also have been several issues lately with the rivets that hold the Guide block in place.

I have also added the Lippert PDF for determining if the slide out cutout is within tolerances.

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0002661.pdf

[RickV]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

The file I uploaded quite a few comments back is the latest version of the repair procedure.. If they have done this repair before and have the supplies on hand the task should take no more than a few days.

If there is actually an issue with the slide out or slide out cutout then that is a different story all together.. I would also take a very hard look at the Schwintek In wall rails on both sides of that slide and make sure there are no signs of abnormal motor tooth wear on the tracks.. There also have been several issues lately with the rivets that hold the Guide block in place.

I have also added the Lippert PDF for determining if the slide out cutout is within tolerances.

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd-0002661.pdf

I saw the repair procedure document you posted looks like a lot of work maybe that's why they are requesting 60 hours. When I talked to my service writer last Saturday they said that the (I forget what they actually called it) slide out "pillars" were bent too, and that was part of the reason that I had to push on the slide as it was being retracted to get it to go in.

[ChuckS]

I revisited your image of your slide out crack and see NO expansion joint as well.. Here is an image from a Montana showing the repaired completed and the relief joint as well..

I find it Odd you have no relief joint at that lower corner of your slide out.. My Alpine is older of course and I have just a single front slide (BR) but I have the expansion joint on my unit..

[RickV]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I revisited your image of your slide out crack and see NO expansion joint as well.. Here is an image from a Montana showing the repaired completed and the relief joint as well..

I find it Odd you have no relief joint at that lower corner of your slide out.. My Alpine is older of course and I have just a single front slide (BR) but I have the expansion joint on my unit..

Yeah there no expansion joint here is a picture of it. This was in September of 2021 in Wisconsin the crack had just started and since my wife took the picture and was so far away when she took the picture you can't make it out (she wasn't trying to get a picture of it in her defense). But you can see no expansion joint. Out of curiosity i looked at the 2022 and 2023 models of the 3790FK and the 2022 was the same as mine but, the 2023 has the expansion joint right where my crack is hmm

[ChuckS]

Image from my 2014 Alpine. You can see it also has the stress relief joint

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RickV

Update:
Today makes 3 weeks that I took it to a Camping World near me. I talked to the Service dept. on Saturday and they said that they had sent Keystone pictures and info and that keystone had requested more info. They said that they had sent the more info Keystone had requested and were waiting for the OK from Keystone. They also claimed that keystone was offering only 5 hours for the repair and they estimated 60 hours. They said that besides the structural problems that the Pillars/Supports for the slide out were messed up (bent) too and would need to be replaced. So yesterday I called Keystone and they said they were waiting on Camping World to "Flip a Switch"(?) on the updated info. I know one thing this is the last "New" RV we will ever buy, let someone else deal with the crappy build, quality control and warranty service.

Rick those hours allowed by Keystone are negotiable. Those estimates are made by a "tech" that's been moved into the warranty dept. that may or may not have a clue about what he's doing (at least in my case). I had to get involved with not only Keystone but CW management to get the additional hours approved (substantial increase). When the required work was given to those above the "tech", and the procedures explained, both entities agreed that the "allowed" hours given by the tech were not realistic.

[Bearcatrp]

If this is a common issue with keystone RVs, surprised a class action lawsuit hasn’t happened yet. It’s BS not standing up behind their product but giving customers the run around getting it fixed. Glad I read this post as now I will wonder if my 2021 half ton will go through this BS.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Bearcatrp

If this is a common issue with keystone RVs, surprised a class action lawsuit hasn’t happened yet. It’s BS not standing up behind their product but giving customers the run around getting it fixed. Glad I read this post as now I will wonder if my 2021 half ton will go through this BS.

Since you have not set up a signature with year, make and model of your Cougar nor does your profile include this information, it isn't likely whether anyone could guess if your camper might be affected in the future. This problem occurs generally in a certain area on 5th wheels configured in a certain manner. I have a Cougar and list it as a 2002 Cougar 278EFS and anyone seeing that would know I would not likely be affected by cracks.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Bearcatrp

If this is a common issue with keystone RVs, surprised a class action lawsuit hasn’t happened yet. It’s BS not standing up behind their product but giving customers the run around getting it fixed. Glad I read this post as now I will wonder if my 2021 half ton will go through this BS.

Its NOT A KEYSTONE ISSUE, but rather a Lippert frame issue, Look it up.

[VTROCK]

I just posted on forums with a similar issue with my 5er (2018 368MBI). I am out of warranty but CW has confirmed by inspection that my crack is a result from a break in aluminum frame weld behind fiberglass. Have hit roadblocks with Keystone so far for a known problem that could easily be remedied during manufacture.

Good luck

[RickV]

I have been busy and didn't get around to updating this. Last Monday I jumped in the car and drove up to CW in Lake City to talk to them. I spoke with the Service Manager who looked on his PC and said that Keystone had approved the repair. While we are talking I made a comment about how nice it would be to not have to power assist the slideout when retracting, he gets a deer in the headlights look and says that's not on the repair list. I am like WTH and explain to him that the service writer was well aware of it and took pictures showing how much the bottom of the slide was sticking out vs. the top when closed. My Service Writer was off and he said let me talk to her tomorrow and you can call her after lunch. When I call they are having PC and communication problems and so she can't access the portal. She says she will get back to me. Here it is Sunday and haven't heard back. I guess I'll have to make another visit to CW.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by RickV

I have been busy and didn't get around to updating this. Last Monday I jumped in the car and drove up to CW in Lake City to talk to them. I spoke with the Service Manager who looked on his PC and said that Keystone had approved the repair. While we are talking I made a comment about how nice it would be to not have to power assist the slideout when retracting, he gets a deer in the headlights look and says that's not on the repair list. I am like WTH and explain to him that the service writer was well aware of it and took pictures showing how much the bottom of the slide was sticking out vs. the top when closed. My Service Writer was off and he said let me talk to her tomorrow and you can call her after lunch. When I call they are having PC and communication problems and so she can't access the portal. She says she will get back to me. Here it is Sunday and haven't heard back. I guess I'll have to make another visit to CW.

Rick it is unfortunate but when you have complicated or extensive repairs at a dealership I've found it almost imperative that I'm in the middle of it all the time. The last extensive repair I had done I was there, in the shop with the svc. mgr., svc. writer and tech 3 times a week to keep it on the front burner and not have them pull it out of the bay, put something else in, something happens and it gets tied up, then mine just sits another week or two. Sounds like there is some miscommunication there and I've had it happen several times between the service writer and Keystone. Get the SM involved and keep him involved.

Lake City seemed like a pretty nice but small CW. Didn't pay a lot of attention to the service department as we were in the buying mode. GM showed me a Solitude out in the back 40 I almost bit on but I would of had to buy a diesel..... Good luck on getting the repairs done right and soon.

[JRTJH]

Rick,

Just thinking "outside the box" here, but according to the Keystone warranty, slide adjustment is only covered by warranty during the first 90 days of ownership. So, there's no "slide adjustment warranty" to adjust your slide so the bottom closes evenly with the top....

All that said, to repair your trailer cracked frame is going to require the slide to be removed from the trailer. When reinstalling the slide, a part of that installation will be to adjust the slide so it opens and closes evenly.....

So, you may be "overthinking the problem" as there is a "slide adjustment" included in the reinstallation, even though it may not be addressed as an independent and separate line item on the repair authorization....

While CW may not view it as such, it may well be included in what Keystone authorized, but not by "line item"....

So, before "crashing down on Camping World" you might contact Keystone, ask them if they got any information on the bottom/top closing issue and if they authorized the adjustment on slide reinstallation.....

It may just be a case of you "asking apples" and the CW person you talked to "answering oranges".....

[sourdough]

John brings up an excellent point. First visit with the SM might be to simply ask if that adjustment wouldn't be required when everything is put back together then hopefully negating another Keystone inquiry, approval etc. Hopefully he'll stand right up and tell you "yes it would be".

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Its NOT A KEYSTONE ISSUE, but rather a Lippert frame issue, Look it up.

apparently Keystone is responsible for EVERYTHING after the sale,no matter if it’s out of their control or not by reading other posts …The dealer messes up a repair ? Keystones fault….Suburban furnace breaks…Keystone …you get a undercooked hamburger WHILE towing your Keystone?..you guessed it..Keystones fault..get a lawyer

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

apparently Keystone is responsible for EVERYTHING after the sale,no matter if it’s out of their control or not by reading other posts …The dealer messes up a repair ? Keystones fault….Suburban furnace breaks…Keystone …you get a undercooked hamburger WHILE towing your Keystone?..you guessed it..Keystones fault..get a lawyer

Sadly, you're right.... Far too many "new owners" or "disenchanted owners, old and new" want to find someone to blame, so they hang it on the builder...

I'd be very interested in being the "fly on the wall" when those same people buy a new house and then, a couple years after moving in, they have an issue with the air conditioner or the water heater, the carpet has stretched and has a loose spot, or the stove or the bathroom faucet and call the builder, tell him that it's "his responsibility since he built the house" and then demanding they "rush right over and fix it".....

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Sadly, you're right.... Far too many "new owners" or "disenchanted owners, old and new" want to find someone to blame, so they hang it on the builder...

I'd be very interested in being the "fly on the wall" when those same people buy a new house and then, a couple years after moving in, they have an issue with the air conditioner or the water heater, the carpet has stretched and has a loose spot, or the stove or the bathroom faucet and call the builder, tell him that it's "his responsibility since he built the house" and then demanding they "rush right over and fix it".....

I can tell you how that goes. It's just like it is with an RV - you and the manufacturer of xyz widgit.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I can tell you how that goes. It's just like it is with an RV - you and the manufacturer of xyz widgit.

Yep, that's been my experience with all the houses I've contracted to build. Every builder I've hired did his job (build the house for me for the stated price). They'd install appliances etc if it was a part of the negotiated price. Once the house was built and they handed me the keys, if there was a problem with any appliance, faucet, toilet, water heater, plumbing run or electrical switch or ROMEX wiring or even the paint/sheetrock, if I called the builder, he'd provide me with the phone number of who sold him that appliance or part or the phone number for the electrician or the plumber that did the install.... I don't think any builder ever even called me back to see if someone else solved my problem...

Essentially, once the keys were mine, any problems were mine as well...

They'd all "smile or grin broadly" but "rush right out to do more work?" Not so much

[RickV]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Rick,

Just thinking "outside the box" here, but according to the Keystone warranty, slide adjustment is only covered by warranty during the first 90 days of ownership. So, there's no "slide adjustment warranty" to adjust your slide so the bottom closes evenly with the top....

All that said, to repair your trailer cracked frame is going to require the slide to be removed from the trailer. When reinstalling the slide, a part of that installation will be to adjust the slide so it opens and closes evenly.....

So, you may be "overthinking the problem" as there is a "slide adjustment" included in the reinstallation, even though it may not be addressed as an independent and separate line item on the repair authorization....

While CW may not view it as such, it may well be included in what Keystone authorized, but not by "line item"....

So, before "crashing down on Camping World" you might contact Keystone, ask them if they got any information on the bottom/top closing issue and if they authorized the adjustment on slide reinstallation.....

It may just be a case of you "asking apples" and the CW person you talked to "answering oranges".....

You are probably correct. I am just frustrated with dealing with this, this has been going on since November of 2021 when we got home from being on the road for 5 months. The dealer I purchased it at continually dropped the ball on this and other issues some of which I fixed myself and one big one that will be repaired by insurance. That is why I took it to CW. We have bought three 5vers from that dealer and will never go back to them again because of their service department's incompetence. I am busy today but will take a ride up to CW tomorrow morning.