2021 cougar

[Rwake901]

Not that this helps with your problems but never again will I buy a camper from Camping World or buy another Keystone product.
Good luck with getting everything fixed I found that most things you just have to fix yourself because Keystone won’t.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by sourdough

And one more discouraging thought; be prepared to be without the trailer for quite some time with that extensive of a list and with all the material shortages still going on and the backup on work due to the time of year and all the new trailers being sold. Another reason to make sure everything is working before taking off with a new trailer - it sitting on the dealer's lot for months waiting on repairs.

One trick I learned far too late: don't drop your rig off at the dealer's and wait for them to repair it. Bring it to the dealer so that they can make a list of parts that they need to order for your repairs, then take it back home while they wait for the parts to arrive.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Keep in mind the mentality of 1st time buyers; they have bought brand new cars in the past and just sign and go. Most never have a problem when buying a car. The poor OP learned the RV trust lesson I suspect and I suspect he, like most 1st time RV buyers thought the buying experience would be akin to a car buying experience. 1st time RVing is a learning experience and education has its costs.

And of course there is the behavior profile that just can't be addressed -- people with no experience in the hobby buy the RV first, then they join RV organizations and support websites later, and discover that they did it all wrong. If there were just some way that we could have them do those things in the other order, they would be a lot happier people, and maybe more pressure on the manufacturers to get it right the first time.

My first time, knowing that I didn't know anything about RVs, I joined a Nader style organization (rv.org) that actually did inspections of huge numbers of RV brands and models, and published results and rankings. At the time, the Internet wasn't a thing, so they published a giant book of results about the size of the Good Sam campground guide. I shopped according to their recommendations, and ended up with a rig that lasted us 20 years with next to no problems.

I went back to see them again before buying my current rig, but they had devolved into a much less useful, Internet-based organization that didn't seem to traffic in hard, recent reviews, and also didn't honor the promise on their website that "once a member, always a member." As a result, I ended up buying my Cougar without their help, and now I have something to fix on it nearly every month.

[CraigB]

It's not up to the dealer or the customer to make sure the manufacturer builds a quality product. They should have a QUALITY CONTROL / ASSURANCE DEPARTMENT that is part of THEIR process. They'll keep doing it as long as we keep buying the garbage.

[Joedittmar]

I bought a 2021 cougar 5th wheel about a month ago. What a piece of crap. This is not my first keystone product but it will be my last. I'm already looking to trade it off. This is my 3rd brand new trailer since 2018. The last 2 were Forrest river products and didn't have nearly as many of the quality or craftsmanship problems as this one. No more keystone garbage for me.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by CraigB

It's not up to the dealer or the customer to make sure the manufacturer builds a quality product. They should have a QUALITY CONTROL / ASSURANCE DEPARTMENT that is part of THEIR process. They'll keep doing it as long as we keep buying the garbage.

And who brings this about... if not the customer?

[Huckster237]

YES I have been through the Hell You are about to go through to get the service did that you should not have had to deal with .866-425-4369 Keystone factory in Indiana Misty Martin would be a good start .also DAILY constant emails and keep your records of Names and numbers 6 months later you should be going camping trouble free .2019 Keystone Cougar owner

[Dege]

I feel a little guilty posting this but my experience with my dealer and first RV (Rpod) was almost exactly opposite of the horror stories here. My wife and I bought our Rpod and after a 30 minute briefing from the service department off we went on our first trip. We did find several little things wrong. I called the service department on our way home and they put it in the shop immediately on our return. Granted there were a few parts that took awhile to come in, it is the Age of COVID after all. One thing that happened was the pocket door fell off it's sliding hinges and got scratched up. It took several months to get the door from Forest River but the service department fixed the original door up in the interim and we had a working door while we waited. When the new door came in they replaced it. We didn't even know they had replaced it until we went out to the trailer for spring cleaning. I had dragged the lanyard for the emergency brake on the trailer down the highway and cut it in two on our last trip. Pulled the trailer into our storage spot, which is co-located with dealer, and let service know what I had done. The next time we went out to the trailer they had replaced it at no charge. Each and every time I have had an issue with my Rpod the people there have genuinely taken an interest and resolved each and every problem amicably and professionally.

I know this isn't the typical experience for most people and I've had to deal with crappy service and down right rude people many times in other type situations but crappy service and surly people is NOT what my wife and I have experienced at our dealer. Three Way Campers in Marietta Georgia btw. It is actually a pleasure working with them. Enough so we upgraded our Rpod to a Cougar Half-Ton with them. Voting with my dollars as it were. This is just our experience and we were lucky finding the right dealer from the outset.

[JRTJH]

Dege,

The vast majority of dealerships are customer oriented, problem free and a pleasure to use. There are "some" (certainly not the majority) dealerships that simply are not up to par. They usually don't last long under that type of management and with a change in staff, they become a "solid dealership". The problem is that those customers who were turned off by the bad service, most often, never give the dealership another chance, so they never benefit from "walking away with their dollars".... Completely understandable, but .....

I'm the same way. I do not like tuna noodle casserole.... I tried it once, it tasted AWFUL !!! I've no doubt it was the fault of the person who cooked it, not the ingredients, but I'll NEVER, EVER sit at a table with that dish again.... And, truth be told, I haven't eaten anything else that person cooked, and it's been well over 30 years.... Yep, probably unfair to tuna noodle casserole and certainly unfair to that person, but like the dealerships, "once burned, shame on them, twice burned, shame on me".....

I'm "about as certain as I can be" that the vast majority of Keystone trailers are also trouble free or at worst, have a few minor issues that are fixed by the dealership on the first visit. We never hear about those trailers and those owners are "out camping" not online complaining.... In other words, the 2% get all the publicity while the 98% we never read about....

So, the more complex trailers become, the more components are installed and "logic" would be that if you have more stuff "stuffed" (pun intended) in a trailer, you have more "stuff to break" and more potential that something will require a trip back to the dealership.....

But, for the vast majority of people who buy a new trailer, they have a pleasant experience with the dealer, with Keystone, with the trailer and even "with their tires".... But for that 2%, there probably wouldn't be a "Ralph Nader organization" or even a forum on which to "warn the world about bad things".....

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.....

[judia]

In spite of who did or didn't do a proper PDI or who is at fault for the quality, all the items listed should be under warranty. Make a service appointment for warranty repairs. The service guy is your best contact now and going forward.
Be nice and be prepared for it to take awhile. This is every dealer's busy time.

[Nhkev]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Sounds like you didn't have them do a PDI and do a walk through test out of all systems - you should have. You are also contacting the wrong people. CW headquarters and Keystone won't have anything to do with your issues. They will have to be resolved between the dealer and yourself. Virtually all new trailers have issues but between the dealer and new owner should be found prior to taking delivery.

I’d be on the phone with keystone first thing, then GM if dealer.

[Urbish]

I took delivery of my first brand new travel trailer a couple months ago. I had a similar list of flaws, big and small. A couple of them I caught at the PDI. The rest were discovered by me later.

I think it is really lame that the RV industry has gotten people to accept/expect broken/faulty/shoddy things and that it is up to the least-informed party (the customer) to perform a scavenger hunt during the PDI, then wait weeks/months for the dealer to fix things that should have been plainly obvious from the start.

Fortunately I am handy and have an eye for detail. I have not and will not return to the dealer for anything short of a complete structural problem and have made all my own repairs in preparation for our first outing. The dealer had a shot at making it right when they sold it to me and obviously couldn't be bothered to actually look at the thing. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be happy with whatever their 'fix' is and would end up doing it myself anyway.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Urbish

I took delivery of my first brand new travel trailer a couple months ago. I had a similar list of flaws, big and small. A couple of them I caught at the PDI. The rest were discovered by me later.

I think it is really lame that the RV industry has gotten people to accept/expect broken/faulty/shoddy things and that it is up to the least-informed party (the customer) to perform a scavenger hunt during the PDI, then wait weeks/months for the dealer to fix things that should have been plainly obvious from the start.

Fortunately I am handy and have an eye for detail. I have not and will not return to the dealer for anything short of a complete structural problem and have made all my own repairs in preparation for our first outing. The dealer had a shot at making it right when they sold it to me and obviously couldn't be bothered to actually look at the thing. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be happy with whatever their 'fix' is and would end up doing it myself anyway.

It IS unfortunate that the industry turns out RVs that will need some work after they are sent out. On the other hand, it is somewhat understandable. As far as "getting" people to accept/expect broken, shoddy things; there is a very simple answer....don't buy an RV. If you do then you have "accepted" the fact that it is going to have issues more than likely. If you choose to "vote with your pocketbook" and not buy one go right ahead; they'll never miss you and never care because there are throngs of folks sitting out there waiting to buy one, aware of the potential issues and willing to address them.

So in the end the RV industry is what it is, they haven't brainwashed anyone into "accepting/epecting" broken, shoddy things - they just are. If one doesn't want to deal with that, thinks that it's "unfair" or shouldn't be that way....I've provided an answer for that.

[Urbish]

I knew going in that I was going to be buying a POS that would need a weekend or two of attention to 'make it right'. That was clear from flaws I saw in all different makes and models while doing my search. But what I found and needed to fix fell well below my already low expectations. I've discovered missing critical welds on the frame and roofing punctures caused by over-driving screws from inside, to 'storage compartments' that are barely stapled together and fall apart the first time you store items in them and wire splices that fall off in hidden locations (I've found 5 so far, one of which was for my BRAKE LIGHTS!).

I'm a mechanical engineer with over 20 years of product design & development experience. I find the approach of the RV industry reprehensible. I would never send a product out the door that was slapped together this haphazardly.

It's too bad we can't check a box when we order that increases the price 10-15% but guarantees that the unit is put together by people who actually know/care about what they are doing. But it is what it is. I doubt I'll ever purchase another one.

[wiredgeorge]

Seems to me some of the gurus on this site sniff at buying used Keystone campers... I have a 2002 and have had virtually none of the issues folks complain about when buying new models. I have had stuff that is worn out and needed replacing; especially outside plastic bits and last time out, the rubber cone seal on one of my water inlets in the kitchen sink; they learn to deform and you can't re-tighten this type rubber seal. I also replaced many things in the camper to make it the way my wife and I wished; carpet had to go as we camp with dog-critters (why put carpet in a camper?). I did put new outside window seals in as the originals were shot and deformed. But I haven't fixed any cabinets or trim or had bad wire splices or bad plumbing.

Were campers made better in 2002? Looks like mine was and I think I will keep it. The only limitation is the so-so tech who maintains it (me).

[jimborokz]

Originally Posted by Dege

I feel a little guilty posting this but my experience with my dealer and first RV (Rpod) was almost exactly opposite of the horror stories here. My wife and I bought our Rpod and after a 30 minute briefing from the service department off we went on our first trip. We did find several little things wrong. I called the service department on our way home and they put it in the shop immediately on our return. Granted there were a few parts that took awhile to come in, it is the Age of COVID after all. One thing that happened was the pocket door fell off it's sliding hinges and got scratched up. It took several months to get the door from Forest River but the service department fixed the original door up in the interim and we had a working door while we waited. When the new door came in they replaced it. We didn't even know they had replaced it until we went out to the trailer for spring cleaning. I had dragged the lanyard for the emergency brake on the trailer down the highway and cut it in two on our last trip. Pulled the trailer into our storage spot, which is co-located with dealer, and let service know what I had done. The next time we went out to the trailer they had replaced it at no charge. Each and every time I have had an issue with my Rpod the people there have genuinely taken an interest and resolved each and every problem amicably and professionally.

I know this isn't the typical experience for most people and I've had to deal with crappy service and down right rude people many times in other type situations but crappy service and surly people is NOT what my wife and I have experienced at our dealer. Three Way Campers in Marietta Georgia btw. It is actually a pleasure working with them. Enough so we upgraded our Rpod to a Cougar Half-Ton with them. Voting with my dollars as it were. This is just our experience and we were lucky finding the right dealer from the outset.

This is good to know. Our daughter and SIL bought their Rpod from Three Way. No issues so far but good to know of their reputation. I know it's second generation family owned and maybe that is the difference. We shopped there years ago for our first fifth wheel but ended up buying used from private owner. Dealer experience seems to make all the difference in the RV life.

[Aric G]

We just bought a 2021 cougar 26 rks from camping world. We had similar problems on our maiden trip. Worst being the black and gray tank valve pulls were not attached to the tank. When I opened the output tube cap I was drenched in black and gray water. The sales person and service person who gave us our walk through told us that the factory and camping world “inspected” the camper 3x. They didn’t. If they did they just made sure the lights worked.
Lesson learned here. Camping world is a freaking joke. It’s not your fault things do not work properly on your camper. It’s the manufacturer and camping worlds fault. Yes. It will be covered on warranty but it’s the principle of it. Camping world just doesn’t care and they will never take responsibility for poor workmanship. Learn from the experience and move along.

[Life-in-Him]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Sounds like you didn't have them do a PDI and do a walk through test out of all systems - you should have. You are also contacting the wrong people. CW headquarters and Keystone won't have anything to do with your issues. They will have to be resolved between the dealer and yourself. Virtually all new trailers have issues but between the dealer and new owner should be found prior to taking delivery.

Your answer re PDI is OK but...

We went thru a lot on ours.

Problem is, as newbie we had no way of doing it.



Is there any thoughts about how to get newbie's on track before they're up to their armpits in quicksand?



Something like getting every existing RV owner to tell anybody who ever asks "how do you like your zzz"?



We try to remember to talk about PDI's any time we think about it, but ancient-what's left grey mater fails to show up.



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[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Life-in-Him

Your answer re PDI is OK but...

We went thru a lot on ours.

Problem is, as newbie we had no way of doing it.



Is there any thoughts about how to get newbie's on track before they're up to their armpits in quicksand?



Something like getting every existing RV owner to tell anybody who ever asks "how do you like your zzz"?



We try to remember to talk about PDI's any time we think about it, but ancient-what's left grey mater fails to show up.



�

Sad part is that most of the "noobies" that you speak of don't show up here until after they're already "up to their armpits in quick sand"...


Those who do join and share their plans to buy a trailer are "almost always" directed to the PDI checklist, warned "repeatedly" to not sign anything until the trailer is in satisfactory condition and NEVER to take the dealership's word for the condition of the trailer, rather VERIFY that it meets their expectations....

Those that don't show up "until they're sinking in frustration", well, even with my Carnak cape and head dress, mayonnaise jar and the sealed envelopes, there just isn't enough "magical fortune telling capability" to get to all of them before they take that step off of firm ground.....

Some people are too trusting, some people are too cynical some people learn to be cynical after being too trusting... Most "second time RV buyers" fall into the last category.... I wish more "first time RV buyers" would learn to be a tad bit more cynical....

[sourdough]

What John said above would be right. When I bought my first trailer I had never heard of a PDI, nor for many years later. It was all by "the seat of the pants" and trial and error (and I was somewhat lucky back then).

Nowadays folks want something NOW. Go in, hear a good story, find something they've been wanting for some time and sign the dotted line. All well and good but IMO maybe folks have gotten too jaded. Our last trailer cost about 7 times what our first house cost; maybe one should put some thought into that vs just "going at it" and then bemoaning problems.

With the availability of the internet, the resources such as this forum etc., anyone thinking about any kind of purchase like that should do their homework. If not, they end up here or somewhere else with issues. Too many resources today to be caught with your drawers down on something like that IMO but it happens every day. And therefore you have folks like the ones on this forum trying to help anyone they can....because it happens.