2020 Cougar Front Window Leak Repair

[RVEagle]

Our brand new Cougar 34TSB has a leak apparently at the front window - big windshield type window with a rubber seal around it. At first I thought it was coming in through the accent lighting above the window (and there may have been a leak there also - but I caulked that with silicone and it looks sealed) but after carefully spraying the front of the trailer (avoiding the accent lighting) at the window, with a hose, there is water running down inside the window and collecting at the base of the window. This happens after rain, also. I've contacted the nearest authorized repair center and they said they can't look at until late May. I contacted Keystone and they approved me adding a silicone bead around the window, without voiding the warranty, until I can get it to the shop. So, does anyone have any experience with this type of problem/seal/window? What's the best silicone to use, how/where should it be applied? Thanks in advance!

[sourdough]

I wouldn't use straight silicone. It is very hard to manage, doesn't look very good when done and more importantly, won't come off without one heck of a fight.

In your situation I would personally go find some siliconized caulk in a matching (as close as you can) color and put a thin bead around the edge of that rubber molding until they can get it in. It should stop the leak if that's where it's coming from, come off easily when they repair it and you won't see those ugly smear lines that silicone leaves. Barring something really wrong, with a proper repair the seal should be enough to seal that window and sealant shouldn't be required going forward - I say that but haven't actually worked on one of those big front windows; I'm mentally comparing it more or less to an automotive windshield.

[Logan X]

I’m not sure adding a bead of sealant is the best option. If you do apply sealant, don’t use silicone. For any “silicone type applications” I use Proflex made by geocell. It is made for use with RV’s. If you do use Proflex be aware that you can’t really smooth the bead with your finger. I would tape off the edges with painters tape, lay the bead, and remove the tape while it is still wet.

I’m not sure how much you have looked at it but I would take a real close look at the window seal to see if I could identify where the leak is happening and maybe find a solution depending on what you can see.

Someone else will probably chime in with different information but I would only apply sealant where there wasn’t any from the factory as my last option.

Here is a link for Proflex-

https://www.amazon.com/Geocel-GC2810.../dp/B001FC98X2

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I wouldn't use straight silicone. It is very hard to manage, doesn't look very good when done and more importantly, won't come off without one heck of a fight.

In your situation I would personally go find some siliconized caulk in a matching (as close as you can) color and put a thin bead around the edge of that rubber molding until they can get it in. It should stop the leak if that's where it's coming from, come off easily when they repair it and you won't see those ugly smear lines that silicone leaves. Barring something really wrong, with a proper repair the seal should be enough to seal that window and sealant shouldn't be required going forward - I say that but haven't actually worked on one of those big front windows; I'm mentally comparing it more or less to an automotive windshield.

Danny’s suggestion is also good. Use a more temporary caulk that can be easily removed when the permanent repair is done.

[RVEagle]

Originally Posted by Logan X

I’m not sure adding a bead of sealant is the best option. If you do apply sealant, don’t use silicone. For any “silicone type applications” I use Proflex made by geocell. It is made for use with RV’s. If you do use Proflex be aware that you can’t really smooth the bead with your finger. I would tape off the edges with painters tape, lay the bead, and remove the tape while it is still wet.

I’m not sure how much you have looked at it but I would take a real close look at the window seal to see if I could identify where the leak is happening and maybe find a solution depending on what you can see.

Someone else will probably chime in with different information but I would only apply sealant where there wasn’t any from the factory as my last option.

Here is a link for Proflex-

https://www.amazon.com/Geocel-GC2810.../dp/B001FC98X2

Mike, there really is no 'sealant' visible at the window. Only the rubber gasket shown in the picture. Do you think there should have been a caulk like sealant?

[JRTJH]

If the new Cougar front windshields are installed like they were on other brands 4 or 5 years ago, they are very similar to the way rear windows were installed in pick up trucks. There's an H gasket, the truck window lip rides in the outside part of the H and the glass rides on the inside part of the H.

So, if you have what I "think" you have, there's either a turned over piece of gasket, there's a "non-fitted" gap somewhere around the outside (fiberglass to gasket) or there's a deformed part of the gasket (probably in the corner curves) that is pooling water, leaking under the gasket, around the glass and into the trailer interior...

If you can access the entire inside part of the gasket (you may have to remove some moldings) you should be able to use a flashlight and a magnifying glass to locate any stains where water has been entering the trailer by traveling around the glass.

If you don't find anything there, then carefully check the inside of the H gasket between the front cap and the gasket.

One of the two, the glass to gasket or the front cap to gasket is leaking.

I wouldn't put silicone on the surface. It's hard to clean off (dealers won't spend lots of time cleaning it up, they'll just caulk over it and cause problems later, when the warranty has expired) and it will mask the source of the leak (assuming you put the silicone where the leak is located...

Silicone is a "patch" not a "repair of the leak". It's better not to patch it, have the dealer document "could not duplicate" and still have the problem....

ADDED: have you "positively" ruled out the chance of a leak at the front cap/roof seal and/or at one of the two front clearance lights and/or at the "wire end" of the "accent/mood lights" ???

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by RVEagle

Mike, there really is no 'sealant' visible at the window. Only the rubber gasket shown in the picture. Do you think there should have been a caulk like sealant?

No, I don’t think there should have been any sealant there from the factory and I probably would not add any sealant to the area unless all other means had been exhausted. I suspect what JRTJH said about the “H gasket” not seating properly (or something along those lines) is your issue and I would look for something like that.

[sourdough]

I will chime in as well and agree that I doubt there was any kind of sealant placed around that window. In fact, I may be mistaken but I believe I read about one coming out....somewhere.

The advice on a bead of sealant is with the thought the seal has been thoroughly inspected and still leaks plus it should come right off when the dealer repairs it. If it hasn't been that would be the very first thing to do.

[travelin texans]

In my honest opinion there's no where on a RV, or anything else, where straight silicone caulk should be used.

[Summergirl]

You could try sealing the area with gaffers tape to see if or where it is leaking. Gaffers tape sticks great and pulls off clean. We used it in the hot dessert sun for a week on our camper and no issues.

[roadglide]

My window leaked on top there is a seam right in the center and when it rain water poured In side the window and socked the carpet. I found the leak with the water hose and repaired it was silicone five years ago. At the time the silicone repair look good until it gets dirty and there’s no way to clean it. I have had no other leaks and thankfully it was the slide or there would have water damage .

[RVEagle]

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. Here's a picture I just took where I'm pulling away the rubber H gasket at the location where the leak seems to be, based on the water running down the inside of the window. When I probed around under the seal with a plastic putty knife I came across this anomaly. Note, my probing did not cause the anomaly. I'm going to call the raised material 'plastic sealant' because that's what it feels like - I don't know what the material is, it may be the butyl rubber tape I read about. To the right of the raised area there is basically no 'plastic sealant' visible. To the left of the of the raised area it is visible for a little bit - say 2", but disappears as you travel around the curve. As I look at other areas there's no 'plastic sealant' visible. It seems obvious that the anomaly is the cause of the leak, I just don't know if the 'plastic sealant' is supposed to visible around the whole glass (a big mistake since it is not there), or it shouldn't be (a small localized mistake). Based on the comments here I'm considering using Gorilla Duct Tape to cover the area of the seal (maybe the whole top edge) instead of caulk. It's black like the area and it is supposed to be Weather Resistant (I don't have the waterproof version on hand - but this is supposed to be only temporary). Please keep the comments coming.

[sourdough]

It appears you may have found the culprit. By looking I doubt that window/gasket is supposed to have sealant, particularly a "blob", as you have found. It's even more suspect since it is the area where the leak is and there is no other sealant anywhere else. I'm thinking instead of trying to use Gorilla tape and make a temporary repair, why don't you just remove that blob and see if you don't fix your problem just as the dealership is going to do....but you get it done without all the hassle of taking it in.

Here is a link to a little video showing installing a windshield without globs of sealant. Realize that there are several ways to install auto glass; with sealant and many do nowadays, and without as many others do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2eG1_1Ed3M

The video uses a locking strip which I doubt yours has but the placement of the window into the seal strip is the basic concept.

[JRTJH]

The Cougar front window is not installed like "modern windshields" rather it's installed (in the H gasket) like old pickup rear windows...

ADDED: There should be no "blob of sealant" on the gasket. I'd guess that the reason it's there is that someone QC at the factory or the PDI team at the dealership found the leak and "blobbed it to stop the water"... Only problem, it seems they didn't go back to check if their "blob worked"....

Take a look at this video and it'll explain it much better than I can with "typing"..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKRIcaWUZA

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The Cougar front window is not installed like "modern windshields" rather it's installed (in the H gasket) like old pickup rear windows...

ADDED: There should be no "blob of sealant" on the gasket. I'd guess that the reason it's there is that someone QC at the factory or the PDI team at the dealership found the leak and "blobbed it to stop the water"... Only problem, it seems they didn't go back to check if their "blob worked"....

Take a look at this video and it'll explain it much better than I can with "typing"..

Gee! Where was the internet when you needed it? I replaced the back window in a 1985 F150 (thanks son) and don't recall it going anything like that (just do it again? Ain't no way). In fact, I had already told DW to be prepared to buy a 2nd one because it was either going in or I was going to "take it out"....or something to that effect. Finally got that inner lip in after using fingers, screwdrivers and most everything else to get it to "lip" over. Rope?!! Who'da thunk it? Now, when I never intend to use that information again....I learn.

[RVEagle]

Again, thanks for weighing in on this. The 'blob' of sealant really isn't a blob, as one would get from a tube of caulk or silicone. It's more like what I imagine the butyl tape would look like. It may be that the tape extruded through the gap between the outer wall of the trailer and the window. you can't install the window like they showed in the video since you can't get to the area where the glass meets the trailer from the inside - without taking apart the entire front of the bedroom - cabinets and all - in my opinion.

[JRTJH]

I'm sure the window is installed in the front cap while it's sitting on the rack in the "front cap buildup area" and is rolled to the trailer, the cap/window assembly is installed on the front of the trailer and it moves on down to the next station on the line. I wouldn't imagine that a lot of "preplanning" went into the question, "How do we replace the front window at the dealership?" My guess is the factory leaves that up to the dealer, the customer and the insurance company. Hopefully your dealership can get the leak fixed properly without having to pull the front cap. My guess is that the blob was their first failed attempt. Good Luck with negotiating a good fix with the dealer......

[sourdough]

I've looked multiple times at your pics but just can't figure how that window is in there. Is it in the same plane as the exterior walls it slides into? Recessed? Elevated?

I'm having a difficult time envisioning them putting in a window that has to have the front cap removed, or something similar, to repair it (say a rock hits it). Surely they were thinking of that; on the other hand, it's an RV and thinking they were thinking when they designed or put it together can sometimes be a stretch.

If you put something under the outer lip of that seal can you actually pull it back enough to see/feel the edge of the glass. Maybe the inner side of the seal is set but the glass can go in from the front? Probably with a lot of effort if it was the case. Might check for grins but since it's under warranty I wouldn't do anything drastic - find a temp fix and let them take care of it hopefully.

[Summergirl]

Originally Posted by RVEagle

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. Here's a picture I just took where I'm pulling away the rubber H gasket at the location where the leak seems to be, based on the water running down the inside of the window. When I probed around under the seal with a plastic putty knife I came across this anomaly. Note, my probing did not cause the anomaly. I'm going to call the raised material 'plastic sealant' because that's what it feels like - I don't know what the material is, it may be the butyl rubber tape I read about. To the right of the raised area there is basically no 'plastic sealant' visible. To the left of the of the raised area it is visible for a little bit - say 2", but disappears as you travel around the curve. As I look at other areas there's no 'plastic sealant' visible. It seems obvious that the anomaly is the cause of the leak, I just don't know if the 'plastic sealant' is supposed to visible around the whole glass (a big mistake since it is not there), or it shouldn't be (a small localized mistake). Based on the comments here I'm considering using Gorilla Duct Tape to cover the area of the seal (maybe the whole top edge) instead of caulk. It's black like the area and it is supposed to be Weather Resistant (I don't have the waterproof version on hand - but this is supposed to be only temporary). Please keep the comments coming.


Attachment 26617

Don’t use gorilla duct tape for a temporary fix. The glue will be really hard to get off. Gaffer tape will seal it off for a temporary fix but will come off clean. Sun will bake the gorilla tape on and will be really hard to remove.
Been there done that. We used gaffer tape in the desert sun last year and it came off really clean. It it mainly used for theatres in their lighting.

[RVEagle]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I've looked multiple times at your pics but just can't figure how that window is in there. Is it in the same plane as the exterior walls it slides into? Recessed? Elevated?

I'm having a difficult time envisioning them putting in a window that has to have the front cap removed, or something similar, to repair it (say a rock hits it). Surely they were thinking of that; on the other hand, it's an RV and thinking they were thinking when they designed or put it together can sometimes be a stretch.

If you put something under the outer lip of that seal can you actually pull it back enough to see/feel the edge of the glass. Maybe the inner side of the seal is set but the glass can go in from the front? Probably with a lot of effort if it was the case. Might check for grins but since it's under warranty I wouldn't do anything drastic - find a temp fix and let them take care of it hopefully.

Sourdough - I think the glass is installed more like a windshield, as in your video, than a pickup rear window as in John's video. The glass is in the same plane as the end cap with the rubber gasket providing the outer seal. The rubber seal seams tight enough to seal but apparently it doesn't. The raised plastic like material anomaly could be the butyl rubber seal that glues the window to the end cap like in your video, but maybe has a void where it extruded out to the gap? I sure would like to see a cross-section schematic as to how this window is supposed to be installed!