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Old 09-09-2020, 09:11 AM   #1
mrcotton
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2018 Keystone Passport 171EXP with floor damage at low price - should I buy

Hello

We are looking to upgrade our Starcraft Centennial HW pop-up to a hybrid. We love our pop-up -- very roomy and spacious - but looking for something that is easier to load/unload and setup. We tow with a Mercedes ML250 diesel which has a 6600lb tow capacity - although the hitch weight is only 500lbs..

We looked at a used 2018 Passport 171exp hybrid trailer yesterday at a dealer. The trailer looks to be in otherwise good shape - but there is floor damage to the trailer in the front. The vinyl was not attached and could be pulled up - and it revealed that the top layer luan had split at the edge of the front underbed storage and there are a couple of places in the aisle (parallel to the sofa) which are raised - a ridge or hill about 7-8" long. It didn't appear to be water damage - couldn't see any spots or discoloration -- but I am not sure how this kind of damage would have happened. The dealer is willing to knock off almost 4.7K off his asking price (which was $2K higher to begin with) with an included inspection if we were willing to fix ourselves.

I am quite handy at fixing things and the price seems tempting - so just thought I would reach out and get some more opinions from this forum .

Thanks
Sam
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:24 AM   #2
jsb5717
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Wow, that's really a personal choice. I don't have any advice since it's hard to tell the extent of the needed repair. I'm a pretty handy person and not afraid to dig in to fix a problem. But for me I don't want to intentionally buy that kind of problem...especially without knowing the cause of the damage. Fixing the cause might be more investment than the coach is worth and way more than any potential savings vs one that doesn't need repairing. Just fixing the floor without knowing the cause could just be an expensive bandaid. JMHO

Edit: if the dealer is willing to knock that much off of the price then it likely isn't worth their time and expense to fix it. That tells me that the cost of repair, even at their cost and with their resources, is pretty high. You're going to end up spending your savings, or more, just to fix it without any guarantee that it won't happen again. Me? I'd take a hard pass

Added: Welcome aboard! I should have said that first. You've come to the right place to get some knowledgeable advice. Good luck in your searching.
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:06 AM   #3
flybouy
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Personally, I'd run and never look back. Hybrids are notorious for leaking. Great big heavy openings on the end of a box that's shaking and racking (twisting) going down the road. Water travels from whoever it enters to the floor from the pull of gravity. If the leak is from the top of where the bed pulls out and runs down the floor that means water has damaged that entire area.

While the damage, rotting wood under the flooring, is visible I'll bet there's a LOT more damage that either isn't yet visible or that you just don't recognize. It's very easy to be "blinded" by the "gee whiz, this is perfect for us" emotions that can quickly turn into buyer's remorse once you get it home and "wipe the lipstick off of the pig".

JMHO
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:28 AM   #4
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If the "damage appears on the top of the sandwich flooring" then the water intrusion was likely "from above"... That source could be "from a window, from a bed slideout seal, from the roof, from the "J-wrap molding", from a storage door seal or from one of many other locations. If the damage was from "below the top of the sandwich flooring" then it could mean a "complete rework of the entire floor structure"...

One could cost you "a couple thousand" the other could mean "scrapping the entire trailer for parts because rebuilding would cost more than the trailer is/would be worth"....

If you don't have significant experience in removing a travel trailer superstructure from the floor/chassis rails, then I'd suggest steering away from this kind of "inexpensive deal from a dealership".... If there was "money to be made" they'd have already repaired the trailer and marked the sales price up to reflect the maximum profit for the business.... It sure looks like they are "attempting to wholesale a defective trailer to the public because they can't sell it at auction"....

If I were you, I'd not be the "test case on how much can the dealer make from this one" .......

Additionally, you said you're going to be towing with a Mercedes rated at 6600 max trailer/500 pound max tongue weight. That trailer has an EMPTY tongue weight of 410 pounds. By the time you add propane (40 pounds) and a battery (40-50 pounds) and the "required" weight distribution hitch in the receiver (100-150 pounds)you're going to be approaching 600-700 pounds on the hitch. That's well above the maximum receiver rating on your vehicle, and that's before you put the first ounce of camping gear/personal equipment in the trailer. I'd suspect you're looking at significantly overloading your receiver rating with the empty trailer.....
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:06 PM   #5
sourdough
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^^^^^^I was going to highly recommend passing due to any number of reasons, but, they've already been pointed out.
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Old 09-09-2020, 05:14 PM   #6
mrcotton
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Thanks jsb5717 for the welcome and thanks to all who responded.. We will pass on this one. The damage doesn't appear to be from something leaking from the top as far as I could tell - so if it was because of a leak underneath then it's not going to be worth it to fix. The search continues.

As for the ML hitch receiver capacity -- I am going to look into get it reinforced - it's a nice tow vehicle with the exception of the puny hitch rating..

Thanks
Sam
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Old 09-10-2020, 04:27 AM   #7
flybouy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcotton View Post
Thanks jsb5717 for the welcome and thanks to all who responded.. We will pass on this one. The damage doesn't appear to be from something leaking from the top as far as I could tell - so if it was because of a leak underneath then it's not going to be worth it to fix. The search continues.

As for the ML hitch receiver capacity -- I am going to look into get it reinforced - it's a nice tow vehicle with the exception of the puny hitch rating..

Thanks
Sam
Just a reminder here, that rating isn't just the hitch. The payload rating on a vehicle is calculated and determined by the manufacturer with several factors in the equation. The engine, transmission, frame, final drive axle ratio, brakes, wheel bearings, tires, rims, etc. Simply changing the hitch does not increase the load capacity of the vehicle.

Your Merc may be a fine vehicle for what it's designed to do. Towing a camper is NOT what it's designed to do.
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:27 AM   #8
JRTJH
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The "Achilles Heel" of most SUV/crossover vehicles is the "uni-body construction". and is one of the reasons why Ford abandoned the "uni-body concept" with the new Explorer line. While the uni-body is an excellent platform to meet "weight, safety, mileage" mandates, it's a poor choice from a frame rigidity/strength perspective. There's a reason why all "large towing vehicles" have a "frame rail platform" upon which to build the vehicle. There's much MUCH more to building a "good tow vehicle" that isn't included in building a "adequate tow vehicle".....
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:41 AM   #9
jsb5717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcotton View Post
As for the ML hitch receiver capacity -- I am going to look into get it reinforced - it's a nice tow vehicle with the exception of the puny hitch rating..
The above advise is sound. Cars like yours with a tow hitches are for light duty use only...a light utility trailer, a small boat, etc. You've been towing a tent trailer which is likely pushing it's limits.

Towing even a small travel trailer would necessarily put you in need of a 1/2 ton truck ( or large SUV with similar tow and payload ratings) as a starting point. The larger the trailer, the bigger the demand for more robust tow vehicles. You will definitely need to consider the tow vehicle's (TV's) ability to safely tow the weight of the trailer from a chassis, engine, rear end, tranny perspective...vehicles designed to haul more weight are built to handle it. The more important consideration, however, is the TV's payload rating, or it's ability to handle the vertical weight of the towable. Travel trailers place less weight on the rear of a truck than 5th wheels.

Start with a trailer that you would like to consider, use it's published gross vehicle weight to calc for towing. Use 15% of that weight for a travel trailer's pin weight, or 20-25% of that weight for a 5th wheels hitch weight (these are ballpark calcs but will give you a pretty good start). Those numbers will dictate what kind of tow vehicle you will need.

You can post a trailer year and model number here and get all kinds of help in deciding what can pull it safely.
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Old 09-12-2020, 05:09 AM   #10
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For future reference if you run across another "discounted deal with floor issues", remember how these things are made. The floor is attached to the frame before any walls, furniture, appliance are installed and place on that floor. Properly fixing a floor problem involves extensive labor. The parts may not be much but the cost and time in labor will kill you.
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