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Old 03-30-2016, 12:58 PM   #1
wbdvt
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Illegal to live in RV?

Please watch the attached to see what the fed gov is proposing. It would apparently make it illegal to live in your RV, so full timers take note.

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Old 03-30-2016, 02:56 PM   #2
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Let's see, how do you phrase this......bogus as a football bat.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:22 PM   #3
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But it's on the Internet it must be true so why check it out.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:48 PM   #4
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Try this one.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/SECRS/...95694932_1.pdf
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:37 PM   #5
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CW, I did not read thru every line on every page of that to see what if anything happened. Since that was dated 2011 any idea how or what happened since than.
I did not open the utube on the first post as I would not trust it being from utube. So, no comment on what ever it said.
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:17 PM   #6
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I watched the video and went to the official government site to review this. I'm not a lawyer. What I'm reading looks like more government regulations and meddling in our lives and the lifestyle of those that either full time or will some day. Reading it all only takes a few minutes. Take the time and comment.
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:17 PM   #7
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Ok, today I took time to listen to the 1st half of the u tube. Than as we all should do if you believe what people say on the internet or u tube. I went to the .gov site and read it. It states Park Models, no other type of rv. And says if the park model is sold by a maker. It must have a letter on it saying that if is not designed as a full time live it home and not built to HUD standards as a full time live in home. If it follows HUD rules than it does not need the letter. Is this a big deal? you decide. Again nothing about 5ers, TTs or truck campers only Park models. in the rule/law that I read. A different story than what the guy is saying on the u tube. I found in 2008 that Pacific county Wa state had a similar law back than. I have owned property there since 2001. I also found that the law has never been enforced. And that what the guy is talking about is only a fed proposed rule/law. If it concerns you or could again go to the site, read the rule/law and maybe make your opinion know to the feds. All though I like looking at a 6 shooter in a nice holster rig. I think the guy is a little nutty. He needs to look into the camera while speaking, not turning or putting his head down.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:15 AM   #8
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I seem to remember somewhere in my owners manual Keystone's disclaimer stating that my trailer was not designed for permanent use. IF this bill is past there will be a drastic increase in homeless folks in Florida and FEMA will have no way of housing after a disaster. I would think from looking at the dates on some of these posts that they have gone where they belong. Just some politician trying to justify his existence.
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankpage View Post
I seem to remember somewhere in my owners manual Keystone's disclaimer stating that my trailer was not designed for permanent use. IF this bill is past there will be a drastic increase in homeless folks in Florida and FEMA will have no way of housing after a disaster. I would think from looking at the dates on some of these posts that they have gone where they belong. Just some politician trying to justify his existence.


The comment period ends 11 Apr 2016. Yesterday there were less than 300 comments. I doubt that number will sway any bureaucrats to not make the change. You never know.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:40 PM   #10
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Wow is all I can say First you can get fined for collecting rainwater and now you can't live in your trailer You guys have some pretty wacky laws if you ask me
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
Wow is all I can say First you can get fined for collecting rainwater and now you can't live in your trailer You guys have some pretty wacky laws if you ask me
Yeah, and things get even wackier when you leave the country.
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Old 04-03-2016, 01:56 PM   #12
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The way I read this it is written up for park models not TTs.
Park models are designed to actually be moved someplace and stay there. Not moved from location to location like TTs.
TTs lived in one place for a few months (like being a Winter Texan) are still not considered a park model.
Said my piece.
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Old 04-09-2016, 05:24 AM   #13
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Howdy All;

I have a "trusted source" and they finally chimed in. My Source is RV Travel Newsletter.
Been a leader in RV lifestyles and information for almost 20 years as well as a trustworthy
source of news in the industry. This morning the weekly newsletter hit the in box and here
is the article with links for further reading. At the bottom I've added the links that didn't
travel well during the copy/paste transfer.

hank


RVers' panic over HUD proposal unfounded (copied from RV Travel Newsletter April 9-17. Issue 737)

By Greg Illes

hud-737It's early April 2016, and the RV Internet is abuzz with gossip, rumor and (fearful) speculation concerning a soon-to-be-released regulatory revision from the HUD government agency that many RVers believed would prohibit full-time RVing. A quick search for "HUD RV" will turn up more threats and worries than a Republican presidential debate.

Quick summary: The rule benefits RVers and does not restrict residency. Here's why:

HUD is an acronym for Housing and Urban Development (you can read its mission statement here). As you can see at its website, HUD is responsible for many aspects of housing regulation in the U.S, too many to summarize here. But in particular, one of HUD's areas of authority is the setting of construction standards for housing.

Recently, HUD published a rule-making proposal in which the wording was perhaps a tad obscure; more proof that lawyers are a distinct species from Homo sapiens. The regulation has to do with using RVs and "tiny houses" as residences, and required some placarding to the effect that the units were not intended for permanent residency. The full text is available here, but few will have the fortitude to read through it — or understand its intent and implications.

The rule sponsored a firestorm of reaction from people who thought their RVs would become "illegal" under the revised regulation — But it was a false alarm. In fact, some of the furor even seems to have been promulgated for sensationalism's sake.

The rule is endorsed by the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) and should not be a cause for RVers' worry.

Detailed Discussions — We have limited space here, but you can read much more about the ruling and its background in some other articles.

One of the better reviews of the whole fracas can be found in the excellent Snopes site, where (with their usual diligence), the writers explore details and concerns surrounding the regulation. You can read that here to get a thorough understanding, and we'll summarize things below.

Another important communication to review is the statement by the RV Industry Association (and others) enthusiastically endorsing the HUD regulation.

And here is another very readable analysis from RV Dreams, with some additional references, providing more clarification and insight.

So what's all the fuss about? Essentially, the confusion — and concern — arose from the wording in the regulation about living in an RV full-time. The phrase "not intended for" permanent residency was never intended to indicate "not permitted for" permanent residency. In fact, the regulation is an important exemption for RV manufacturers, which permits them to create their products independently from the restrictions for fixed housing. In particular, the rule is intended to differentiate RV "housing" from mobile home housing. This is why the RVIA is not only supporting the rule, but actually participated in drafting it.

OK, but what about safety? HUD, and the RVIA, are trying to more explicitly draw the line between fixed and mobile habitats. HUD is clearly responsible for regulating the quality and safety of fixed homes (including mobile homes) — and RVIA is, and wants to be, responsible for similar issues on RV residences.

So can you still live full-time in your RV? This is, and always has been, largely a local regulation issue. Across our vast country there are an equally vast number of regulatory variations on who can live where, and in what. If you look carefully, regulation seems always to be a matter of where the RV is parked — not how long (or permanently) anybody has been living in it. And realistically speaking, what conceivable government agency is going to try to keep track of how many days any of us spend living in our RVs? Even Big Brother doesn't have that many resources.

On balance, it's easy to see that there have been some overreactions to the ruling. Some may even have been intentional, for the sake of hits and clicks on a website. But clearly, the support of RVIA, and analyses by objective reviewers, shows us the actuality of the situation.

LINKS SUMMARY
For easy reference, here are the links mentioned above in the article text:

The ruling https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... creational
HUD mission http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/about/mission
Snopes review http://www.snopes.com/hud-tiny-homes-ban
RVIA statement http://www.rvia.org/?ESID=preleases&PRID=1739&SR=11
RV Dreams article http://www.rv-dreams-journal.com/2016/0 ... rpose.html
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:17 AM   #14
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This is slightly off topic but, I wonder why when government mentions Park Models and RVs in general they do not say something like. Rvs are made to travel and live/camp in at the same time. Park Models at least the one I owned and many I looked at to purchase cannot be used until parked and hooked up to 120v and water and a sewer dump. They have at least here normal flush toilets, appliances that run on 120v only, no 12 volts lighting, and no way to carry propane tanks or water or store dirty water, ie no tanks. They did have propane heating systems but, no way to use it until you sat a tank on the ground, normally a 30 or 55 gallon tank. Really they are a small manufactured home.
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:37 AM   #15
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I don't understand what the issue with 12 volt lighting would be? That's weird and doesn't make anysense!
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:18 PM   #16
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I think Ken is saying that park models, unlike your usual RV, are meant to be set up like your brick house with 120VAC wiring - not 12VDC. Park models are not wired for 12VDC - not that it is an issue - it's just they way they are constructed.
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:22 PM   #17
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K thanks 😊
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
Wow is all I can say First you can get fined for collecting rainwater and now you can't live in your trailer You guys have some pretty wacky laws if you ask me
Here's your rainwater


http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/rainwater.asp
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Old 04-10-2016, 01:49 AM   #19
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That's just Oregon.

While I doubt you'd suffer jail time from it, collecting (or as the water engineers like to call it, "diverting") rainwater in the arid high desert of the Colorado Front Range, is often not allowed by both city ordinance and also by our incredibly complex and strict water rights law.

Yes Virgina, we do have a Water Court -- it's that big of a deal. Depending on the water district you live in under the State Engineer's district map, your property may be handled under water court, or you may be handled by the State Engineer directly. My neighborhood is cut down the middle and I'm on the State side. People a mile west go to water court.

Recently I applied for, and was granted, water rights not only for my well and aquifer it penetrates, but for the two other deeper aquifers below that one. This is pretty standard paperwork but many older non-restricted residential wells had not had it done. In addition to that, via a water rights attorney, a number of my neighbors and myself combined our water rights into a "well field" with rights to terminate involvement in the "field" at will, making it much simpler if some disaster befell the upper aquifer, to join forces to build a much deeper well into the second lower aquifer and run piping from the single well head to all of the properties that "touch" each other and are permitted together.

Often entire neighborhoods do this, but it costs a couple hundred bucks per property to get the paperwork filed and the well field plots done, and some of the neighbors appear to be too broke for even that, or don't care, so our 'hood has about ten "well fields" now of the separate properties that wanted this water rights permit request filed.

That's just the well rights.

An example of "water diversions" that also are highly regulated would be things like installing private roads on private property above grade.

Many municipalities and counties have limitations on how many roads may be installed without a variance approved (in my county, you may install and maintain ONE road from any county road onto private property) and that road may not impede water flow across your land -- in other words, you can't cheat and use a road to make a pond or holding area for water, there must be a culvert and proper grading to allow water to flow across the property as it would have without the installation of the road. If the culvert becomes blocked and isn't cleared out, the land owner may be fined for their part in diversion of someone else's groundwater.

If you wish to move your road, you must tear down the old road and return it to grade or apply for a variance to keep both. Variances are rarely approved without proven need.

In the larger municipalities of Denver (with storm drains and what-not), the limitation is usually that rainwater may not be trapped or impeded in any way which would keep it from leaving the property via normal run off. Usually this is enforced via code enforcement in the form of fines that increase significantly after the first warning. I suppose if one ignored the fines long enough, someone could request a bench warrant be issued.

The Rocky Mountain West and Desert Southwest have seen people killed over water, especially in the past. Every drop of it that falls is accounted for, and must be generally allowed to flow downstream.

Most aquifers in high desert are non-replenishable and have no way to naturally refill once they run dry, and initial law here assumed 100 year water levels, which is turning out to be, obviously, too short. There's rumblings of extending that to 200 or more for proper planning purposes.

One of the reasons to stake one's claim on the aquifers below any piece of real estate here, is that certain entire municipalities pump hundreds of thousands of gallons up per year from the second lowest aquifer, and unrestricted residential wells are not protected from those municipalities using the water in the lower aquifers unless the property owners file for the rights "all the way down" so to speak.

Castle Rock, CO - a popular place to move to in the past decade, is an example of this sort of poor water planning. The entire municipal water system is served by pumping water from a non-replenishable aquifer (Arapahoe) and eventually the city (and other users) will deplete it. The city has no groundwater rights whatsoever. Every drop that falls on the town is already legally claimed by someone else.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:56 AM   #20
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Regarding my last post. Post # 16 has it correct. Sorry about any misunderstanding.
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