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12-27-2020, 05:47 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 543
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TT for a 5er
Would appreciate thoughts on this.
I am taking my TT back to Camping World on 1/5/2021 for them to replace the break away switch which has frayed or burnt wires since the day I brought it home. This however has no bearing on me wanting a 5er.
When I purchaseed my TT I had told the sales person I really want a 5er but the cost of mounting the hitch in the bed of my then GMC swayed me to my current TT. Then I discovered the hard way that the half ton GMC could not safely pull the TT or a 5er when I pulled the TT home.
So the next week after getting the TT home, I went truck shopping and got my current Ram. Love the Ram and the 5er puck system in the bed of the truck it came with has me again wanting a 5er. Have also been researching hitches for the 5er and really like the Andersen Ultimate for the Ram 6 1/2 foot bed.
So when the wife and I get to the dealer on 1/5 we intend to look at the Cougar 29MBS they have on the lot. This is the one I really wanted to begin with. I like the layout and especially the bunk room slide.
__________________
Dan (USAF Retired)
2021 Cougar 290RLS w the Andersen Ultimate
2022 Ram 3500 SRW Big Horn Mega Cab
6.7L I6 CTD with Air Suspension
6 Speed Automatic 68RFE Transmission
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12-27-2020, 07:41 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,350
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I say, if the numbers all align, go for it. Fivers tow so much easier, just be careful because you might like it enough to move up to a DRW 1 Ton and a 40’ fiver.
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2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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12-28-2020, 04:56 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 543
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Thanks for the input.
__________________
Dan (USAF Retired)
2021 Cougar 290RLS w the Andersen Ultimate
2022 Ram 3500 SRW Big Horn Mega Cab
6.7L I6 CTD with Air Suspension
6 Speed Automatic 68RFE Transmission
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12-28-2020, 05:43 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,034
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25% of the 5th's Gross Weight versus what the truck yellow sticker says the max payload is.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
2023 CanAm Defender SXS
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12-28-2020, 06:29 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,719
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You'll take a financial beating if selling the current camper, but sometimes money is NOT worth it. Follow your dream. If not, you will never truly enjoy the trailer, always feeling cheated out of the fifth wheel.
I can't comment on your tow vehicle since I'm a die-hard 3500 dualy, long bed, crew cab, diesel guy. I wouldn't tow anything with anything less. But, that's just me.
Again, follow your dream. Once you do, and make the necessary adjustments, you'll be so glad you did!
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2019 Montana High Country 375FL
2014 Chevy Duramax HD 6.6 - 3500 Diesel Dully Long bed Crew Cab
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12-28-2020, 06:31 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead
25% of the 5th's Gross Weight versus what the truck yellow sticker says the max payload is.
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Well the 5er has an 11,000# GVWR and a payload of 2,102# so not too hard to get to GVWR. That makes 25% = 2,750#, 22% = 2,420#, 20% = 2,200#.
That is a nice layout if you can make it work.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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12-28-2020, 06:56 AM
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#7
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Looking at the RAM Towing Guide, and not knowing what the "yellow sticker on YOUR truck" documents, most anything could be possible.
In the Towing Guide, the payload ranges from around 1860 - 2710 pounds. So, you may be looking at "the impossible dream" if your truck is on the low end of that range or you might be looking at a "possible with a razor thin margin" on the high end.
No matter where your truck sits in payload capacity, towing an 11,000 pound fifth wheel is going to put any 2500 series diesel 4x4 crew cab truck "at or very near the maximum payload. I own a Ford F250 diesel, 4x4 crew cab and tow a 10,000 pound fifth wheel. EVERY (did I mention EVERY) trip is a juggling of the cargo to make sure we have what we need, don't have anything we don't need for the purpose of that trip so we can stay under the payload for the truck. I'm guessing you're going to be in the same situation with your "much bigger and more capable 3/4 ton upgrade".....
IMHO, you'd be better off staying with the trailer you have since your current truck is doing a "better than adequate job" of towing it. Upgrading to an 11,000 pound fifth wheel is probably going to put you "exactly where you were with your GMC half ton and your current trailer: Too much trailer and too little truck.....
The question becomes: Are you going to jump back into the same situation you just got out of????? Only that yellow sticker knows for sure.....
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John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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12-28-2020, 07:13 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,467
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Roper46, Know that the term half ton towable is marketing and not reality. That fifth wheel is 11K gross weight and that means a tongue weight of 2500 lbs. The tongue weight Keystone lists is not to be believed either. Look at the yellow/white placard in your driver side door frame and see if you, your family and whatever in your truck, plus hitch and the 2500 lbs is north or south of the payload for your truck. Many 3/4 ton trucks have only a little more payload than a half ton.
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wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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12-28-2020, 07:33 AM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Fairmont
Posts: 75
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You are getting some excellent advice here. My experience with my F250 diesel pulling my 8,000lbs GVW TT was that I averaged 400lbs to the good. That truck had a 2,228lbs load capacity! Pulled like a dream of course, but with my wife planning retirement and wanting to spend more time on the road we decided to upgrade to an F350 DRW diesel, 5436lbs payload capacity. Now purchasing a 38', 16,500lbs GVW 5th wheel and happy to have the TV to handle it properly. There is nothing like feeling comfortable and secure when hauling a load this large. Good luck!
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Ken & Jane Campbell
2020 F350 Dually, 6.7 Diesel
2021 Alliance Paradigm 340RL
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12-28-2020, 09:10 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canton
Posts: 289
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All of this is good advice - check your payload sticker so you "know" what you have.
That being said, if you are definitely looking at the 29MBS, I would be certain you are fine with your truck for that specific model. We were torn between the 29MBS (that kitchen is amazing), and the 32BHS. Ultimately, outside kitchen won the battle.
Both the 29MBS and 32BHS are similar in weights, but the shorter 29MBS is lighter than our 32BHS by about 500# (empty).
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Eddy
2019 GMC Sierra 2500HD 6.0L
2020 Cougar 32BHS
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12-28-2020, 09:53 AM
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#11
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewbldavis
All of this is good advice - check your payload sticker so you "know" what you have.
That being said, if you are definitely looking at the 29MBS, I would be certain you are fine with your truck for that specific model. We were torn between the 29MBS (that kitchen is amazing), and the 32BHS. Ultimately, outside kitchen won the battle.
Both the 29MBS and 32BHS are similar in weights, but the shorter 29MBS is lighter than our 32BHS by about 500# (empty).
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If you're comment means that you're "certain" he'll be OK with that trailer, then that's "bad advice"... If his RAM bighorn has the 1860 pound payload, then his truck with be overloaded before he puts the first sheet or loaf of bread in the trailer.
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John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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12-28-2020, 10:34 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 3,015
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The new truck you’ve got with the diesel and 4x4 is a nice tow vehicle... the fifth wheel your looking at is..
.. 32 ft long
.. 8801 empty
.. 1630 pin weight
By the time you add in weight of propane, food, clothes, other items you will want your gonna add another 2000lbs (guess) overall weight
Still well within the tow capacity (motor and transmission) wise
But your pin weight is gonna go up another 200 lbs easily
The Anderson hitch will help a ton regarding not taking away availability “Load Capacity) of your truck
Your gonna be close load capacity wise but the 32 foot length is a smart choice.
You might want to consider the 27SGS with its lighter pin weight..
See attached pics
I tow a 34 foot Alpine with a heavier pin weight than yours .. I’m over on payload . And have towed it for 7 years and will continue to.
Look at your truck door sticker and it will tell you exactly what your load capacity is and then you will have the facts to formulate your choice
__________________
2007 GMC Classic club cab 4x4 Duramax LBZ
2014 Alpine 3010 RE. 34 foot fifth wheel
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12-28-2020, 10:41 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canton
Posts: 289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
If you're comment means that you're "certain" he'll be OK with that trailer, then that's "bad advice"... If his RAM bighorn has the 1860 pound payload, then his truck with be overloaded before he puts the first sheet or loaf of bread in the trailer.
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I mentioned for him to check his ACTUAL payload. I very highly doubt he needs a 1-ton dually for a 32ft. 5th wheel...but I digress...
__________________
Eddy
2019 GMC Sierra 2500HD 6.0L
2020 Cougar 32BHS
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12-28-2020, 11:23 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewbldavis
I mentioned for him to check his ACTUAL payload. I very highly doubt he needs a 1-ton dually for a 32ft. 5th wheel...but I digress...
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No not likely, but his 2500 diesel can easily pull it he may not have the listed payload to carry it.
Another case of “Coulda Woulda Shouda” gotten a 3500 SRW.
Our 32’ 5er has a pin at 2,800#, with what I carry in the truck, we would have been tight with a Ram 3500 SRW at 12,300# GVWR.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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12-28-2020, 11:38 AM
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#15
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewbldavis
I mentioned for him to check his ACTUAL payload. I very highly doubt he needs a 1-ton dually for a 32ft. 5th wheel...but I digress...
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One ton dually ?? No, but here's the facts on his ACTUAL trailer choice and the "probable facts" on his ACTUAL truck payload:
Keystone's advertised shipping (dry) weight for the trailer is 8,898 lb. (no propane, no battery, no spare tire, empty FW and holding tanks)
Carrying Capacity 2,102 lb. for a trailer GVW of 11,000 pounds.
Hitch 1,630 lb.
Length 32' 10"
Doing a "quick down and dirty calculation" the advertised pin weight 1680 is only 18.3% of the advertised shipping weight 8898. That's not even the "bottom recommended 20% pin weight" and nowhere close to the "usual real weight of 22%. So, the "pie in the sky" hope is not the same as "reality weights" that we've all seen in nearly every "real world experience at the CAT scale".....
RAM advertises, in their 2020 towing guide, the 2500 RAM 6'4" bed Big Horn diesel crew cab 4x4 as having a payload (depending on model options) somewhere between 1860-2710 pounds.
So, hitching the EMPTY trailer with full propane tanks (60 lbs) and a single GP 24 battery (40 lbs) using an Andersen 40 pound hitch (even though he said his truck has the RAM puck system), puts the EMPTY pin weight at 1630+60+40+40 = 1770 pounds
Now, if his truck is in the "low payload statistic" (1860-1770=90) so if he weighs more than 90 pounds, his truck is overloaded... That means with NOTHING in the trailer, no DW in the passenger's seat and nothing in any door pocket in his truck.
So, let's "assume" his truck has the largest payload in the RAM chart: 2710-1770=940. Assuming he weighs 200 pounds and his DW weighs 150 pounds, that leaves him with the following: 2710-1770-350=590. That's a total of 590 pounds for ALL the cargo in the truck, any additional passengers or a pet, ALL the cargo added to the trailer, ALL the camping supplies, tools and equipment required to be safe on the highways (jack, lug wrench, etc).
So, as I suggested, depending on HIS yellow sticker, he may be overloaded with the empty trailer or he may have a "razor thin margin" if HIS yellow sticker is the "highest payload in that model RAM.....
Not to argue with you, but, the "best he can expect" is to have to "fight payload weight every trip" and the probable outcome is that he'll be "exactly where he was when he tried to tow his current trailer with his half ton truck and found out he needed a bigger tow vehicle.
Two "old sayings" come to mind:
1. Stupid is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome.
2. History repeats itself for those who didn't learn the first time.
IMHO, if he buys an 11,000 pound trailer with an empty (shipping) pin weight of 1680 and hitches it to "that truck" then he's going to have the same problem that caused him to trade his old truck in on this one....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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12-28-2020, 01:50 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,467
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The OP hasn't been on since this morning and suspect he may be a working man. Every possible bit of advice has been poured into this thread so let him get out to his truck and look at the payload. Besides, Keystone calls that camper a 1/2 ton towable I think... great marketing!
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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12-28-2020, 02:08 PM
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#17
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,757
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"1/2 ton towable" is about as truthful as....
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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12-28-2020, 04:01 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Big Springs
Posts: 197
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A question I remember form a Ford Diesel site before I bought my first 1 ton crew cab dually diesel back in 01 was "Have you ever heard someone complain about having too much truck"?
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You can never be late if you have nowhere to go.
2013 F-350 Dually King Ranch 6.7 Diesel
2014 Cougar 337FLS
Summer-Nebraska Winter-Arizona area
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12-28-2020, 06:27 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 543
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Wow, thanks for all the input and especially with all the numbers.
The yellow sticker on the door frame of my Ram states do not exceed 2097 lbs. The pic of it is on my phone so I'm not sure how to post it from my phone to my tablet I use for the forums.
The other reason I also like that 5er is that it is only 32' long, which is almost 3' shorter than my current TT. But I do not want to be in the same situation as I was with the GMC 1500.
And yes, I still work full time, at Harbor Freight. So I just got home about an hour ago.
__________________
Dan (USAF Retired)
2021 Cougar 290RLS w the Andersen Ultimate
2022 Ram 3500 SRW Big Horn Mega Cab
6.7L I6 CTD with Air Suspension
6 Speed Automatic 68RFE Transmission
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12-29-2020, 08:55 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canton
Posts: 289
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John, valid points. I will admit I was not thinking about the diesel...though GM seems to be working on better payload for diesel 2500's. Hopefully they can all figure it out. Seems pointless to offer it if the truck can't handle enough weight.
Dan - that darn Diesel screws the pooch on 2500's. My payload is 500# more than yours, and that is with only 9500# GVWR!
I hop on here at lunch...dreaming of retirement...only like 20 to go...
__________________
Eddy
2019 GMC Sierra 2500HD 6.0L
2020 Cougar 32BHS
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