Fuzion 302 and Sailun S637's

Jager · 05-15-2014, 03:53 AM

Well like many I am moving to the Sailun's because the junk E load rated tires are simply not enough to support the weight of the camper.

So I checked the wheels, HiSpec Series 06, and they are rated for 110psi and 3,960 lbs. Great. Bought the tires and had them mounted. New tires are amazingly different from the Goodyear Marathons by the way. Took new tires and wheels home and put them on RV.

Problem: The 235/85R16 Sailun's are about 1 1/2" taller than the 235/80R16's I replaced. Plenty of room in the wheel well and between tires except that Keystone in the infinite wisdom, added some kind of support bracket directly above the rear tire. With the OEM tires I have about 3 1/4" of clearance between tire and bracket but with the new Sailun's I only have about 1 1/2" of clearance.

I'll post some photos later. This sucks. The stupid bracket could have been mounted 3" to the rear and I would have NO issue, but no, they put it directly over the top of the tire. I just don't feel good about this amount of clearance.

Have any of you run into this?

I guess I have a few different options.
1) Jack up the RV. I could take it to a suspension shop and add spacers between the axle and the RV. The next effect will be a taller RV. I'm at 13' 8" now. Not really sure about adding another 2" to that.

2) Cut the bracket out and move it to the rear about 3". I really can't see any disadvantage to doing this right now. It is hard to believe that there is anything critical about it's current location.

3) I guess I could go back to 235/80R16's except no one makes a G load rated tire in that size. So in my mind that isn't an option.

I'm leaning towards #2 right now. Any other ideas?

Quad · 05-15-2014, 04:05 AM

I would cycle the suspension as much as possible and check for clearance as close as you can get it. If there isn't enough room. I would take door 2 myself. Hard to say without seeing it. But just face valve looking at your issue relocation of the bracket makes most sense. What's the bracket purpose? What is it supporting?

2005 Silverado 2500HD D/A
2013 Laredo 321BH

Jager · 05-15-2014, 09:17 AM

What is the bracket for? Darn good question because it can't provide much support if you ask me. Only thing I can figure is some small amount of floor support. They are installed at exactly the same spot on both sides for whatever that is worth. So it isn't some unique support or attachment on each side. I'll look at them closer tonight.

Here are some photos of what I'm talking about. These are pretty close up so the dimensions are pretty small. The photos with the smaller space are obviously the side with the Sailun's and the photos with the larger space are the old Goodyear Marathon's.

First 3 photos are with Sailun's and next 2 are with GY's. You can see the bracket best in the 2nd photo.

Jager · 05-15-2014, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quad

I would cycle the suspension as much as possible and check for clearance as close as you can get it. . . .

Just wondering . . . without driving it down the road how would you cycle the suspension?

I can go drag the RV down the road but have no clue how I would be able to see what is going on in the wheel well while I'm pulling it?

I'd love to have a video recorder taped inside the wheel well recording while I drag the camper over some good sized bumps. but . . . how? Maybe one of my kids has one of those helmet cams I can borrow and rig up?

Also, in case the tires will hit the bracket . . . they are brand new tires. I really don't want to damage them trying to figure out if they will clear.

**JRTJH** · 05-15-2014, 10:27 AM

I "think" the bracket you've pictured is one of the several "outriggers" used to support the sides of the structure beyond the frame. On my Cougar the outriggers are about 5' tall and extend from the frame rail to the outer edge of the RV (about 13"). In the wheel well area, the outriggers are only about 2" tall and extend the same 13".

I'd suppose that your Alpine is probably constructed the same way, "beefier outriggers" where they can be fitted and "skinny outriggers" where the clearance is needed. If the bracket you've pictured is welded to the frame and bolted to the RV side at the other end, it's an outrigger. Moving them forward (to the center of the wheelwell) or aft to allow for tire clearance shouldn't make any difference in structural integrity of the coach.

You can buy new outriggers from Lippert at their home page storefront. Or, much simpler, just cut out one that's similar and that will fit your application. I wouldn't completely cut it away and not replace it slightly forward or aft of where it's currently located. There's no telling how much stress the framework of the sidewalls put on the outriggers in that location with the bouncing that goes with the suspension in that same area.

Jager · 05-16-2014, 06:26 AM

JRTJH what you describe is exactly what I think they are. They are welded to the frame rails and extend out about 12" or 13" to the side of the camper. I don't see how they can be doing much. Sure they add some support but it can't be a huge amount. The photos below are with the wheel removed to allow for some good clearance and the ability to see better.

I had no clue that you could just buy some of these. I will google the store you mentioned and see if I can just order some. I could have them fabed locally but it would be simpler to just buy some if I can find them.

Jager · 05-16-2014, 06:30 AM

John is this the place you were talking about? Is this the Lippert you mentioned?

http://www.lippertcomponents.com/

EDIT:
Ya, I think I found the place you were talking about. They have several outriggers of different sizes. I'll have to measure mine and order it.

http://store.lci1.com/chassis-components-c35.aspx

**JRTJH** · 05-16-2014, 06:53 AM

Yes, you found the right place at Lippert. Sorry I didn't think to add the link in my response last night.

As for your comment, "Sure they add some support but it can't be a huge amount." They actually support the entire side frame of your RV on the bottom of the sidewall frame. The RV floor structure and sidewalls are attached to the "BIG" crossmembers at the front and rear of the frame rails, but the outriggers are all that supports the sides of the RV along the entire length of the frame from front to rear. Moving one a few inches "shouldn't" be an issue, but simply cutting it out and leaving that part of the sidewall unsupported could induce some unwanted flexing and eventual weakening of the sidewall base rail. That could lead to fiberglass weakening, cracking and failure. You want to make sure you keep the outriggers intact, just moved slightly forward/aft to accommodate your clearance for tires.

Good Luck, and find a "good welder" to make your modifications !!!!!

ADDED: I was just looking at your pictures you added. You might want to make sure the wheelwell outer structure is well supported also. You might need to add a strip of angle along the place where the outriggers are attached to span that area if there's not enough support to keep the fender skirts rigid along the top ????

Jager · 05-16-2014, 10:25 AM

I took a closer look at it and found some of the other outriggers. A full sized outrigger is 13 1/2" x 6 1/2" tall. The ones over top of the tires have already been cut down very significantly. The ones over the tires are only 2 1/2" at the wide end (missing 4"). I'm not even sure I'm going to waste time with buying a prefabed outrigger. I think I'm just going to weld in some 1/4" plate just 3" or 4" in back of the outrigger. That should be plenty of support (more than there is now I think).

The outrigger is bolted to the floor of outside frame some how. I have NO way to get inside the wall to do anything like that. There is a small steel runner on top of the outrigger in place today that runs to the rear. You can see it in the photos. I'll just weld to that.

No worries on the welder . . . I know some good ones who do it professionally. I just need to get this done very soon, before mid June.

Thanks for all the help.

Toy Teacher · 05-17-2014, 08:13 AM

I installed a set of Goodyear G614 RST tires which the Sailun's are a copy of on my 302 Fuzion and had the same thoughts but I have never had a problem with tire contact with that bracket...

**JRTJH** · 05-17-2014, 09:16 AM

The Goodyear G614 RST in size LT235/85R16 G overall diameter is listed in the Goodyear specs as 30.7"

The Sailun S637 in size 235/85R16 (G) overall diameter is listed in the Sailun specs as 31.7".

While they might well be a "copy" of each other in application and in load capability, they are not the same "height" when installed on wheels and mounted on the trailer.

That extra 1" could mean a world of difference in actual use.

Toy Teacher · 05-17-2014, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The Goodyear G614 RST in size LT235/85R16 G overall diameter is listed in the Goodyear specs as 30.7"

The Sailun S637 in size 235/85R16 (G) overall diameter is listed in the Sailun specs as 31.7".

While they might well be a "copy" of each other in application and in load capability, they are not the same "height" when installed on wheels and mounted on the trailer.

That extra 1" could mean a world of difference in actual use.

So that would mean there is a 1/2 inch difference between the Goodyear and the Sailun when it comes to that bracket.

**JRTJH** · 05-17-2014, 01:21 PM

Yup, that's about the 'size" of it LOL

It won't make any difference if you've got 3" of clearance and 2.5" of suspension travel, but it would make a world of difference if you've got 3" of clearance and 3" of suspension travel.

1/2" doesn't seem like much (until you get right down to the "nitty gritty")...

Jager · 05-19-2014, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Teacher

I installed a set of Goodyear G614 RST tires which the Sailun's are a copy of on my 302 Fuzion and had the same thoughts but I have never had a problem with tire contact with that bracket...

If you get a minute and could put a tape between your tires and the bracket I'd appreciate it. I realize it is a hard thing to measure but any reference at all would help. I went with the Sailun's mainly due to price. The GY's are 2x the Sailun's. It was hard to justify the $320+ price per tire for the GY's.

I did order a couple of the outrigger brackets and hope to have them welded on early next week. If I am successful with that I will cut the one's over the tires back at least an inch.

Interesting . . . after JRTJH explained what they were and how relatively important they really are . . . it is clear that Keystone hacked them up already. An un-cut outrigger is nearly 7" wide at the frame side. The ones over the tire are less than 3". They clearly cut these back for clearance issues for the old, smaller E rated tires. Why or why do they do cheap crap like this. How hard would it have to have been to just move them to the rear by 3" or 4" when they were building the chassis?

Man . . .

**JRTJH** · 05-19-2014, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

If you get a minute and could put a tape between your tires and the bracket I'd appreciate it. I realize it is a hard thing to measure but any reference at all would help. I went with the Sailun's mainly due to price. The GY's are 2x the Sailun's. It was hard to justify the $320+ price per tire for the GY's.

I did order a couple of the outrigger brackets and hope to have them welded on early next week. If I am successful with that I will cut the one's over the tires back at least an inch.

Interesting . . . after JRTJH explained what they were and how relatively important they really are . . . it is clear that Keystone hacked them up already. An un-cut outrigger is nearly 7" wide at the frame side. The ones over the tire are less than 3". They clearly cut these back for clearance issues for the old, smaller E rated tires. Why or why do they do cheap crap like this. How hard would it have to have been to just move them to the rear by 3" or 4" when they were building the chassis?
Man . . .

It does seem like a poor way to resolve a clearance issue, but remember, Keystone doesn't build the frame. Lippert builds the frames (supposedly to Keystone's specs) but in this world, if Keystone specs a frame and Jayco specs a similar frame and they are "really close" to the same, is it possible that Lippert made the decision to make them both the same rather than "rejig" the layout??? or is it possible that some "Jayco frames" got shipped to Keystone??? or is it possible that as they were building the RV's they realized an issue, repaired the problem and "respec'ed" the location of "wheel well outriggers" on future frames???

I'm not defending Keystone's actions, they should have fixed it "right", but in the engineer's point of view, that may well have been what he called for and what the line workers were instructed to do..... It's too close?? Well cut it out so it will fit

goingwest · 05-20-2014, 04:48 PM

Could you not replace factory bracket with a piece of angle iron like 4x3 or 4x2. Put the 4" up against the floor and the 2" turned down. Thus moving the bracket back 4" but still supporting the same place,
Jerry

Toy Teacher · 05-20-2014, 05:40 PM

[QUOTE=Jager;128031]If you get a minute and could put a tape between your tires and the bracket I'd appreciate it. I realize it is a hard thing to measure but any reference at all would help. I went with the Sailun's mainly due to price. The GY's are 2x the Sailun's. It was hard to justify the $320+ price per tire for the GY's.

No problem will do... I'm bring the trailer home tomorrow from storage to install a Mor/ryde pin box so I will measure it and let you know.

Jager · 05-21-2014, 08:44 AM

Thanks Toy Teacher.

Goingwest - ya, that is basically what I'm going to have to do.

Toy Teacher · 05-21-2014, 05:02 PM

Well I did not bring the trailer home today due to the weather here in the Ohio Valley area

I left it indoors due to the treat of hail.. But should be good tomorrow and will get you the measurements.

Jager · 05-22-2014, 09:00 AM

No worries. I would have done the same. Last year I finally built a garage large enough to store my camper in.

One other question for you, when you do the measure on the tire spacing let me know if you have anything in the garage of the Fuzion. Also do you have a full tank of gas in the gas station?

You said you haven't had any issue towing with the larger tires on it, what do you carry in the garage? How much weight? We sometimes have a jet ski on a trailer in there or 2 ATVs or 2 street bikes. I would estimate we run around 1,200 lbs in there plus a few hundred in gear. But we almost always have a full gas load which is another ~250 lbs.

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